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Author Topic: 400th Mass this year.  (Read 1325 times)

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Offline crossbro

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400th Mass this year.
« on: December 29, 2013, 07:07:44 PM »
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    • From December 29 2012 to December 29 2013 I attended 400 masses. This does not include the 4 Communion Services.

    That is what I decided to do for the year of faith.

    TLM= 63
    NO= 337
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    Offline Charlemagne

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    400th Mass this year.
    « Reply #1 on: December 29, 2013, 07:14:38 PM »
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    • Quote from: crossbro


    From December 29 2012 to December 29 2013 I attended 400 masses. This does not include the 4 Communion Services.

    That is what I decided to do for the year of faith.

    TLM= 63
    NO= 337


    So, you received graces 63 times.
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    "This principle is most certain: The non-Christian cannot in any way be Pope. The reason for this is that he cannot be head of what he is not a member. Now, he who is not a Christian is not a member of the Church, and a manifest heretic is not a Christian, as is clearly taught by St. Cyprian, St. Athanasius, St. Augustine, St. Jerome, and others. Therefore, the manifest heretic cannot be Pope." -- St. Robert Bellarmine

    Offline Mithrandylan

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    400th Mass this year.
    « Reply #2 on: December 29, 2013, 07:14:58 PM »
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    • ETA: Charlemagne beat me to it!
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    "Be kind; do not seek the malicious satisfaction of having discovered an additional enemy to the Church... And, above all, be scrupulously truthful. To all, friends and foes alike, give that serious attention which does not misrepresent any opinion, does not distort any statement, does not mutilate any quotation. We need not fear to serve the cause of Christ less efficiently by putting on His spirit". (Vermeersch, 1913).

    Offline crossbro

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    400th Mass this year.
    « Reply #3 on: December 29, 2013, 07:26:09 PM »
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    • Quote from: Charlemagne
    Quote from: crossbro


    From December 29 2012 to December 29 2013 I attended 400 masses. This does not include the 4 Communion Services.

    That is what I decided to do for the year of faith.

    TLM= 63
    NO= 337


    So, you received graces 63 times.


    Beggars cannot be choosers.
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    Offline Charlemagne

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    400th Mass this year.
    « Reply #4 on: December 29, 2013, 07:45:56 PM »
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    • Quote from: crossbro
    Quote from: Charlemagne
    Quote from: crossbro


    From December 29 2012 to December 29 2013 I attended 400 masses. This does not include the 4 Communion Services.

    That is what I decided to do for the year of faith.

    TLM= 63
    NO= 337


    So, you received graces 63 times.


    Beggars cannot be choosers.


    They certainly can if it's a choice between good and evil - or grace and sacrilege.
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    "This principle is most certain: The non-Christian cannot in any way be Pope. The reason for this is that he cannot be head of what he is not a member. Now, he who is not a Christian is not a member of the Church, and a manifest heretic is not a Christian, as is clearly taught by St. Cyprian, St. Athanasius, St. Augustine, St. Jerome, and others. Therefore, the manifest heretic cannot be Pope." -- St. Robert Bellarmine

    Offline Frances

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    400th Mass this year.
    « Reply #5 on: December 29, 2013, 07:48:42 PM »
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    •  :pop:crossbow, I'm afraid your posting is your reward!  
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     St. Francis Xavier threw a Crucifix into the sea, at once calming the waves.  Upon reaching the shore, the Crucifix was returned to him by a crab with a curious cross pattern on its shell.  

    Offline Mithrandylan

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    400th Mass this year.
    « Reply #6 on: December 29, 2013, 08:13:53 PM »
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    • Beggars can't be choosers, true enough.

    But when you attend the NO, you aren't receiving a quarter in place of a twenty dollar bill.  You receive a slap in the face, and inadvertently contribute to slapping God in the face.
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    Offline crossbro

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    400th Mass this year.
    « Reply #7 on: December 29, 2013, 08:37:27 PM »
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    • I don't prefer the NO Mass. Every year I have to make the decision whether or not I will drop it completely. That decision means no daily mass. That might mean slapping God in the face.

    I hope no one thinks it is an easy decision I take lightly.
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    Offline Mithrandylan

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    400th Mass this year.
    « Reply #8 on: December 29, 2013, 08:40:11 PM »
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    • As well you shouldn't, if you are compelled to it out of a sense of duty to God.

    Nevertheless, you are mistaken.  I gather that you have not read the Ottaviani Intervention?  Or any of the major tracts/books against the New Mass?  Once you are informed of the inherent defects in the new order, it will be clear enough that Catholics have no business at the NO.
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    "Be kind; do not seek the malicious satisfaction of having discovered an additional enemy to the Church... And, above all, be scrupulously truthful. To all, friends and foes alike, give that serious attention which does not misrepresent any opinion, does not distort any statement, does not mutilate any quotation. We need not fear to serve the cause of Christ less efficiently by putting on His spirit". (Vermeersch, 1913).

    Offline crossbro

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    400th Mass this year.
    « Reply #9 on: December 29, 2013, 08:48:53 PM »
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    • Quote from: Mithrandylan
    As well you shouldn't, if you are compelled to it out of a sense of duty to God.

    Nevertheless, you are mistaken.  I gather that you have not read the Ottaviani Intervention?  Or any of the major tracts/books against the New Mass?  Once you are informed of the inherent defects in the new order, it will be clear enough that Catholics have no business at the NO.


    The Ottaviani Intervention makes some good points but some unworthy observations. Careless nitpicking innuendo by careless anonymous scholars.

    The abandonment of Latin was a mistake. To accept OI would mean one is obligated to leave the Catholic Church on the assertion the Holy Spirit has abandoned it.

    I know this comment about OI is going to anger many here, but that is just the way I feel about it.
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    Offline Mithrandylan

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    « Reply #10 on: December 29, 2013, 08:52:54 PM »
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    • I can only assume that you haven't read it if that's what you've taken away from it, or at least, haven't read it seriously.

    You seem keen to share.  Formulate your argument for why the Novus Ordo is a valid, Catholic mass (notice that valid and Catholic are distinct) and let us know.
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    Offline crossbro

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    « Reply #11 on: December 29, 2013, 09:17:56 PM »
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    • I would recommend you read Ratzinger's 'Feast of Faith". He speaks about what the root of the problem is. People using liturgy for entertainment instead of worshipping the Real Presence.

    I think as Pope he was moving towards the priest once again facing away from the people and I think it was going to happen in 2014 with recommended changes. Now that we have Francis, heretic I think it is not likely those changes are going to be made.


    Anyway, here are 3 criticisms of OI:

    1) The claim that the Real Presence is not alluded to in NO and "implicitly repudiated" is blatantly false.

    2) In John 6:48, Jesus is quoted as calling the Eucharist "The Bread of Life". The OI claims that this expression in the No is a denigration of transubstantiation.

    3) St Aquinas refers to the Mass as "memoria". Yet the use of the term "memorial' seems to be a problem for OI.

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    Offline Charlemagne

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    « Reply #12 on: December 29, 2013, 09:50:14 PM »
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    • Quote from: crossbro
    2) In John 6:48, Jesus is quoted as calling the Eucharist "The Bread of Life". The OI claims that this expression in the No is a denigration of transubstantiation.


    OI's problem with this wasn't "Bread of Life," but the words "for us" (i.e., "It will become for us the Bread of Life"), the implication being that the bread would become the "Bread of Life" only subjectively, not in reality.
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    "This principle is most certain: The non-Christian cannot in any way be Pope. The reason for this is that he cannot be head of what he is not a member. Now, he who is not a Christian is not a member of the Church, and a manifest heretic is not a Christian, as is clearly taught by St. Cyprian, St. Athanasius, St. Augustine, St. Jerome, and others. Therefore, the manifest heretic cannot be Pope." -- St. Robert Bellarmine

    Offline Mithrandylan

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    « Reply #13 on: December 29, 2013, 09:51:08 PM »
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    • Quote from: crossbro

    I would recommend you read Ratzinger's 'Feast of Faith". He speaks about what the root of the problem is. People using liturgy for entertainment instead of worshipping the Real Presence.

    I think as Pope he was moving towards the priest once again facing away from the people and I think it was going to happen in 2014 with recommended changes. Now that we have Francis, heretic I think it is not likely those changes are going to be made.


    Anyway, here are 3 criticisms of OI:

    1) The claim that the Real Presence is not alluded to in NO and "implicitly repudiated" is blatantly false.

    2) In John 6:48, Jesus is quoted as calling the Eucharist "The Bread of Life". The OI claims that this expression in the No is a denigration of transubstantiation.

    3) St Aquinas refers to the Mass as "memoria". Yet the use of the term "memorial' seems to be a problem for OI.



    That's a problem, but not the root of the problem.

    Have you ever been to a conservative Lutheran parish?  They don't go for entertainment, and their liturgies are often more reverent and as Catholic as the N.O.  Here are a few examples: (start the last one at the 35 minute mark)

    1) Allusion to the Real Presence is optional in the Novus Ordo.  In the first place, in the TLM, there is an offertory, which is an exposition on Catholic doctrine on the mass and an anticipation of the Real Presence.  Comparing the liturgies side by side makes it clear enough, heck, the complete elimination of the offertory makes it clear enough that the Real Presence is, at the very least, being diminished.

    2) Calling it the Bread of Life at the expense of the Real Presence is the problem.  There is nothing inherently problematic with the term "Bread of Life."

    3) Are you paraphrasing an article against the OI?  Because if you had read the Ottaviani intervention, article two makes it clear enough that the problem surrounding "memorial" is regarding the GIRM, which DEFINES the mass as a memorial, when it is principally a sacrifice.

    The Novus Ordo Mass is an hodge-podge of eliminating and diminishing uniquely Catholic doctrine and replacing it with ambiguity meant to be ecuмenical and pleasing to non-Catholics.  It is Cain's sacrifice, not Abel's.
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    Offline Mithrandylan

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    « Reply #14 on: December 29, 2013, 09:53:34 PM »
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    • Quote from: Charlemagne
    Quote from: crossbro
    2) In John 6:48, Jesus is quoted as calling the Eucharist "The Bread of Life". The OI claims that this expression in the No is a denigration of transubstantiation.


    OI's problem with this wasn't "Bread of Life," but the words "for us" (i.e., "It will become for us the Bread of Life"), the implication being that the bread would become the "Bread of Life" only subjectively, not in reality.


    I suspect that Crossbro is paraphrasing some article written by an NO apologist against the OI, which likely is based on a skim reading to pick up "keywords" and formulate arguments against strawmen.
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    "Be kind; do not seek the malicious satisfaction of having discovered an additional enemy to the Church... And, above all, be scrupulously truthful. To all, friends and foes alike, give that serious attention which does not misrepresent any opinion, does not distort any statement, does not mutilate any quotation. We need not fear to serve the cause of Christ less efficiently by putting on His spirit". (Vermeersch, 1913).
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