Author Topic: 400th Mass this year. (Read 2399 times)

Mithrandylan · « **Reply #15 on:** December 29, 2013, 09:58:04 PM »

Quote from: Charlemagne

Quote from: crossbro
2) In John 6:48, Jesus is quoted as calling the Eucharist "The Bread of Life". The OI claims that this expression in the No is a denigration of transubstantiation.

OI's problem with this wasn't "Bread of Life," but the words "for us" (i.e., "It will become for us the Bread of Life"), the implication being that the bread would become the "Bread of Life" only subjectively, not in reality.

An additional problem (and I don't recall if this is enumerated in the OI) with "It will become the "Bread of Life for us..." is that, in the context of not offering the Son to the Father, (which is found in the TLM multiple times) this particular part of the NOM contributes to the athropocentricity of the NOM, centered around the people, rather than around the perpetual offering of the Son to the Father.

crossbro · « **Reply #16 on:** December 29, 2013, 10:03:29 PM »

Quote from: Mithrandylan

Quote from: Charlemagne
Quote from: crossbro
2) In John 6:48, Jesus is quoted as calling the Eucharist "The Bread of Life". The OI claims that this expression in the No is a denigration of transubstantiation.

OI's problem with this wasn't "Bread of Life," but the words "for us" (i.e., "It will become for us the Bread of Life"), the implication being that the bread would become the "Bread of Life" only subjectively, not in reality.

An additional problem (and I don't recall if this is enumerated in the OI) with "It will become the "Bread of Life for us..." is that, in the context of not offering the Son to the Father, (which is found in the TLM multiple times) this particular part of the NOM contributes to the athropocentricity of the NOM, centered around the people, rather than around the perpetual offering of the Son to the Father.

I agree with the argument that NO is a man centered mass and not a God centered mass.

Mithrandylan · « **Reply #17 on:** December 29, 2013, 10:06:50 PM »

Quote from: crossbro

Quote from: Mithrandylan
Quote from: Charlemagne
Quote from: crossbro
2) In John 6:48, Jesus is quoted as calling the Eucharist "The Bread of Life". The OI claims that this expression in the No is a denigration of transubstantiation.

OI's problem with this wasn't "Bread of Life," but the words "for us" (i.e., "It will become for us the Bread of Life"), the implication being that the bread would become the "Bread of Life" only subjectively, not in reality.

An additional problem (and I don't recall if this is enumerated in the OI) with "It will become the "Bread of Life for us..." is that, in the context of not offering the Son to the Father, (which is found in the TLM multiple times) this particular part of the NOM contributes to the athropocentricity of the NOM, centered around the people, rather than around the perpetual offering of the Son to the Father.

I agree with the argument that NO is a man centered mass and not a God centered mass.

Why do you think it's man centered and not God centered?

Charlemagne · « **Reply #18 on:** December 29, 2013, 10:08:35 PM »

Quote from: Mithrandylan

Quote from: Charlemagne
Quote from: crossbro
2) In John 6:48, Jesus is quoted as calling the Eucharist "The Bread of Life". The OI claims that this expression in the No is a denigration of transubstantiation.

OI's problem with this wasn't "Bread of Life," but the words "for us" (i.e., "It will become for us the Bread of Life"), the implication being that the bread would become the "Bread of Life" only subjectively, not in reality.

An additional problem (and I don't recall if this is enumerated in the OI) with "It will become the "Bread of Life for us..." is that, in the context of not offering the Son to the Father, (which is found in the TLM multiple times) this particular part of the NOM contributes to the athropocentricity of the NOM, centered around the people, rather than around the perpetual offering of the Son to the Father.

A perpetual offering indeed, especially when you consider the Offertory: "Accept, O holy Father, almighty and eternal God, this unspotted host..." The TLM is already anticipating the bread becoming the host (hostia, "victim" in Latin). I can't remember who said it, but it was stated that the Offertory is the perfect summation of the meaning of the Mass (or words to that effect).

crossbro · « **Reply #19 on:** December 29, 2013, 10:11:09 PM »

Quote

Have you ever been to a conservative Lutheran parish?

Why do you think I would ever step foot in a Lutheran church ? :really-mad2:

Oh yeah, my mommy is a Lutheran !