Author Topic: 40 Holy Martyrs of Sebaste  (Read 6315 times)

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Offline gladius_veritatis

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40 Holy Martyrs of Sebaste
« on: July 30, 2009, 03:56:04 AM »
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  • From a brief account online:

    According to St. Basil, forty soldiers who had openly confessed themselves Christians were condemned by the prefect to be exposed naked upon a frozen pond near Sebaste on a bitterly cold night, that they might freeze to death. Among the confessors, one yielded and, leaving his companions, sought the warm baths near the lake which had been prepared for any who might prove inconstant. One of the guards set to keep watch over the martyrs beheld at this moment a supernatural brilliancy overshadowing them and at once proclaimed himself a Christian, threw off his garments, and placed himself beside the thirty-nine soldiers of Christ. Thus the number of forty remained complete. At daybreak, the stiffened bodies of the confessors, which still showed signs of life, were burned and the ashes cast into a river. The Christians, however, collected the precious remains, and the relics were distributed throughout many cities; in this way the veneration paid to the Forty Martyrs became widespread, and numerous churches were erected in their honour.
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    Offline gladius_veritatis

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    40 Holy Martyrs of Sebaste
    « Reply #1 on: July 30, 2009, 03:58:47 AM »
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  • I am wondering how those who claim the grace of the sacrament of Baptism cannot ever be received without receiving the actual sacrament itself explain the situation of the 40th martyr.  Thank you.
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    Offline gladius_veritatis

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    40 Holy Martyrs of Sebaste
    « Reply #2 on: July 30, 2009, 04:02:53 AM »
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  • Not that it proves anything in this matter, but it is a fact that any sacrament and the grace thereof are distinct things.  I can receive certain sacraments of the living while in a state of sin, and thus, although I receive the sacrament, I do not receive the grace proper to it.  For example, if I am in a state of sin when I am confirmed, I will not receive the grace of that sacrament until/unless I confess my sins.  Once I have done so, the grace of confirmation, impeded until that time, will flow into my soul.
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    Offline CM

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    40 Holy Martyrs of Sebaste
    « Reply #3 on: July 30, 2009, 05:51:26 AM »
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  • Quote from: gladius_veritatis
    I am wondering how those who claim the grace of the sacrament of Baptism cannot ever be received without receiving the actual sacrament itself explain the situation of the 40th martyr.  Thank you.


    Wasn't baptized?  Wasn't saved.

    Offline gladius_veritatis

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    40 Holy Martyrs of Sebaste
    « Reply #4 on: July 30, 2009, 06:23:35 AM »
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  • There is NO EVIDENCE he received the Sacrament of Baptism, yet his being venerated by Holy Church as a martyr, for centuries at that, is a guarantee that he is in heaven.  I have to get cracking on some work, so I cannot get into it more at the moment.
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    Offline trad123

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    40 Holy Martyrs of Sebaste
    « Reply #5 on: July 30, 2009, 06:51:56 AM »
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  • 2 Corinthians 4:3-4

    And if our gospel be also hid, it is hid to them that are lost, In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of unbelievers, that the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should not shine unto them.

    Offline trad123

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    40 Holy Martyrs of Sebaste
    « Reply #6 on: July 30, 2009, 07:44:40 AM »
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  • 2 Corinthians 4:3-4

    And if our gospel be also hid, it is hid to them that are lost, In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of unbelievers, that the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should not shine unto them.

    Offline gladius_veritatis

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    40 Holy Martyrs of Sebaste
    « Reply #7 on: July 30, 2009, 07:59:08 AM »
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  • Quote from: trad123
    I know you believe in three baptisms, because you follow the teaching of St. Thomas, who by the way died in 1274 before this declaration was made. But now that the Church has spoken, confession of Baptism of Desire and Blood are not allowable.


    I believe there is ONE Sacrament, but THREE ways to receive the grace thereof - the principal one of which is by means of the Sacrament itself.

    May I ask what you think all those censors were doing for the last 500 years and more when they let the Summa Theologiae be printed with what you take to not merely an erroneous, but an heretical, teaching?  We are talking about THE most widely known and used and highly-extolled compendium of Theology in history.  It was placed upon the altar alongside Holy Writ during Trent, for Pete's sake.  I am NOT being an ass, but wondering how you reconcile the centuries-long universal acceptance of the Summa - AS IS - by men who possessed more learning (and piety, in many cases) in their ear lobes than most of us will ever possess put together.
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    Offline gladius_veritatis

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    « Reply #8 on: July 30, 2009, 08:00:10 AM »
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  • Sorry: Please read "...take to be not merely..."
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    Offline trad123

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    « Reply #9 on: July 30, 2009, 09:06:43 AM »
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  • 2 Corinthians 4:3-4

    And if our gospel be also hid, it is hid to them that are lost, In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of unbelievers, that the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should not shine unto them.

    Offline trad123

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    40 Holy Martyrs of Sebaste
    « Reply #10 on: July 30, 2009, 09:57:02 AM »
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  • 2 Corinthians 4:3-4

    And if our gospel be also hid, it is hid to them that are lost, In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of unbelievers, that the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should not shine unto them.


    Offline CMMM

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    40 Holy Martyrs of Sebaste
    « Reply #11 on: July 30, 2009, 11:51:16 AM »
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  • Offline trad123

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    « Reply #12 on: July 30, 2009, 09:19:03 PM »
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  • 2 Corinthians 4:3-4

    And if our gospel be also hid, it is hid to them that are lost, In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of unbelievers, that the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should not shine unto them.

    Offline trad123

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    40 Holy Martyrs of Sebaste
    « Reply #13 on: July 30, 2009, 09:21:02 PM »
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  • Quote from: trad123
    Original sin is not an impediment to being holy as long as that person is baptized, and lives a holy life.


    It should say instead: Being born in original sin is not an impediment to being holy as long as that person is baptized, and lives a holy life.
    2 Corinthians 4:3-4

    And if our gospel be also hid, it is hid to them that are lost, In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of unbelievers, that the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should not shine unto them.

    Offline trad123

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    40 Holy Martyrs of Sebaste
    « Reply #14 on: July 30, 2009, 09:31:49 PM »
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  • And another thing:

    Quote from: trad123
    Quote
    To contradict himself was never a failing of so profoundly philosophic a scholar as the Angel of the Schools.


    And yet he did contradict himself, this shouldn't be shocking as infallibility was not given to theologians, but the pope.


    Seeing as J.D. Bryant's book was published in 1855:

    http://books.google.com/books?id=MagsAAAAYAAJ&dq=J.D.+Bryant+immaculate+conception&printsec=frontcover&source=bl&ots=6NxOfG0eu9&sig=LBeB3sASNXX1zgU8Wiif9rCpCwU&hl=en&ei=2FVySu7xL4_UsQPT7cTYCA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1#v=onepage&q=&f=false

    It was not until 15 years later that papal infallibility was defined by Holy Mother Church:

    Quote
    Vatican Council, Sess. IV, Const. de Ecclesia Christi, c. iv: "We teach and define that it is a dogma Divinely revealed that the Roman pontiff when he speaks ex cathedra, that is when in discharge of the office of pastor and doctor of all Christians, by virtue of his supreme Apostolic authority, he defines a doctrine regarding faith or morals to be held by the universal Church, by the Divine assistance promised to him in Blessed Peter, is possessed of that infallibility with which the Divine Redeemer willed that His Church should be endowed in defining doctrine regarding faith or morals, and that therefore such definitions of the Roman pontiff are of themselves and not from the consent of the Church irreformable."
    2 Corinthians 4:3-4

    And if our gospel be also hid, it is hid to them that are lost, In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of unbelievers, that the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should not shine unto them.

     

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