Author Topic: 3 views on the internet: Amoris Laetitia now in the AAS  (Read 1705 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline GJC

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 563
  • Reputation: +159/-64
  • Gender: Male
Re: 3 views on the internet: Amoris Laetitia now in the AAS
« Reply #15 on: December 06, 2017, 12:39:28 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • But the sedes really have no say in the matter, since they don't believe that the church in Rome, or the Vatican, or the Pope, have anything to do with the Catholic Church or the Catholic faith.

    The Dimonds once attended SSPX chapels. Okay. But they are just laypersons with an opinion. Archbishop Lefebvre was much more than that, so I take his word for the situation.

    I am not at all surprised by this latest turn of events. An idiot conniving modernist pope with few Catholics convictions is trying to make as many progressive changes to the Church while he can. That's how modernism works.

    The sedes can heckle Catholics from the sidelines all they want, but they have left the Church. They have no right to an opinion.
    Curious, you say, "an idiot conniving modernist pope" , "That's how modernism works"

    My question would be: Modernism is defined as heresy by the Catholic Church, right?

    As Catholics, shouldn't we say "an idiot conniving heretic..., and "That's how a false sect works'?





    Offline Meg

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1748
    • Reputation: +768/-799
    • Gender: Female
    Re: 3 views on the internet: Amoris Laetitia now in the AAS
    « Reply #16 on: December 06, 2017, 12:43:52 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!3
  • Curious, you say, "an idiot conniving modernist pope" , "That's how modernism works"

    My question would be: Modernism is defined as heresy by the Catholic Church, right?

    As Catholics, shouldn't we say "an idiot conniving heretic..., and "That's how a false sect works'?

    Sedevacantists say one thing....Catholics say another. I follow ABL's thinking on the matter. 


    Offline GJC

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 563
    • Reputation: +159/-64
    • Gender: Male
    Re: 3 views on the internet: Amoris Laetitia now in the AAS
    « Reply #17 on: December 06, 2017, 12:48:51 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Sedevacantists say one thing....Catholics say another. I follow ABL's thinking on the matter.
    I asked a question, and it wasn't whether sedevacantists are going to hell, as you claim.



    Offline Meg

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1748
    • Reputation: +768/-799
    • Gender: Female
    Re: 3 views on the internet: Amoris Laetitia now in the AAS
    « Reply #18 on: December 06, 2017, 12:56:00 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!1
  • I asked a question, and it wasn't whether sedevacantists are going to hell, as you claim.

    I don't have to answer a question that is a wrong question to ask in the first place.

    Archbishop Lefebvre took the steps that he felt were needed in order to maintain the Catholic priesthood and Tradition. He consecrated four bishops, without a mandate from Rome. This is as far as he went in order to maintain tradition. You'll notice that he did not continually accuse the modernist hierarchy of heresy, nor did he become a sedevacantist. 

    There's a theological way of viewing things, which says that we do not take the most extreme measures when confronted with a serious problem. Canon Hesse explained this very well in a video that I think Incredulous posted a few months ago, but I can't remember the name of the thread.

    It just isn't Catholic to take the most extreme measures possible in dealing with a severe crisis.

    Offline Lastdays

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 488
    • Reputation: +67/-114
    • Gender: Male
    Re: 3 views on the internet: Amoris Laetitia now in the AAS
    « Reply #19 on: December 06, 2017, 01:53:05 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!1
  • I don't have to answer a question that is a wrong question to ask in the first place.

    Heretics always find excuses not to answer questions, such as, "I'm not answering when you format your posts". Then when I demonstrate to the heretic that he formats his posts as well, the heretic responds, "I don't answer questions to posts that are 90% formatted". Now you imitate the heretics when you say "I don't have to answer a question that is a wrong question to ask in the first place." If it was the wrong question, then it should have been easy to refute. Yes, as far as your concerned "it was wrong" because it exposes your false position in the matter. ABL is not the Catholic Church. He was a fallible and heretical Bishop who believed souls could be saved dying in their false religions.

    Quote
    Archbishop Lefebvre took the steps that he felt were needed in order to maintain the Catholic priesthood and Tradition. He consecrated four bishops, without a mandate from Rome. This is as far as he went in order to maintain tradition. You'll notice that he did not continually accuse the modernist hierarchy of heresy, nor did he become a sedevacantist.

    That's because he himself was a heretic. Whether he was truly a material heretic or not is not the concern of a Catholic (God knows). When a Catholic encounters heresy in the external forum, the heretic must prove he not a true heretic. Never should a Catholic give the benefit of the doubt to any heretic. This is the teaching of the Church.


    Quote
    There's a theological way of viewing things, which says that we do not take the most extreme measures when confronted with a serious problem. Canon Hesse explained this very well in a video that I think Incredulous posted a few months ago, but I can't remember the name of the thread. It just isn't Catholic to take the most extreme measures possible in dealing with a severe crisis.

    On the contrary, Catholics are yes and no people. Let your yes be yes and your no be no. Catholics are not luke warm. Jesus vomits the luke warm out of his mouth.



    Catholic Encyclopedia – Heresy, 1913: The Pope himself, if notoriously guilty of heresy, would cease to be Pope because he would cease to be a member of the Church.


    Offline Ladislaus

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 12427
    • Reputation: +6447/-1028
    • Gender: Male
    Re: 3 views on the internet: Amoris Laetitia now in the AAS
    « Reply #20 on: December 06, 2017, 02:27:50 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!1
  • Sedevacantists say one thing....Catholics say another. I follow ABL's thinking on the matter.

    ABL was a sede-doubtist ... just like myself.

    Offline Hermenegild

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 533
    • Reputation: +152/-35
    Re: 3 views on the internet: Amoris Laetitia now in the AAS
    « Reply #21 on: December 06, 2017, 03:23:28 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • ABL was a sede-doubtist ... just like myself.
    What are you doubting exactly? The conclave? If he is accepted by all the Roman clergy then how can you have doubts?

    Offline Meg

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1748
    • Reputation: +768/-799
    • Gender: Female
    Re: 3 views on the internet: Amoris Laetitia now in the AAS
    « Reply #22 on: December 06, 2017, 04:18:36 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • ABL is not the Catholic Church. He was a fallible and heretical Bishop who believed souls could be saved dying in their false religions.

    That's because he himself was a heretic. Whether he was truly a material heretic or not is not the concern of a Catholic (God knows). 

    Typical Pharisede response. 

     :jester:


    Offline Meg

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1748
    • Reputation: +768/-799
    • Gender: Female
    Re: 3 views on the internet: Amoris Laetitia now in the AAS
    « Reply #23 on: December 06, 2017, 04:35:43 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • What are you doubting exactly? The conclave? If he is accepted by all the Roman clergy then how can you have doubts?

    Good questions. I'd like to see the answers.

    Offline Meg

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1748
    • Reputation: +768/-799
    • Gender: Female
    Re: 3 views on the internet: Amoris Laetitia now in the AAS
    « Reply #24 on: December 06, 2017, 04:53:24 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • ABL was a sede-doubtist ... just like myself.


    Is that how +ABL described himself? I don't recall that he did.

    In +ABL's last book, in 1986 (I think it was his last), which was called "Open Letter to Confused Catholics," he wrote this in the last chapter on page 175:

    "I have not ceased repeating that if anyone separates himself from the Pope, it will not be I. The question comes down to this: the power of the Pope within that Church is supreme, but not absolute and limitless, because it is subordinate to the Divine authority which is expressed in Tradition."

    +ABL wrote that he had not ceased to repeat that he will not separate himself from the Pope. Is that what sede-doubtists' believe? Though, of course, sede-doubtism is probably a recently made-up term, and may not have been in existence when +ABL was alive.

    Offline Kreuzritter

    • Newbie
    • *
    • Posts: 110
    • Reputation: +76/-31
    • Gender: Male
    Re: 3 views on the internet: Amoris Laetitia now in the AAS
    « Reply #25 on: December 06, 2017, 06:52:57 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote
    The state of mind, volition... etc. is irrelevant and does not reduce mortal sin to venial.

    That's not what was said, it's contrary to what St. Thomas taught, and its absurd. Of course volition matters. We are only morally responsible for our actions because we are free agents.
    Nevertheless a sin which is generically mortal, can become venial by reason of the imperfection of the act, because then it does not completely fulfil the conditions of a moral act, since it is not a deliberate, but a sudden act, as is evident from what we have said above (Article 2). This happens by a kind of subtraction, namely, of deliberate reason. And since a moral act takes its species from deliberate reason, the result is that by such a subtraction the species of the act is destroyed. http://www.newadvent.org/summa/2088.htm
    What Bergolio is doing is worse than saying that the moral status of an act might be discoverable by pastoral discernment; rather it is to take conditions which in no wise deprive a person of his reason and free will to be "mitigating" based upon the persons judgment of them, which is to relativise morality. Mortal sin is not made venial by good intentions toward some other end, e.g., adultery doesn't become venial because I've judged that not sleeping with my "wife" by remarriage would lead to "marital" problems which will be detrimental to my children.


    Offline Kreuzritter

    • Newbie
    • *
    • Posts: 110
    • Reputation: +76/-31
    • Gender: Male
    Re: 3 views on the internet: Amoris Laetitia now in the AAS
    « Reply #26 on: December 06, 2017, 07:12:15 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!1
  • Three views of AL on the internet, but the most lengthy is that of "Brother Diamond."

    Why should a sedevacantist care about this latest turn of events (which comes as no surprise) when sedevacantists believe that there IS NO MAGISTERUIM? Since they believe it's a completely false church and false pope, then why should they care about what they believe to be a false magisterium?
    Ummm ... presumably because they actually care about people's souls? And this latest news constiutes not only proof that Frankie is a manifest heretic, but it is an unambiguous teaching of heresy through a popes authentic magisterium, which, at the very least if left unchallenged, unrecanted and uncorrected, violates indefectibility?
    There's no wiggle room for a get-out-of-jail-free card here as there arguably is for Vatican II. As a Catholic you HAVE TO submit to this teaching. Canon law DEMANDS that you do. The FSSP can't argue the "hemeneutic of continuity " here, because it's unambiguous. The SSPX can't say that this teaching is just some kind of list of suggestions from a get-together of bishops with the Pope. It's not a private opinion expressed in a letter. It's not an off-the-cuff remark during an interview. It's not a blunder in a sermon. This is the Pope teaching as pope and to the Church. It's AUTHENTIC MAGISTERIUM concerning FAITH AND MORALS, in particular the every nature of morality itself.

    Submit to the pope's teaching.

    Offline Kreuzritter

    • Newbie
    • *
    • Posts: 110
    • Reputation: +76/-31
    • Gender: Male
    Re: 3 views on the internet: Amoris Laetitia now in the AAS
    « Reply #27 on: December 06, 2017, 07:20:46 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!1
  • Archbishop Lefebvre was much more than that, so I take his word for the situation.
    Reject the authoritative teachings of the Pope - argue from authority for the teachings of a lone bishop. Only R&R can be this logically inconsistent.
    If ABL can trump Francis, then Michael and Peter Dimond can trump ABL, particularly when they have the force of the codified deposit of faith and logically sound argument from it on their side.

    Offline Ladislaus

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 12427
    • Reputation: +6447/-1028
    • Gender: Male
    Re: 3 views on the internet: Amoris Laetitia now in the AAS
    « Reply #28 on: December 06, 2017, 07:28:48 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • What are you doubting exactly? The conclave? If he is accepted by all the Roman clergy then how can you have doubts?

    I'll try to explain tomorrow when I have more time.

    Offline Ladislaus

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 12427
    • Reputation: +6447/-1028
    • Gender: Male
    Re: 3 views on the internet: Amoris Laetitia now in the AAS
    « Reply #29 on: December 06, 2017, 07:29:48 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0

  • Is that how +ABL described himself? I don't recall that he did.

    In +ABL's last book, in 1986 (I think it was his last), which was called "Open Letter to Confused Catholics," he wrote this in the last chapter on page 175:

    "I have not ceased repeating that if anyone separates himself from the Pope, it will not be I. The question comes down to this: the power of the Pope within that Church is supreme, but not absolute and limitless, because it is subordinate to the Divine authority which is expressed in Tradition."

    +ABL wrote that he had not ceased to repeat that he will not separate himself from the Pope. Is that what sede-doubtists' believe? Though, of course, sede-doubtism is probably a recently made-up term, and may not have been in existence when +ABL was alive.

    If you look at all of what +Lefebvre wrote, he's a sededoubtists and not a sedeplenist.  I'll explain more tomorrow.

     

    Sitemap 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16