Author Topic: 1968 Episcopal Consecration Rite: Valid or No? (Read 1007 times)

Emerentiana · « **on:** November 06, 2013, 02:20:03 PM »

This subject has been covered before on Cathinfo. This is a new talk given by Fr Cekada on November 1, 2013.

2Vermont · « **Reply #1 on:** November 06, 2013, 03:21:28 PM »

I received this in my email as well. However, it isn't a "new" talk. This was taped in 2011.

Definitely worth a listen to for sure. I believe it is meant to be a quick overview of some of the things Fr Cekada discussed in his writing where he concluded that the New Rite of Episcopal Consecration is invalid:

http://www.traditionalmass.org/images/articles/NewEpConsArtPDF2.pdf?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=68+Episcopal+Consecration+Rite+Fr+Cekada+Video&utm_content=68+Episcopal+Consecration+Rite+Fr+Cekada+Video+CID_fc3e83b1615746d6fa24561703bd5b39&utm_source=Email%20marketing%20software&utm_term=Absolutely%20Null%20and%20Utterly%20Void

which was in response to the SSPX writing concluding the New Rite of Episcopal Consecration is valid:

http://archives.sspx.org/miscellaneous/sedevacantism/validity_of_episcopal_consecrations.pdf

I have read through both of these in detail and it certainly left me with enough positive doubt.

LoverOfTradition · « **Reply #2 on:** November 06, 2013, 05:26:16 PM »

I watched it yesterday after seeing it on Novus Ordo Watch.

It was interesting.

Luker · « **Reply #3 on:** November 06, 2013, 06:01:45 PM »

I too watched this last night. I found it to be quite a good intro to this topic. I will have to sit down at one point and try and read the papers mentioned to get deeper into this topic. It seems like the more I read about the modern crisis, the deeper I go down the rabbithole. There is no end yet in sight...

Luke

Emerentiana · « **Reply #4 on:** November 06, 2013, 07:12:03 PM »

I think its hard for all of us to grasp that the priesthood is gone in the modern Church. It does help to draw a conclusion that the modern Novus Ordo church is not the ttrue Church of Jesus Christ.
Someday a true Vicar of Christ will excommunicate the harlot church, as she did the Anglican church centuries ago.

2Vermont · « **Reply #5 on:** November 07, 2013, 04:38:25 AM »

Quote from: Emerentiana

I think its hard for all of us to grasp that the priesthood is gone in the modern Church. It does help to draw a conclusion that the modern Novus Ordo church is not the ttrue Church of Jesus Christ.
Someday a true Vicar of Christ will excommunicate the harlot church, as she did the Anglican church centuries ago.

We must not forget that there are a number of priests ordained in the Old Rite as a result of this mess.....and that there are still the Eastern Catholic priests (whose rites are valid). Very often we forget that the Church is not just the Latin Rite.

Lover of Truth · « **Reply #6 on:** November 07, 2013, 05:01:24 AM »

Quote from: 2Vermont

Quote from: Emerentiana
I think its hard for all of us to grasp that the priesthood is gone in the modern Church. It does help to draw a conclusion that the modern Novus Ordo church is not the ttrue Church of Jesus Christ.
Someday a true Vicar of Christ will excommunicate the harlot church, as she did the Anglican church centuries ago.

We must not forget that there are a number of priests ordained in the Old Rite as a result of this mess.....and that there are still the Eastern Catholic priests (whose rites are valid). Very often we forget that the Church is not just the Latin Rite.

More and more the Eastern Rites are "updating" their ordination rites. The whole thing is a mess.

ggreg · « **Reply #7 on:** November 07, 2013, 05:15:30 AM »

There's no way to know either way. All we can do is have our suspicions.

If a priest is good and teaches the truth and gives me spiritual food I don't really mind if he is validly ordained or not. What difference does it make to me?

If a NO priest is a clownish fool and my children take that to mean that the Catholic Church is stupid, irrelvant and silly, (which is what happened after Vatican II) then what does it matter that he is validly ordained or not?

The gulf between Trad priests and NO priests is so wide in terms of what I can see and hear and judge for myself that it seems petty to worry about stuff I cannot know like whether an ordaination is valid.

If genetic engineers could make healthy, nutritious grapes grow from a cow's ass or a mushroom covered rotting log and they were biochemically indistinguishable from normal grapes then I would buy them and eat them. I wouldn't sit around debating whether they were valid grapes or not.

2Vermont · « **Reply #8 on:** November 07, 2013, 05:40:44 AM »

Quote from: ggreg

There's no way to know either way. All we can do is have our suspicions.

If a priest is good and teaches the truth and gives me spiritual food I don't really mind if he is validly ordained or not. What difference does it make to me?

If a NO priest is a clownish fool and my children take that to mean that the Catholic Church is stupid, irrelvant and silly, (which is what happened after Vatican II) then what does it matter that he is validly ordained or not?

The gulf between Trad priests and NO priests is so wide in terms of what I can see and hear and judge for myself that it seems petty to worry about stuff I cannot know like whether an ordaination is valid.

If genetic engineers could make healthy, nutritious grapes grow from a cow's ass or a mushroom covered rotting log and they were biochemically indistinguishable from normal grapes then I would buy them and eat them. I wouldn't sit around debating whether they were valid grapes or not.

What difference does it make? You can't be serious.

Valid bishop consecrations = valid priestly ordinations= valid Eucharist and Confessions.

Invalid bishop consecrations=invalid priestly ordinations=invalid Eucharist and confessions.

Without valid holy orders, the priests are just laymen, the Eucharist is just bread, and your sins have not forgiven.