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Author Topic: 1968 Episcopal Consecration Rite: Valid or No?  (Read 847 times)

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Offline Emerentiana

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1968 Episcopal Consecration Rite: Valid or No?
« on: November 06, 2013, 02:20:03 PM »
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  • This subject has been covered before on Cathinfo.  This is a new talk given by Fr Cekada on November 1, 2013.  


    Offline 2Vermont

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    1968 Episcopal Consecration Rite: Valid or No?
    « Reply #1 on: November 06, 2013, 03:21:28 PM »
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  • I received this in my email as well.  However, it isn't a "new" talk. This was taped in 2011.  

    Definitely worth a listen to for sure.  I believe it is meant to be a quick overview of some of the things Fr Cekada discussed in his writing where he concluded that the New Rite of Episcopal Consecration is invalid:

    http://www.traditionalmass.org/images/articles/NewEpConsArtPDF2.pdf?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=68+Episcopal+Consecration+Rite+Fr+Cekada+Video&utm_content=68+Episcopal+Consecration+Rite+Fr+Cekada+Video+CID_fc3e83b1615746d6fa24561703bd5b39&utm_source=Email%20marketing%20software&utm_term=Absolutely%20Null%20and%20Utterly%20Void

    which was in response to the SSPX writing concluding the New Rite of Episcopal Consecration is valid:

    http://archives.sspx.org/miscellaneous/sedevacantism/validity_of_episcopal_consecrations.pdf

    I have read through both of these in detail and it certainly left me with enough positive doubt.
    If any one saith, that the ceremonies, vestments, and outward signs, which the Catholic Church makes use of in the celebration of masses, are incentives to impiety, rather than offices of piety; let him be anathema. - Council of Trent


    Offline LoverOfTradition

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    1968 Episcopal Consecration Rite: Valid or No?
    « Reply #2 on: November 06, 2013, 05:26:16 PM »
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  • I watched it yesterday after seeing it on Novus Ordo Watch.

    It was interesting.

    Offline Luker

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    1968 Episcopal Consecration Rite: Valid or No?
    « Reply #3 on: November 06, 2013, 06:01:45 PM »
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  • I too watched this last night.  I found it to be quite a good intro to this topic.  I will have to sit down at one point and try and read the papers mentioned to get deeper into this topic.  It seems like the more I read about the modern crisis, the deeper I go down the rabbithole.  There is no end yet in sight...


    Luke
    Pray the Holy Rosary every day!!

    Offline Emerentiana

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    1968 Episcopal Consecration Rite: Valid or No?
    « Reply #4 on: November 06, 2013, 07:12:03 PM »
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  • I think its hard for all of us to grasp that the priesthood is gone in the modern Church.  It does help to draw a conclusion that the modern Novus Ordo church is not the ttrue Church of Jesus Christ.
    Someday a true Vicar of Christ will excommunicate the  harlot church, as she did the  Anglican church centuries ago.


    Offline 2Vermont

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    1968 Episcopal Consecration Rite: Valid or No?
    « Reply #5 on: November 07, 2013, 04:38:25 AM »
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  • Quote from: Emerentiana
    I think its hard for all of us to grasp that the priesthood is gone in the modern Church.  It does help to draw a conclusion that the modern Novus Ordo church is not the ttrue Church of Jesus Christ.
    Someday a true Vicar of Christ will excommunicate the  harlot church, as she did the  Anglican church centuries ago.


    We must not forget that there are a number of priests ordained in the Old Rite as a result of this mess.....and that there are still the Eastern Catholic priests (whose rites are valid).  Very often we forget that the Church is not just the Latin Rite.  
    If any one saith, that the ceremonies, vestments, and outward signs, which the Catholic Church makes use of in the celebration of masses, are incentives to impiety, rather than offices of piety; let him be anathema. - Council of Trent

    Offline Lover of Truth

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    1968 Episcopal Consecration Rite: Valid or No?
    « Reply #6 on: November 07, 2013, 05:01:24 AM »
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  • Quote from: 2Vermont
    Quote from: Emerentiana
    I think its hard for all of us to grasp that the priesthood is gone in the modern Church.  It does help to draw a conclusion that the modern Novus Ordo church is not the ttrue Church of Jesus Christ.
    Someday a true Vicar of Christ will excommunicate the  harlot church, as she did the  Anglican church centuries ago.


    We must not forget that there are a number of priests ordained in the Old Rite as a result of this mess.....and that there are still the Eastern Catholic priests (whose rites are valid).  Very often we forget that the Church is not just the Latin Rite.  


    More and more the Eastern Rites are "updating" their ordination rites.  The whole thing is a mess.
    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church

    Offline ggreg

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    1968 Episcopal Consecration Rite: Valid or No?
    « Reply #7 on: November 07, 2013, 05:15:30 AM »
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  • There's no way to know either way.  All we can do is have our suspicions.

    If a priest is good and teaches the truth and gives me spiritual food I don't really mind if he is validly ordained or not.  What difference does it make to me?

    If a NO priest is a clownish fool and my children take that to mean that the Catholic Church is stupid, irrelvant and silly, (which is what happened after Vatican II) then what does it matter that he is validly ordained or not?

    The gulf between Trad priests and NO priests is so wide in terms of what I can see and hear and judge for myself that it seems petty to worry about stuff I cannot know like whether an ordaination is valid.

    If genetic engineers could make healthy, nutritious grapes grow from a cow's ass or a mushroom covered rotting log and they were biochemically indistinguishable from normal grapes then I would buy them and eat them.  I wouldn't sit around debating whether they were valid grapes or not.


    Offline 2Vermont

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    1968 Episcopal Consecration Rite: Valid or No?
    « Reply #8 on: November 07, 2013, 05:40:44 AM »
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  • Quote from: ggreg
    There's no way to know either way.  All we can do is have our suspicions.

    If a priest is good and teaches the truth and gives me spiritual food I don't really mind if he is validly ordained or not.  What difference does it make to me?

    If a NO priest is a clownish fool and my children take that to mean that the Catholic Church is stupid, irrelvant and silly, (which is what happened after Vatican II) then what does it matter that he is validly ordained or not?

    The gulf between Trad priests and NO priests is so wide in terms of what I can see and hear and judge for myself that it seems petty to worry about stuff I cannot know like whether an ordaination is valid.

    If genetic engineers could make healthy, nutritious grapes grow from a cow's ass or a mushroom covered rotting log and they were biochemically indistinguishable from normal grapes then I would buy them and eat them.  I wouldn't sit around debating whether they were valid grapes or not.


    What difference does it make?  You can't be serious.

    Valid bishop consecrations = valid priestly ordinations= valid Eucharist and Confessions.

    Invalid bishop consecrations=invalid priestly ordinations=invalid Eucharist and confessions.

    Without valid holy orders, the priests are just laymen, the Eucharist is just bread, and your sins have not forgiven.

    If any one saith, that the ceremonies, vestments, and outward signs, which the Catholic Church makes use of in the celebration of masses, are incentives to impiety, rather than offices of piety; let him be anathema. - Council of Trent

     

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