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Author Topic: 1962 Missal vs. 1954 and earlier iQuo Primumi  (Read 18011 times)

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Offline Lover of Truth

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1962 Missal vs. 1954 and earlier iQuo Primumi
« Reply #15 on: July 23, 2012, 10:54:11 AM »
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  • It is a good point and well stated as far as it goes, whatever legitimate points may exist to the contrary.

    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church


    Offline Pepsuber

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    1962 Missal vs. 1954 and earlier iQuo Primumi
    « Reply #16 on: July 23, 2012, 02:05:13 PM »
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  • Quote from: Lover of Truth
    And in the practical order, moreover, the changes were transitory. The last batch (1958) stayed in full force only until 1960, when John XXIII issued a new set, intended to tide everyone over till Vatican II overhauled everything.

    ...

    But this is not as simple as it sounds, because before a priest can maintain that the Pius XII legislation alone is legally binding, he must first demonstrate conclusively that John XXIII and Paul VI (at least before the end of 1964) were not true popes.

    These two statements are contradictory. From the point of view of one who considers John XXIII a true Pope, yes, the Pius XII changes to Holy Week were indeed transitory. But if John XXIII was not a true Pope, then the Holy Week changes are truly stable and perpetual since they have not been changed by lawful authority in 54 years. Whether Msgr. Bugnini intended for them to be transitory is beside the point.

    Quote
    The answer is simple: Follow the liturgical rites that existed before the modernists started their tinkering.

    Why don't we apply the same principle to the Breviary?


    Offline Telesphorus

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    1962 Missal vs. 1954 and earlier iQuo Primumi
    « Reply #17 on: July 23, 2012, 02:11:07 PM »
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  • The provisional changes might not have been harmful in themselves.  If we regard them as the tinkerings of a modernist who was practicing for the future transformation, we have reason to reject them.

    Offline Lover of Truth

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    « Reply #18 on: July 23, 2012, 02:34:51 PM »
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  • I'm not sure how to respond to one who suggests that any of the abundant changes from 1955 - 1969 were stable and perpetual so I will not even take a stab at it.

    For those who want to be as fully informed regarding the contraversy as possible I would suggest they read the following article as well:

    http://www.christorchaos.com/PresagingaRevolution.html

    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church

    Offline Nishant

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    « Reply #19 on: July 24, 2012, 12:14:48 PM »
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  • Quote from: Lover of Truth
    It is a good point and well stated as far as it goes, whatever legitimate points may exist to the contrary.


    It's true there may be legitimate points to the contrary, but it appears to me sedes, especially sedes who want to insist the SSPX position is wrong, really shoot themselves in the foot by making them. Because isn't this precisely what they accuse non-sedes of doing, and what they claim can never be done, of "sifting" a Pope's promulgations, laws and discipline? If so, and for whatever reason, they've already conceded in principle not only that it can be done, but that they are themselves inconsistent in the standards they apply. All the more so because obeying Pope Pius XII completely hardly poses any serious dilemma of conscience.
    "Never will anyone who says his Rosary every day become a formal heretic ... This is a statement I would sign in my blood." St. Montfort, Secret of the Rosary. I support the FSSP, the SSPX and other priests who work for the restoration of doctrinal orthodoxy and liturgical orthopraxis in the Church. I accept Vatican II if interpreted in the light of Tradition and canonisations as an infallible declaration that a person is in Heaven. Sedevacantism is schismatic and Ecclesiavacantism is heretical.


    Offline Lover of Truth

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    « Reply #20 on: July 24, 2012, 02:24:24 PM »
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  • Quote from: Nishant2011
    Quote from: Lover of Truth
    It is a good point and well stated as far as it goes, whatever legitimate points may exist to the contrary.


    It's true there may be legitimate points to the contrary, but it appears to me sedes, especially sedes who want to insist the SSPX position is wrong, really shoot themselves in the foot by making them. Because isn't this precisely what they accuse non-sedes of doing, and what they claim can never be done, of "sifting" a Pope's promulgations, laws and discipline? If so, and for whatever reason, they've already conceded in principle not only that it can be done, but that they are themselves inconsistent in the standards they apply. All the more so because obeying Pope Pius XII completely hardly poses any serious dilemma of conscience.


    I'm not sure the comparison between the 1958 liturgy and the 1969 is legitimate.  It is one thing to allow something while you are still alive but severely ill that is not anti-Catholic but perhaps inprudent and quite another to do what Paul 6 did to the Mass, Sacraments and everything else.  It is kind of like trying to compare him to Honorius or Liberius when there is absolutely no comparison between them and the conciliar heads of the new anti-Catholic Church.  

    It anyone has read all the articles I posted I would like to see counter-arguments to what is expressed in those articles as opposed to generalized sweeping comments.

    All that being said, I do not intend to undermine the point you make which is a good one.  

    Piux XII did some strange things.  He was the last thing holding the levy together before the dam broke.  

    Stuff was going on during his reign to be sure.  The termites had infested the place.  

    The articles respond to your object however and I would be interested to know if you actually read the articles.
    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church

    Offline Lover of Truth

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    « Reply #21 on: July 24, 2012, 02:33:29 PM »
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  • 4. Are You “Pope-Sifting”? “How is this distinguishable from the SSPX's "pope sifting"? If we don't draw the line between true popes and false popes, then where do we draw it? It seems we could hardly criticize the SSPX for picking and choosing what they accept from their "pope". Even more frighteningly, must we make the same judgments about earlier popes? What about the liturgical laws of St. Pius X? St. Pius V?”

          The phrase “pope-sifting” originated with Fr. Franz Schmidberger’s statement that one must sift (cribler) the teachings of Vatican II and the post-Conciliar popes in order to separate what is Catholic from what is not Catholic.

    The essence of pope-sifting consists in the ongoing act of private judgment exercised over each teaching and law that emanates from a living Roman Pontiff, coupled with refusal of submission to him. SSPX has made this the fundamental operating principle for its apostolate.

          For those who do not observe the Pius XII liturgical legislation, however, there is no living pope to “sift” or refuse submission to. We merely apply to these laws the same general principle we apply to all other ecclesiastical laws: If because of the post-Vatican II crisis, applying a particular law (e.g., restrictions on delegations for administering sacraments, dimissorial letters for ordinations, permissions for erecting churches, faculties for preaching, requirements for Imprimaturs, etc.) would now have sort of harmful effect, we consider the law to be no longer binding.

          Or put another way: If like SSPX you recognize someone as a living pope, he is your living lawgiver; you are bound to approach him to ask which laws apply to you and how to interpret them. If you are a sedevacantist, however, you have no living lawgiver to approach; when you have a question about whether a law applies or how to interpret it, your only recourse is to follow general principles the canonists have laid down.

    ---

    Again I do not doubt that the contrary opinion could be correct.  I do not think we can lay blame on either side of the issue.  If Pius XII did what Montini did we would have rejected him out of hand as well, so calling us pick and choose SVs is not really a legitimate thing to do.  We do not call the unfortunate things that happened under Pius XII anti-Catholic, but imprudent.  What Montini did was the work of the devil.  What Pius XII allowed would have been okay had we continued to have Catholic Popes who may have ended the experment he allowed or at least stopped the changes right there.  Then there would be no qualms as it would be under the authority of a living Pope.

    I'm not sure all the counter arguments can so readily be dismissed as, well Pius XII allowed so we MUST be stuck during those few years of the liturgy instead of the stability we enjoyed for the 100 previous years.

    Do you see my point.  The Mass was the same during that entire time, Pius V did not change the Mass but codified it.  
    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church

    Offline Hobbledehoy

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    « Reply #22 on: July 24, 2012, 09:43:59 PM »
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  • How the Faithful of the Sedevacantist Persuasion Ought to Regard the Restored Order of Holy Week
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    Prefatory Remarks


    It is to be known that the simple layman who has written the following notes does not intend to pretend to have the canonical training that is proper to Priests―much less the education prerequisite for the licentiates and doctorates that had enabled clerics to officially teach in oral or written discourse as theologians, canonists and rubricists of happier ages—knowing well that he is bereft of the competence to issue definitive declarations and the authority to bind individual consciences thereto, which prerogatives are proper to the Apostolic See alone. However, if it was the harlot Rahab whom our Lord God chose as the instrumentality by which the children of Israel took possession of the Promised Land (Josue ch. ii-vi; Heb. ch. xi., 31; S. James ch. ii., 25) and so was found worthy to be mentioned in the sacred Genealogy of our Lord (St. Matt. ch. i., 5), so may this vilest amongst sinners, with the help of holy grace and the loving patronage of the Blessed Virgin Mary, the Sedes sapientiæ,[1] help the servants and handmaidens of Jesus and Mary to attain to some clarity and equilibrium regarding these matters, relying solely on divine assistance and presuming not on any defective faculties proper to himself.

    It would be better for the reader to be forthwith cognizant of the conclusion whereto the following notes arrive: the safest and most decorous course of thought and action for an individual Catholic to take in these tumultuous times is that of prayerful humility and obedience to the doctrinal teachings and disciplinary decrees of Holy Mother Church. To place individual and private opinions and sentiments as normative principles in preference to legislation promulgated by lawful authority―especially in matters of great moment―would be antithetical to the sensus Catholicus that schismatics and heretics scruple not to violate in the excess of pride and vainglory. Such a course of thought and action would not only be repugnant to the Lord God―Who in the multitude of His ineffable loving-kindnesses established for our sakes the holy Apostles together with their successors, subject to the supreme primacy and guided by the dogmatic infallibility of St. Peter and his successors, as rulers and Pastors of Holy Mother Church[2]―but it may also bring about a very great peril for souls, as demonstrated by the histories of the schismatic and heretical sects that have plagued Christendom throughout the ages. The reader, therefore, would do well to be mindful of the fact that there need be no apology against polemicists and critics for adhering to the legislation promulgated by authority of the Roman Pontiff: indeed, for a Catholic the very idea of defending filial obedience to the Apostolic See against other Catholics is a bewildering absurdity.

    In order to arrive at a correct understanding of this conclusion as it applies to the esteem Catholics of the sedevacantist persuasion are to entertain for the Restored Order of Holy Week, the reader must consider the nature and the binding force of the General Decree that promulgated the Restored Order of Holy Week in the light of the dogma of the primacy and infallibility of the Roman Pontiff and the principles of liturgical law. It has been a great misunderstanding of these matters that has primarily contributed to the multiplicity and gravity of the errors that traditionalist polemicists have committed and propagated in the controversies that have arisen regarding the reforms of the late Pope Pius XII, particularly the Restored Order of Holy Week.

    The exigencies of circuмstance and the paucity of time prevent the author from treating these important matters in their appropriate depth and detail. For the present time, these few notes will have to suffice, leaving to better minds and hearts the task of composing and publishing treatises more worthy of this sublime and grave matter.

    The Nature and Binding Force of the General Decree Maxima redemptionis nostrae mysteria of the Sacred Congregation of Rites


    The Restored Order of Holy Week was promulgated by the General Decree of the Congregation of Sacred Rites Liturgicus Hebdomadae Sanctae ordo instauratur (Maxima redemptionis nostrae mysteria) together with the Instruction De ordine Hebdomadae Sanctae instaurato rite peragendo (cuм propositum) on 16 November 1955.[3] This very fact alone should have obviated any controversy or confusion regarding the question raised by certain traditionalist polemicists of whether or not to observe the Restored Order of Holy Week. For the principles of liturgical law―that is, “that part of Divine and Canon Law that concerns the Sacred Liturgy, i.e., the worship of God by the Church”[4]―forbid any individual to pronounce opinions involving any interpretation or application of principles of Canon Law contrary to this and all other General Decrees of the Congregation of Sacred Rites.  

    The Authority of the Roman Pontiff in Matters Liturgical


    The Code of Canon Law, promulgated by Pope Benedict XV in the Apostolic Constitution Providentissima Mater (27 May 1917),[5] declares that “it belongs to the Holy See to regulate the Sacred Liturgy as well as to approve liturgical books.”[6] It is to preserve the integrity of the Sacred Liturgy that the Apostolic See has been given supreme authority over it, as Pope Pius XI teaches in the Apostolic Constitution Divini cultus (20 December 1928):[7] “Since the Church has received from her founder, Christ, the duty of guarding the holiness of divine worship, surely it is part of the same, of course after preserving the substance of the sacrifice and the sacraments, to prescribe the following: ceremonies, rites, formulas, prayers, chants―by which that august and public ministry is best controlled, whose special name is Liturgy, as if an exceedingly sacred action.”[8] Citing the above-mentioned Canon in his celebrated Encyclical Letter Mediator Dei (20 November 1947),[9] Pope Pius XII makes it clear that “the Sovereign Pontiff alone enjoys the right to recognize and establish any practice touching the worship of God, to introduce and approve new rites, as also to modify those he judges to require modification.”[10] This is because the Roman Pontiff “is the shepherd and teacher of the faithful, and has by divine right and delegation the primacy of jurisdiction, being successor de jure and de facto of S. Peter, so that he is the supreme lawgiver in the Church, jurisdiction being the power of ruling subjects in matters over which the Superior has control.”[11] It is as Pope Eugenius IV had taught in the Bull Laetentur coeli (6 July 1439): “We likewise define that the holy Apostolic See, and the Roman Pontiff, hold the primacy throughout the entire world; and that the Roman Pontiff himself is the successor of blessed Peter, the chief of Apostles, and the true vicar of Christ, and that he is the head of the entire Church, and the father and teacher of all Christians; and that full power was given to him in blessed Peter by Our Lord Jesus Christ, to feed, rule, and govern the universal Church.”[12] Moreover, regarding the supreme and absolute primacy of the Roman Pontiff, the sacred Vatican Council in its fourth session (18 July 1870) defined that “the pastors and the faithful of whatever rite and dignity, both as separate individuals and all together, are bound by the duty of hierarchical subordination and true obedience, not only in things which pertain to faith and morals, but also in those which pertain to the discipline and government of the Church.”[13] Those who have the audacity to deny this have been solemnly anathematized by the same holy Council,[14] for it is “the doctrine of Catholic truth from which no one can deviate and keep his faith and salvation.”[15] The Code of Canon Law has affirmed this absolute and universal jurisdiction of the Sovereign Pontiff in the selfsame words that the Vatican Council employed to define this dogma.[16]

    The Authority of the Congregation of Sacred Rites


    Although at times availing himself of this authority directly through such docuмents as an Encyclical Letter or a Motu Proprio, the Roman Pontiff ordinarily legislates in liturgical matters through the Roman Congregations, particularly through the Congregation of Sacred Rites (Sacrorum Rituum Congregatio).[17] Pope Pius XII, in his above-mentioned Encyclical Letter, states that his predecessor Pope Sixtus V in the Apostolic Constitution Immensa aeterni (22 January 1588) established the Congregation of Sacred Rites “when private initiative in matters liturgical threatened to compromise the integrity of faith and devotion, to the great advantage of heretics [of the 16th Century Protestant revolt] and further spread their errors” and it was therefore “charged with the defense of the legitimate rites of the Church and with the prohibition of any spurious innovation.”[18] This Sacred Congregation, according to the Code of Canon Law, “has the right of watching over and determining all that immediately concerns the sacred rites and ceremonies of the Latin Church” and “is its concern, especially, to see that the sacred rites and ceremonies are diligently observed in celebrating Mass, in administering the Sacraments, in the carrying out of the divine offices, in fine, in all that regards the worship of the Latin Church.”[19] The decrees of the Congregation of Sacred Rites, “when drawn up in due form and duly promulgated,” have the authority of the Sovereign Pontiff, “even if they had not been referred to him.”[20] When a decree is “drawn up in writing and signed by the Cardinal Prefect of the Congregation and its Secretary, and furnished with the seal of the Congregation” it is considered authentic, and therefore possessed of binding force.[21] Furthermore, when a decree, both in its content and form, concerns the entire Latin Church, it is a formally general decree, which is of obligation for all who follow the Roman Rite.[22]

    The Authority of the General Decree Promulgating the Restored Order of Holy Week


    The General Decree Maxima redemptionis nostrae mysteria, together with its accompanying Instruction cuм propositum, fulfills the requisites of an authentic decree, being signed by His Eminence Gateano Cardinal Cicognani, Prefect of the Congregation of Sacred Rites, and by His Eminence Alfonso Cardinal Carinci, titular Archbishop of Seleucia in Isauria, and Secretary of the same Roman Congregation. It is clear that the Decree is formally general as its very text demonstrates: “Those who follow the Roman Rite are bound in the future to follow the Restored Order of Holy Week, set forth in the original Vatican edition.[23] All things to the contrary notwithstanding.”[24] Not only is the General Decree of 16 November 1955 binding on all who follow the Roman Rite by reason of its authentic and formally general nature, but the fact that it is endowed with the authority of the Supreme Pontiff is made abundantly clear by the fact that it was promulgated by express command of the late Holy Father himself: “by special mandate of Our Most Holy Lord the Pope, by Divine Providence, Pius XII, the Congregation of Sacred Rites decrees that which follows.”[25] This is to be expected, since the endeavor to restore the Rites of Holy Week was conceived by the paternal solicitude of this same Holy Father, as the General Decree states: “Our Most Holy Lord Pope Pius XII commanded the Commission for the Restoration of the Liturgy, established by the same Most Holy Lord, to examine this question of restoring the Order of Holy Week and propose a solution.”[26]

    Considering all these things, together with the principles of liturgical law and in light of the ecclesiastical primacy and sovereignty of the Roman Pontiff as defined by the sacred Vatican Council and declared by Canon Law, there can be no doubt that the rites of Holy Week as found in the old Officium Majoris Hebdomadae and the Memoriale Rituum have been abolished. Furthermore, those who are bound to the Roman Missal and Breviary by virtue of the Bulls Quo primum (14 July 1570) and Quod a nobis (9 July 1568) of Pope St. Pius V and by the Bull Divino afflatu (1 November 1911)[27] of Pope St. Pius X cannot lawfully avail themselves of them as they are bound in conscience to observe the rites of Holy Week as found in the typical edition of the Ordo Hebdomadae Sanctae instauratus.

    Present Day Abuses of Clerics Exceeding their Competence in this Matter


    Since the Apostolic See has exclusive and absolute authority over liturgical matters, no Ordinary in virtue of his own authority and competence can presume “to abrogate, dispense from, or give an authentic interpretation of, such laws.”[28] On the contrary, as the Code of Canon Law states and as Pope Pius XII has reiterated in his Encyclical Letter Mediator Dei, the Ordinaries “have the right and duty carefully to watch over the exact observance of the prescriptions of the sacred canons respecting divine worship.”[29] “Private individuals, therefore,” continues the late Roman Pontiff in his celebrated Encyclical Letter, “even though they be clerics, may not be left to decide for themselves in these holy and venerable matters” and, moreover, “no private person has any authority to regulate external practices of this kind, which are intimately bound up with Church discipline and with the order, unity, and concord of the Mystical Body and frequently even with the integrity of the Catholic faith itself.”[30] This is especially pertinent to the present-day traditionalist clerics, being bereft of ordinary or delegated jurisdiction together with its concomitant privileges and prerogatives. All that the present-day “independent” clerics can claim is supplied jurisdiction given by the Church in the various individual instances wherein acts that are necessary for the spiritual welfare of the faithful need to be performed in both the internal and external fora, solely relying on the prudent application of the principles of epikeia— lest they risk exacerbating their problematic Canonical predicament wherein they have, strictly speaking, no proper ecclesiastical office since they lack the requisite Canonical mission.[31] The clerics of the present day, therefore, may not in any way presume to deviate from the disciplinary decrees that have been promulgated by the late Holy Father and the Roman Congregations that availed themselves of his supreme authority, especially considering that lawfully appointed Ordinaries had been forbidden such measures. That the clerics of the present day presume to do that which was forbidden to the Ordinaries who had lawfully governed dioceses and communities by the authority of the late Pope is as perplexing as it is disheartening.

    Those clerics of the present day who pertinaciously advocate the observance of the abolished rites of Holy Week as found in the Officium Majoris Hebdomadae and the Memoriale Rituum can be said to be rebuked by Pope Pius XII in the words of his abovementioned Encyclical Letter: “The temerity and daring of those who introduce novel liturgical practices, or call for the revival of obsolete rites out of harmony with prevailing laws and rubrics, deserve reproof.”[32] Moreover, the late Supreme Pontiff declares that “ancient usage must not be esteemed more suitable and proper, either in its own right or in its significance for later times and new situations, on the simple ground that it carries the savor and aroma of antiquity.”[33] “The more recent rites,” continues the Holy Father, “likewise deserve reverence and respect. They too owe their inspiration to the Holy Spirit, Who assists the Church in every age even to the consummation of the world [S. Matt. ch. xxviii., 20]. They are equally the resources used by the majestic Spouse of Jesus Christ to promote and procure the sanctity of men.”[34] Just as no Catholic in his right mind would reject “the formulation of Christian doctrine more recently elaborated and proclaimed as dogmas of the Church […] because it pleases him to hark back to old formulas,” so “as obviously unwise and mistaken is the zeal of one who in matters liturgical, would go back to the rites and usage of antiquity, discarding the new patterns introduced by disposition of Divine Providence to meet the changes of circuмstance and situation.”[35] Such a course of thought and action, as the Holy Father teaches, ultimately leads clerics, together with the layfolk who follow them, “to revive the exaggerated and senseless antiquarianism to which the illegal Council of Pistoia gave rise,” and succuмb to the grave errors that “tend to paralyze and weaken the process of sanctification by which the sacred Liturgy directs the sons of adoption to their Heavenly Father for their souls’ salvation.”[36] Sadly, this calamity, of which the late Pope attempted so earnestly to warn clerics and layfolk in his paternal solicitude and loving-kindness, has become the harrowing reality of the present age amongst the majority of traditionalist clerics and faithful.[37]

    “Let no one,” the late Pope Pius XII declares, “arrogate himself the right to make regulations and impose them on others at will.”[38] For the Apostolic See alone is the Iuris Liturgici suprema moderatrix, the supreme moderatress of liturgical law.[39] The authority that promulgated the Restored Order of Holy Week is none other than that of the Apostolic See, that of the Supreme Pontiff himself, which no Christian can refuse to obey if he wishes to profess inviolate the Catholic faith. It would be most apt to remind the reader of the solemn words of Pope Boniface VIII: “Furthermore, We declare, say, define and pronounce as entirely necessary for salvation for all human creatures to be subject unto the Roman Pontiff.”[40] Those who advocate disobedience and rejection of the decrees promulgated by the authority and express command of the late Holy Father ought to carefully consider and meditate upon these words, that they may discern what spirit animates their zeal for the integrity of the Sacred Liturgy.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

       
    Appendix A


    All clerics of the Roman Rite are bound in conscience to adhere to the Restored Order of Holy Week promulgated by the General Decree of the Congregation of Sacred Rites Maxima redemptionis nostrae mysteria with its accompanying Instruction cuм propositum. It would be absurd to argue the contrary from the principles of customary law and precedents of usages contra legem. Establishing a real custom contrary to existing liturgical legislation is difficult “because of the resistance of the Holy See, owing to its desire for uniformity in matters liturgical.”[41] Furthermore, the Congregation of Sacred Rites in its decisions “admits the force of custom only in minor matters and for particular cases” and “it seldom approves of a general usage contrary to the rubrics.”[42] Moreover, those decrees of the Congregation of Sacred Rites “which expressly oppose existing usages, at once abolish these (and this even if they are immemorial) for they prevent the consent of the legislator which alone can change a usage into a custom.”[43] Such abuses did indeed exist before the present crisis of Holy Mother Church: “Not infrequently, in practice, usages contrary to the rubrics are defended on the ground that they are ‘customs.’ Quite often such usages are not only not customs―for they do not possess the qualities which are required to create customary law, i.e. , reasonableness and the requisite age, together with the absence of resistance on the part of the legislator―but are abuses which should be suppressed.”[44] There can be no Catholic possessed of reason and sense who can seriously entertain the notion that the observance of the abolished Holy Week Rites as found in the Officium Majoris Hebdomadae and the Memoriale Rituum during the present interregnum (that is, according to the understanding of the sedevacantists) can lawfully constitute a custom, nor can anyone pretend that the clerics of our age have the authority to sanction such an abuse in any other way.

    Appendix B


    Whosoever were the clerics in the Liturgical Commission whose recommendations contributed to the latest liturgical reforms is of no consequence whatsoever. What is of consequence is that the Sacred Congregation of Rites has the authority of the Supreme Pontiff in liturgical matters. Just as no one seems to care about the fact the reformed Roman Psalter of Pope St. Pius X was not actually his, but the schema of the forgotten and unsung Rev. Father Paschal Brugnani, so Catholics should not pay mind to the fact that the above-mentioned Roman Congregation availed itself of the services of certain clerics who later were found to be modernists and who worked to establish a pseudo-liturgy antithetically opposed to the divine Offices of Holy Mother Church. To believe that a band of covert heretics can be so successful in implementing their novelties in the Sacred Liturgy of the Roman Rite to the detriment of faith, morals and the spiritual welfare of the faithful, is essentially to deny the moral inerrancy of the Apostolic See in matters of ecclesiastical discipline.

    Appendix C


    It is absurd to base one’s decisions, especially if they are of great moment, on past and future contingencies which can never be the proper object of a created intellect. The argument set forth in certain tracts that the late Holy Father would have rescinded his liturgical reforms had he known their supposed consequences, and that clerics are thereby allowed to return to the abolished rubrics and ceremonies of the reformed liturgical books, betrays an ignorance of catastrophic magnitude — it is ultimately an irresponsible and ignorant historiography, based upon contingencies absolutely incognoscible to created intellects. Ultimately, one must conclude that the machinations of subversive clerics working in the Liturgical Commission of Pope Pius XII were foiled because the Roman Rite never became what they intended to make of it: whatever happened after the death of the late Pope Pius XII should be of no consequence whatsoever to the faithful of the sedevacantist persuasion, as all such acts are null and void by reason of the vacancy of the Apostolic See according to the opinion of these same Catholics. The august dignity and divinely-bestowed authority of the Supreme Pontiff is such that these historical details are reduced to mere footnotes and have no importance or relevance to the matter. The intention of certain modernistic clerics notwithstanding, the infallibility of the Apostolic See guarantees that the latest liturgical legislation is free from all moral and theological error.

    The burden of writing apologias and of constructing ingenious arguments falls upon those who advocate rejection of the decrees promulgated by the Apostolic See. The above notes did not intend to address any particular missive of this category, or any author thereof. Those clerics who have advocated disobedience and rejection of the most recent liturgical reforms promulgated by the Apostolic See present a very quizzical problem. Although their position is erroneous, and even scandalous and pastorally devastating when considered in itself, particularly when these clerics err grievously in the interpretation and application of principles of Canon Law as well as when they avail themselves of expressions which are impudent and puerile, the reader would do well to assume that they are animated with a zeal, although misguided, for the integrity of the Roman Missal and Breviary and therefore are to be considered as erring in good faith. However, those clerics who are neither canonically fit nor trained and those whose Orders are of dubious origin, as well as lay-folk exceeding the competence proper to their station in writing about matters they are incapable of understanding without the necessary guidance that such clerics are unable to provide, who attack the decrees of the Apostolic See with an ignorance and arrogance that betray a schismatical and heretical mentality, are to be confuted and rebuked with a salutary severity, yet ever moderated by charity and purity of intention.[/size]


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    Annotations
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    [1]Litaniæ Lauretanæ Beatæ Mariæ Virginis, Rituale Romanum, Tit. XI, cap. iii. (Romæ: Typis Polyglottis Vaticanis, 1954).
    [2] Cf. Missale Romanum, Præfatio de Apostolis: “Vere dignum et justum est, æquum et salutare: Te Domine, suppliciter exorare, ut gregem tuum, Pastor æterne, non deseras: sed per beatos Apostolos tuos continua protectione custodias: Ut iisdem rectoribus gubernetur, quos operis tui vicarios eidem contulisti præesse pastores.
    [3]Acta Apostolicae Sedis, vol. xlvii [1955], p. 838-847.
    [4] Rev. Father J.B. O’Connell, The Celebration of Mass: A Study of the Rubrics of the Roman Missal (Milwaukee, WI: The Bruce Publishing Company, 1956; Imprimatur: + Albert G. Meyer, Archbishop of Milwaukee, 27 April 1956), p. 6
    [5] A.A.S., vol. IX, pars II [1917].
    [6] Can. 1257: “Unius Apostolicae Sedis est tum sacram ordinare liturgiam, tum liturgicos approbare libros;” cited in Rev. Father Richard Stapper’s Catholic Liturgics (trans. Rev. Father David Baier. Paterson, NJ: St. Anthony Guild Press, 1938; Imprimatur: + Patrick Cardinal Hayes, Archbishop of New York, 1 November 1935), p. 34.
    [7 ]A.A.S., vol. xxi. [1929], pp. 33-41.
    [8] Rev. Father Henry Denzinger, Enchiridion Symbolorum, definitionum et declarationum de rebus fidei et morum (Barcelona: Herder, 1957; Imprimatur: + Gregory Bishop of Barcelona, 29 September 1950),  no. 2200.
    [9]A.A.S., vol. xxxix [1947], p. 521-595.
    [10] “Quamobrem uni Summo Pontifici ius est quemlibet de divino cultu agendo morem recognoscere ac statuere, novos inducere ac probare ritus, eosque etiam immutare, quos quidem immutandus iudicaverit.
    [11] Rev. Father Henry Davis, S.J., Moral and Pastoral Theology (London, New York: Sheed & Ward, 1958; Imprimatur: + John Henry, Archbishop of Portsmouth, 4 May 1957), vol. 1, p. 149.
    [12] Denzinger, no. 694.
    [13] Denzinger, no. 1827. Dogmatic Constitution I of the Church of Christ Pastor aeternus (Acta Sanctæ Sedis, vol. vi. [1870-71], pp. 40 sqq.).
    [14] Denzinger, no. 1831: “Si quis itaque dixerit, Romanum Pontificem habere tantummodo officium inspectionis vel directionis, non autem plenam et supremam potestatem iurisdictionis in universam Ecclesiam, non solum in rebus, quae ad fidem et mores, sed etiam in iis, quae ad disciplinam et regimen Ecclesiae per totum orbem diffusae pertinent; aut eum habere tantum potiores partes, non vero totam plenitudinem huius supremae potestatis; aut hanc eius potestatem non esse ordinariam et immediatam sive in omnes ac singulas ecclesias, sive in omnes et singulos pastores et fideles; anathema sit.
    [15] Denzinger, no. 1827.
    [16] Can. 218, § 1: “Romanus Pontifex, Beati Petri in primatu Successor, habet non solum primatum honoris, sed supremam et plenam potestatem iurisdictionis in universam Ecclesiam tum in rebus quae ad fidem et mores, tum in iis quae ad disciplinam et regimen Ecclesiae per totum orbem diffusae pertinent.
    [17] Rev. Father O’Connell, op. cit., p. 6.
    [18] “Atque ita factum est ut, cuм saeculo XVI id genus usus ac consuetudines nimis magis increvissent, cuмque hac in re privatorum incepta fidei pietatisque integritatem in discrimen inducerent, magno cuм haereticorum profectu magnaque cuм eorum fallaciae errorisque propagatione, tum Decessor Noster imm. mem. Sixtus V, ut legitimos Ecclesiae ritus defenderet, ab iisdemque quidquid impurum inductum fuisset prohiberet, anno MDLXXXVIII Sacrum constituit tuendis ritibus Consilium; ad quod quidem institutum nostra etiam aetate ex credito munere pertinet ea omnia vigilanti cura ordinare ac decernere, quae ad sacram Liturgiam spectent.
    [19] Can. 253, §§ 1, 2: “Congregatio Sacrorum Rituum ius habet videndi et statuendi ea omnia quae sacros ritus et caeremonias Ecclesiae Latinae proxime spectant [...] ejus proinde est praesertim advigilare, ut sacri ritus ac caeremoniae diligenter serventur in Sacro celebrando, in Sacramentis administrandis, in divinis officiis persolvendis, in iis denique omnibus quae Ecclesiae Latinae cultum respiciunt.” cited by Rev. Father O’Connell, op. cit., p. 26. The scope of the jurisdiction and labors of the S.R.C. also embrace the beatification and canonization of the Servants of God, among other important matters (Can. 253, § 3).
    [20] Rev. Father O’Connell, op. cit., p. 26.
    [21] Ibid.
    [22] Ibid., pp. 27, 28.
    [23] “Qui ritum romanum sequuntur, in posterum servare tenentur Ordinem hebdomadae sanctae instauratum, in editione typica Vaticana descriptum” (No. 1).
    [24] “Contrariis quibuslibet minime obstantibus.
    [25] “Quapropter, de speciali mandato eiusdem Ssmi D. N. Pii divina Providentia Papae XII, Sacra Rituum Congregatio ea quae sequuntur statuit.
    [26] “Ssmus D. N. Pius Papa XII mandavit ut Commissio instaurandae liturgiae, ab eodem Ssmo Domino constituta, quaestionem hanc de Ordine hebdomadae sanctae instaurando examinaret et conclusionem proponeret.” The supposition set forth by certain polemicists who contend that the Restored Order of Holy Week was enacted without the knowledge or consent of the late Holy Father, or that he was somehow fooled into sanctioning it, is therefore utterly absurd.
    [27] A.A.S., vol. iii. [1911], pp. 633 sqq.
    [28] Rev. Father O’Connell, op. cit., p. 37; cf. Can. 1257.
    [29] “Episcopis autem ius et officium est vigilare diligenter ut sacrorum canonum praescripta de divino cultu sedulo observentur;” cf. Can. 1261, § 1: “Locorum Ordinarii advigilent ut sacrorum canonum praescripta de divino cultu sedulo observentur.
    [30]“Haud igitur fas est privatorum arbitrio, etsi iidem ex Cleri ordine sint, sacras atque venerandas res illas permittere, quae ad religiosam christianae societatis vitam pertineant, itemque ad Iesu Christi sacerdotii exercitium divinumque cultum, ad debitum sanctissimae Trinitati, Incarnato Verbo, eius Genitrici augustae ceterisque caelitibus honorem reddendum, et ad hominum salutem procurandam attineant; eademque ratione privato nemini ulla facultas est externas hoc in genere actiones moderari, quae cuм Ecclesiastica disciplina et cuм Mystici Corporis ordine, unitate ac concordia, immo haud raro cuм catholicae etiam fidei integritate coniungantur quam maxime.
    [31] Cf. Can. 147 “§ 1. Officium ecclesiasticuм nequit sine provisione canonica valide obtineri. § 2. Nomine canonicae provisionis venit concessio officii ecclesiastici a competente auctoritate ecclesiastica ad normam sacrorum canonum facta.
    [32] “Verumtamen temerarius eorum ausus omnino reprobandus est, qui novas deliberato consilio liturgicas consuetudines invehant, vel obsoletos iam ritus reviviscere iubeant, qui cuм vigentibus legibus ac rubricis non concordent.” Although the Pope here speaks of those foolhardy scholars who pretended to justify proposed modernistic liturgical innovations with groundless appeals to archeology and history, nothing forbids the application of these words to those who attempt to revive the rubrics and ceremonies abolished by the decrees of Congregation of Sacred Rites. Polemicists who would argue otherwise―because they erroneously hold that the late Holy Father contradicted himself by allowing the very reforms that these words of Mediator Dei condemn―seem to suggest that these words would actually apply to the reforms promulgated by the same Roman Congregation, which is a heretical and perilous notion to entertain. It ultimately constitutes an implicit denial of the inerrancy of the Apostolic See in matters of ecclesiastical discipline, thereby indirectly attacking the dogma of the infallibility Roman Pontiff as defined by the sacred Vatican Council.
    [33] “Verumtamen vetus usus, non idcirco dumtaxat quod antiquitatem sapit ac redolet, aptior ac melior existimandus est vel in semet ipso, vel ad consequentia tempora novasque rerum condiciones quod attinet.
    [34] “Recentiores etiam liturgici ritus reverentia observantiaque digni sunt, quoniam Spiritus Sancti afflatu, qui quovis tempore Ecclesiae adest ad consummationem usque saeculorum, orti sunt; suntque iidem pariter opes, quibus melita Iesu Christi Sponsa utitur ad hominum sanctitatem excitandam procurandamque.
    [35] “Quemadmodum enim e catholicis cordatus nemo, eo consilio ductus ut ad veteres revertat formulas, a prioribus Conciliis adhibitas, illas respuere potest de christiana doctrina sententias, quas Ecclesia, adspirante moderanteque divino Spiritu, recentiore aetate, ubere cuм fructu, composuit retinendasque decrevit; itemque quemadmodum e catholicis cordatus nemo vigentes leges repudiare potest, ut ad praescripta regrediatur, quae ex antiquissimis hauriantur canonici iuris fontibus; ita pari modo, cuм de sacra Liturgia agitur, qui ad antiquos redire ritus consuetudinesque velit, novas repudiando normas, quae ex providentis Dei consilio ob mutatas rerum condiciones fuere inductae, non is procul dubio, ut facile cernere est, sapienti rectoque movetur studio.
    [36] “Haec enim cogitandi agendique ratio nimiam illam reviviscere iubet atque insanam antiquitatum cupidinem, quam illegitimum excitavit-Pistoriense concilium, itemque multiplices illos restituere enititur errores, qui in causa fuere, cur conciliabülum idem cogeretur, quique inde non sine magno animorum detrimento consecuti sunt, quosque Ecclesia, cuм evigilans semper exsistat «fidei depositi» custos sibi a divino Conditore concrediti, iure meritoque reprobavi! Etenim prava id genus proposita atque incepta eo contendunt, ut actionem illam exténuent ac débilitent, sanctitatis effectricem, qua sacra Liturgia -adoptionis filios ad caelestem Patrem salutariter dirigit.
    [37] Although it is beyond the scope of these notes to treat of this critical topic, it would not be out of place to briefly explain how certain attitudes manifested by certain polemicists who pertinaciously reject the disciplinary decrees promulgated by the Apostolic See can lead to errors against faith and morals. If the faithful are taught that the General Decrees of the Roman Congregations can be disobeyed by appealing to complex argumentations entailing principles of Canon Law and casuistry―that are usually beyond the intellectual competence of the average layman―there is a serious danger that reverence for the august person of the Supreme Pontiff may be lessened, and there may consequently arise a grave misunderstanding of the doctrines defined by the Vatican Council regarding the primacy and infallibility of the Roman Pontiff. This is especially true in the present day, wherein the vacancy of the Apostolic See alleged by the faithful of the sedevacantist persuasion does not afford them an opportunity to exercise their loyalty to the Apostolic See at the practical level, and wherein certain non-sedevacantist polemicists who attempt to reconcile the Johannine-Pauline Council with the Catholic faith commit various and sundry errors regarding the nature and authority of the papacy in their attempt to vindicate ecclesiastical praxes that are contrary to the acts and spirit of the authority they recognize. The consequences of this phenomenon in the interior life of the individual Catholic can be horrendously devastating―leading to a terrible pessimism regarding the history and future of the Church, to a  tendency to become one’s own spiritual director, which ultimately leads to the cultivation of lax consciences, and thereby dragging the individual soul to retardation in the interior life, to spiritual pride and vanity, to acedia, to the neglect of the cultivation of the acquired moral virtues, and ultimately to serious spiritual disorders that can pervert the individual soul and lead it astray from the care of trained Pastors to false clerics or openly heretical or schismatic sects. This peril is particularly increased when absurd conspiracy-theories, utter deception and falsification, and shoddy scholarship are used by those polemicists who deny obedience to the legislation promulgated by the Apostolic See.  
    [38] “Nemo sibi arbitrium sumat normas sibimet ipsi decernendi easdemque ex voluntate sua ceteris imperandi.
    [39] Pope Benedict XV, Apostolic Constitution Sedis hujus Apostolicae (14 May 1920; A.A.S., vol. XII [1920], pp. 317 sqq.); cited by Archdale A. King in the Preface of his book The Liturgy of the Roman Church (London: Longmans, Green & Co., 1957; Imprimatur: + E. Morragh Bernard, Vicar General of Westminister, 5 June 1957).
    [40] “Porro subesse Romano Pontifici omni humanae creaturae declaramus, dicimus, definimus et pronuntiamus omnino de necessitate salutis,” Bull Unam sanctam (18 November 1302), Denzinger, n. 469.
    [41] Rev. Father O’Connell, op. cit., p. 33.
    [42] Ibid. The typical edition of the Ordo Hebdomadae Sanctae instauratus replaces the Roman Missal and Breviary during Holy Week, so it is the rubrics of the former book that are relevant in this discussion.
    [43] Ibid., p. 34.
    [44] Rev. O’Connell, op. cit., p. 37. In a footnote on this page, the author aptly cites the rebuke of Our Lord to the Pharisees (S. Mark. ch. vii., 8, 9): “Leaving the commandment of God, you hold the traditions of men. Well do you frustrate the precept of God, that you may observe your own tradition.”
    Please ignore all that I have written regarding sedevacantism.


    Offline Hobbledehoy

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    « Reply #23 on: July 24, 2012, 09:47:34 PM »
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  • Clarification regarding the above-posted notes:

    Objectively speaking, the case is as the notes I have posted say, but whether or not the present-day clerics are to be imputed any culpability in this regard at the subjective level is another question: it is a matter of casuistry, and one for each individual cleric to discuss with his Spiritual Director.

    However, there is no reason whatsoever to impute culpability on those sedevacantist clerics who do obey the reforms of Pope Pius XII, nor to denigrate them in any way whatsoever. Their course is safer because it is more orthodox and consistent.
    Please ignore all that I have written regarding sedevacantism.

    Offline Hobbledehoy

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    « Reply #24 on: July 24, 2012, 09:53:16 PM »
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  • An exchange between SJB and I on this issue (31 March 2012) on another thread:

    Quote from: SJB
    Quote from: Hobbledehoy
    The general ecclesiastical discipline of the Church is to be chosen in preference to the private opinions of any cleric, his learning or personal sanctity notwithstanding. Even if every sedevacantist cleric chooses to disobey the decrees of the Congregation of Sacred Rites, it would still be wrong.


    It seems rather significant to note that nobody at the time rejected or even questioned the Holy Week changes.


    Another reason why there can be no solid argument invoking the principles of cessation of law: the reforms were universally accepted (and with acclaim) by the whole of Christendom in the Roman Rite. Eventually the other Rites applied for the lawful adoption of the reforms, such as the Benedictines, the Carmelites, etc.

    Quote
    This was the same for the fasting modifications, which are accepted by all the mentioned sede clergy.


    In fact, it was the Restored Order of Holy Week that eventually led to the toleration and sanction of evening Masses and ultimately to the mitigation of the ancient Eucharistic Fast promulgated by the Motu Proprio Sacram Communionem (A.A.S., vol. xlix., pp. 177-178).

    If one is to discard the Restored Order of Holy Week, because it was supposedly the "precursor" to the Novus Ordo anti-liturgy, why retain the mitigated fast, which could be discarded using the same arguments, according to the reasoning of those who refuse to obey the Decrees of the Sacred Congregation of Rites? Was the same Roman Pontiff, who is alleged by some cranks to have been bedeviled or too demented to validly promulgate the liturgical reforms, also fooled by modernists or too crazy to validly promulgate the mitigated Eucharistic Fast?[/size][/font]
    Please ignore all that I have written regarding sedevacantism.

    Offline caniscaeli3

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    « Reply #25 on: July 25, 2012, 04:39:09 AM »
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  •  :fryingpan:
    I have read most of the commentary in this thread.  I have been blessed as almost TrueMasses which I have attended since 1994 have been devoid of most of the novelties  as described by Frs. Dolan and Cekada. For a period of time, I attended an FSSP Chapel.  The truncated Holy Saturday Mass was celebrated in the evening; in the beginning at 7 p.m. and later changed to 10 p.m., so that in fact it was a Vigil of Easter Mass. The Saturday evening Mass was offered at 5:30 p.m., using the Propers of Sunday.  The reasoning for that was because it was "pastoral" and the liturgical "day" began at sundown.

    Recently, the Pope bowdlerized the Good Friday prayer for the conversion of the Jєωs.  There is one society of apostolic life, whose constitutions specifically state they have the privilege of including that particular prayer.  It appears now that it has become an option.  Our new pastor included  the original prayer last Good Friday and has in fact instituted a Holy Hour at 3 p.m. on Friday for the express purpose of conversion of the Jєωs.

    Here I must object to the characterization of Lambert Beauduin as a co-founder of the Liturgical Movement.  He was a co-opter of LM. The founders of LM were Dom Gueranger and Pope St. Pius X. Beauduin was a founder of the Liturgical Revolution.

    It is an historical fact that despite the Oath against Modernism, that the Modernists went underground. They surrounded Beauduin and took up the cause of the Liturgical Revolution as a means of promoting their heterodoxy.  They were able to succeed by infiltrating and taking over the bishop's conferences of France and Germany.

    The great modern docuмent on TrueMass is, of course, Mediator Dei by the Ven. Pope Pius XII, given on 11/20/47.  The Pope recognizes and affirms the theory of organic growth in the liturgy as an enrichment of public worship as long as it does not contradict Catholic Dogma.  He affirms the liturgical norms of Trent. He affirms Tra le sollecitudini He praises LM as founded by Dom Gueranger.  He condemns theological errors on the nature of the priesthood of the faithful; exaggerations of active participation in the Mass; the attempt to restore ancient rites (archaeologism); the discontinuance of black as a liturgical color; the substitution of the primitive table for the altar; the progressive elements of LM; the use of the vernacular; para-liturgies; Humanism in the Mass and; "... certain people... (who are) too fond of novelty and go astray from the paths of sound doctrine and prudence..."

    On the other hand he urges active participation in the Mass by means of the hand missal; congregational participation in the Chant and the dialogue Mass (§111). Prior to WW II, the congregation of Westminster Cathedral was able to chant five Masses from the Kyriale. He affirms that the Mass has the form of vertical worship as opposed to horizontal worship, as is contained in NOM.  He states that active participation is necessary to draw the faithful to the Crucifixion.  There are two elements of Divine Worship, interior and exterior.  Interior worship requires an individual to pray the Mass.  He states that exterior worship (dialogue) expresses the unity of the congregation with the Mystical Body of Christ.

    It is my experience with the dialogue that the responses are given in a low voice, a loud whisper, if you will.  There is no distraction.  In another place, he states, “… to participate in the Mass is our chief duty... not in an inert fashion (Mrs. Murphy praying her beads [my comment])... giving way to distraction and daydreaming.  This participation in the Mass, not only is a reasonable concept but is necessary to fully cooperate in the Mysteries.

    As an example of organic growth, Pope Pacelli gives the following: as Catholic dogma regarding Mary, Virgin Mother of God grew; new prayers were introduced to the Mass to reflect those developments, even into the Canon. St. Joseph is the patron of the Church.  It is fitting,  therefore to commemorate him in the Mass IMHO.  What better place than in the Communicantes?

    That said, Pope Roncalli inserted the commemoration of St. Joseph into the Canon to demonstrate that he had the power to do so, according to an approved a biographer, Paul Johnson, an English hack, not the great historian-scholar.  The Pope is also granted this right by Canon Law.  (§253 [1917]).

    What happened to this liturgically orthodox Pope between 1947 and 1955?  It should be remembered that his gastritis began in 1953 and he was in failing health until his death.  He did not realize that the litnik disciples of Beauduin were plotting a liturgical revolution.  He did not consider them enemies, but rather, as intellectual theoreticians.  Don't forget that he himself was a polymath.

    The Liturgical Revolution was being led by Pius Parsch, Romano Guardini, Louis Bouyer, Josef Jungmann, Odo Casel, Yves Congar, et al. The bishops' councils approved the concocted novelties as being pastoral.  These councils presented petition and after petition to the Pope requesting some of these novelties become liturgical law. These "liturgical experts" were recommended to the Pope by prelates such as Cardinal Lercaro, Cardinal Montini, Cardinal Bea and other members of the Curia. The Pope is also an executive and relies on advice from various sources.  Here, we have a situation wherein a number of bishops' councils and individual bishops are petitioning for the same thing; therefore, there must be some wisdom in these requests. He acted IMO for essentially pastoral reasons to encourage participation in and ardor for the Mass. Big mistake, but then hindsight is 20/20.

    As a result, the Eucharistic fast was reformed; evening Masses were introduced; the Holy Week liturgy was revised; and, vernacular was introduced into the sacraments.

    The Pope was surrounded by enemies. Bea was his confessor. Lercaro was an “intellectual.” (It was well known that he kept a house in Rome populated by attractive young men. It was also alleged that he was a member of Propaganda Due and a Mason.)  

    Speaking of Masonry there must be something in the water of Bergamo. That town gave us Cdl. Rampolla, a Mason, who was almost elected at the 1903 conclave.  Then came Roncalli who allegedly was inducted into the Grande Orient Lodge of France.  Last, but not least, was Bishop Bernareggi, who was the founder of the Center for Liturgical Action in Italy.  Its protectors were Montini of Milan (allegedly the center for Italian Masonry) and Lercaro of Bologna (the center of Italian Communism).

    There is a conspiracy theory which alleges that Stalin had sent nearly a thousand agents into the West to compromise the Church. Anastas Mikoyan said Communism would be established in France because of its great support by the hierarchy and Catholic publications. Bela Dodd, an American Communist, testifying before HUAC stated Communist agents had penetrated the Catholic Church.

    Did you notice that I haven't mentioned Bugnini? He comes on the scene in 1946-1947.  Fr. Didier Bonneterre relates that he begged the director of the Centre for Pastoral Liturgy, Fr. Duployé, for an invitation to a litnik conference in Theuilin, France. CPL was the French modernist liturgical cabal. In 1947, he became editor of a liturgical periodical and secured a position teaching liturgical studies first at Pontifical Urban College and then at Lateran Univ. He wasn’t unique.  

    The liturgical changes implemented by the Commission for Liturgical Reform, whose president was Lercaro and whose secretary was Bugnini, were incorporated in the 1962 Missale Romanum.

    In conclusion, it is best to avoid 1962 Missal. The 1948 editio typica is the last untainted Missale Romanum.


    Offline Lover of Truth

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    « Reply #26 on: July 25, 2012, 07:45:04 AM »
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  • Thank you for the informative information you provided here caniscaeli3.

    I'll throw in my 2 cents which is not based on any theological formation but off the cuff.

    Why do we keep hearing about "organic development" of the liturgy 1500 years after the Mass was formed and 400 years after it was codified?  Why are we still trying to get it "right"?  In vatican 2 speak "organic development" means changing a thing from one thing to another.  The only development would be to add valid Saints to the calendar IMO.  

    Also, I found the dialogue Masses, even when the people kind of whispered the responses, distracting and disturbing.  Just a step towards kind of stealing the Mass from the Priest as has been pretty much accomplished in the anti-Catholic V2 Church.  

    Pius V codified the thing in 1570, let's quit messing with it.

    Those are my beer-belleyed belching, peanut eating sentiments.  

    Hindsight is indeed 20/20 and Pius XII would realize that despite not officially allowing anything anti-Catholic, he certainly did not officially put the liturgy on a path to where it was going to get better, and his changes were not improvements as he realizes now.  

    I believe that 99% who compare the Post '55 changes with the previous 1500 years are willing to admit that including those, who out of an admirable sense of obedience to the deceased Pontiff, act towards the contrary.

    Again, I cannot see how any layman or even clergyman can condemn one on either side of the issue (using the liturgy in place at the death of Pius XII which was in place for 3 years due to obedience to the last living Pontiff or going with the liturgy of the previous 1500 years due to common sense).

    I'm not sure how we can judge the consciences of the clergy-men  that are just trying to provide with unquestionably Catholic liturgy, tainted and brief or pure and established.  If it wasn't for the obedience factor, which Satan used to lure us into the V2 Church, all would agree that the liturgy before the changes under Pius XII was certainly the most Catholic, even if some take humbrage to that statement since they claim nothing imprudent can happen to the liturgy under the watchful eyes of a severely ill Pope.

    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church

    Offline Hobbledehoy

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    1962 Missal vs. 1954 and earlier iQuo Primumi
    « Reply #27 on: July 25, 2012, 09:24:16 PM »
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  • To caniscaeli3:

    In an issue of The Catholic Voice, Rev. Fr. Kevin Vaillaincourt also wrote of the modernists' attempts at subverting of Catholic liturgical praxis, but he accepts the liturgical reforms promulgated by Pope Pius XII, and advocates such a practice.

    The CMRI also obey what they consider to be the latest legislation lawfully promulgated by the Apostolic See, despite knowing the subversive activities of the modernist operatives within the hierarchy.

    Why do they do this?

    Whosoever were the clerics in the Liturgical Commission whose recommendations contributed to the latest liturgical reforms is of no consequence whatsoever. What is of consequence is that the Sacred Congregation of Rites has the authority of the Supreme Pontiff in liturgical matters.

    Just as no one seems to care about the fact the reformed Roman Psalter of Pope St. Pius X was not actually his, but the schema of the forgotten and unsung Rev. Father Paschal Brugnani, so Catholics should not pay mind to the fact that the above-mentioned Roman Congregation availed itself of the services of certain clerics who later were found to be modernists and who worked to establish a pseudo-liturgy antithetically opposed to the divine Offices of Holy Mother Church.

    To believe that a band of covert heretics can be so successful in implementing their novelties in the Sacred Liturgy of the Roman Rite to the detriment of faith, morals and the spiritual welfare of the faithful, is essentially to deny the moral inerrancy of the Apostolic See in matters of ecclesiastical discipline.

    This is why the supposed evolutionary continuity between the liturgical reforms of Pope Pius XII and the anti-liturgy consequent upon the Johannine-Pauline Council is merely accidental and peripheral at best: a revisionist historiography that seeks to explain the activity of the modernists as if the Church herself were "conquered" by them is not right, as the Church can never be overcome by modernists.

    The Roman Liturgy is pure and unadulterated as Pope Pius XII has left it, whereas resorting to conspiracy theories and private opinions leads to an egocentric antiquarianism. If it were otherwise, then an individual may be led to believe that the Church can err in matters of general ecclesiastical discipline, making a sense of loyalty and love for the Apostolic See absurd and even noxious, as Lover_of_Truth himself seems to inadvertently admit:

    Quote
    If it wasn't for the obedience factor, which Satan used to lure us into the V2 Church, all would agree that the liturgy before the changes under Pius XII was certainly the most Catholic, even if some take humbrage to that statement since they claim nothing imprudent can happen to the liturgy under the watchful eyes of a severely ill Pope. [emphases mine]



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    Please ignore all that I have written regarding sedevacantism.

    Offline Hobbledehoy

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    « Reply #28 on: July 25, 2012, 09:46:04 PM »
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  • Quote from: Lover_of_Truth
    Hindsight is indeed 20/20 and Pius XII would realize that despite not officially allowing anything anti-Catholic, he certainly did not officially put the liturgy on a path to where it was going to get better, and his changes were not improvements as he realizes now. [emphasis mine]


    How in the world would you know this? How do you know what the late Pope is thinking now? Again, arguments based upon past contingencies absolutely incognoscible to created intellects are not only inadequate and unsatisfactory, but they expose in a striking fashion the troubling contradiction of those sedevacantists who profess themselves apologists for the Apostolic See and yet do whatsoever it pleases them, crying forth, "Oh, Pope Pius XII would have done so!"

    Quote from: Lover_of_Truth
    I'm not sure how we can judge the consciences of the clergy-men that are just trying to provide with unquestionably Catholic liturgy, tainted and brief or pure and established. If it wasn't for the obedience factor, which Satan used to lure us into the V2 Church, all would agree that the liturgy before the changes under Pius XII was certainly the most Catholic, even if some take umbrage to that statement since they claim nothing imprudent can happen to the liturgy under the watchful eyes of a severely ill Pope.


    See the post above.

    The problem here is that certain clerics make imperious, categorical declarations regarding their liturgical praxis, and make it seem as if it is imperative for one to adopt their interpretation of the pertinent principles. If they had just observed the abolished rites without making an issue out of it, everything would have been fine. But they have written for decades on how they are not only right, but that they represent "traditional" Catholicism.

    For example:

    Quote from: Father Cekada
    The Catholic liturgy we seek to restore should be the one redolent of the fragrance of antiquity — not the one reeking with the scent of Bugnini.


    Again, who gets to determine what exactly is this "Catholic liturgy" which is the one "we seek to restore" and "one redolent of the fragrance of antiquity"? In order for Sacred Liturgy to be Catholic the authority of Holy Mother Church is indispensable, otherwise it is all just rubricated theatre, like what the Anglo-Catholics have with their Sarum Missals.

    Exactly who has the competence and authority to determine exactly what liturgical rites and rubrics ought to be followed by those who would avoid the modernists' "tinkering"? The Saint Lawrence Press, Ltd., seems to think the answer would be 1939, since their Ordines are based on the typical editions of the liturgical books that were in force that year. At Saint Gertrude's, the Feast of St. Pius X is observed, but not that of St. Joseph the Workman. So at what year, at what typical edition of the Roman Missal and Breviary, do we stop?

    The fact is that such sedevacantists pick and choose which docuмents to apply, and give their own private interpretations. Just like the polemicists who refuse to obey the General Decrees of the Congregation of Sacred Rites when it comes to the Restored Order of Holy Week, or the Feast Day of St. Joseph the Workman, but adhere to the new Mass formulary of the Assumption or to the Feast of St. Pius X (both formularies used the New Translation of the Roman Psalter, which, by the way, gets equally bad treatment by such polemicists).

    The real question is how much can one invoke epikeia and still retain praxis that can be recognized as Catholic?

    It's either the general ecclesiastical discipline of Holy Mother Church, or an individual's pet theories.

    Adhesion to the liturgical reforms lawfully promulgated by the Apostolic See is the Catholic thing to do, whereas doing as one pleases is Protestant.

    The Church has spoken on the matter.

    Clerics such as Rev. Fr. Vaillancourt and the CMRI Fathers avoid the quizzical and labyrinthine problems inherent in certain sedevacantist clerics' "rubrical dilettantism" by humbly acknowledging this fact and endeavor to be lead by a spirit of filial love for Holy Mother Church and obedience to her magisterium.[/size][/font]
    Please ignore all that I have written regarding sedevacantism.

    Offline Lover of Truth

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    « Reply #29 on: July 27, 2012, 05:37:52 AM »
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  • Hindsight truly is 20/20.  Any honest and knowledgeable individual will admit that the liturgical changes were not an improvement.  Why change things if not for the better?  Pius XII is aware of who he was dealing with and who he allowed to inform him and make suggestions now.  It is certainly reasonable and perhaps even obvious, that if he knew then what he knows now he would have not allowed the changes.  As to disobeying the Pope; I was not aware we had one:

     Now, among the principles and precedents introduced in the Pius XII liturgical changes, we discover the following elements that were subsequently incorporated across the board into the New Mass:

          (1) Liturgy must follow the “pastoral” principle to educate the faithful.

          (2) Vernacular may be an integral part of the liturgy.

          (3) Reduction of the priest’s role.

          (4) Lay participation must ideally be vocal.

          (5) New liturgical roles may be introduced.

          (6) Prayers and ceremonies may be changed to accommodate modern “needs.”

          (7) “Needless duplications” must be eliminated.

          (8) The Ordo Missae itself may be changed, or parts eliminated.

          (9) The Creed need not be recited on more solemn occasions.

          (10) The priest “presides” passively at the bench when Scripture is read.

          (11) Certain liturgical functions must be conducted “facing the people.”

          (12) Emphasis on the saints must be reduced.

          (13) Liturgical texts or practices that could offend heretics, schismatics or Jєωs should be modified.

          (14) Liturgical expressions of reverence for the Blessed Sacrament may be “simplified” or reduced.

          The 1950s liturgical legislation introduced these things here and there, and on a limited basis. Taken individually, none was evil in itself.

          But fifty years later, we recognize that these principles and precedents were the foot in the door to the eventual destruction of the Mass. In the very docuмent promulgating the Novus Ordo, in fact, Paul VI himself points to the Pius XII legislation as the beginning of the process.

    Again I maintain that there is nothing anti-Catholic about sticking with how things were at the death of Pius XII and even admit that that might be the best thing to do as we was a valid Pope and did allow the changes.  But I have not seen a convincing argument that we can ipso facto denounce the learned clergymen who stick with the liturgy that was in place for centuries.  I'm not sure how a layman can definitively condemn either side of the issue.  I certainly don't.

    There are clergymen, on both sides of the issue, that do condemn the other side.

    They forget that we all are on the same side.  We need a Pope to set us strait.
    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church