Author Topic: 1958 Conclave "Smoke Signals" Mix-up (Read 1491 times)

Geremia · « **on:** November 01, 2013, 01:00:35 PM »

From the front page of the New York Times on October 27, 1958:

from page 2 (the summary page of the same issue):

from page 3 of the same issue:

Geremia · « **Reply #1 on:** November 01, 2013, 01:18:05 PM »

I didn't know the smoke appeared white two times during the 1958 conclave! The first at 11:53 AM on Oct. 16, 1958, and the second before midnight. But apparently the second only appeared white due to a spotlight shining up at it?

2Vermont · « **Reply #2 on:** November 01, 2013, 03:52:56 PM »

Quote from: Geremia

I didn't know the smoke appeared white two times during the 1958 conclave! The first at 11:53 AM on Oct. 16, 1958, and the second before midnight. But apparently the second only appeared white due to a spotlight shining up at it?

Where did you read this? I thought the first report said that it wasn't until the third set of ballots where "at first" it was white.

Geremia · « **Reply #3 on:** November 01, 2013, 04:44:52 PM »

Quote from: 2Vermont

Where did you read this?

It's in the 2nd image. (You'll have to blow it up to read it.)

2Vermont · « **Reply #4 on:** November 01, 2013, 04:49:51 PM »

Quote from: Geremia

Quote from: 2Vermont
Where did you read this?
It's in the 2nd image. (You'll have to blow it up to read it.)

OK, so exactly why was there sooooo much trouble with the smoke that year?

Honestly. Is this system that difficult?

LoverOfTradition · « **Reply #5 on:** November 01, 2013, 07:03:38 PM »

Thanks for this, Geremia.

Cardinal Siri, pray for the Church...

Geremia · « **Reply #6 on:** November 03, 2013, 08:14:29 PM »

Quote from: 2Vermont

Quote from: Geremia
Quote from: 2Vermont
Where did you read this?
It's in the 2nd image. (You'll have to blow it up to read it.)

OK, so exactly why was there sooooo much trouble with the smoke that year?

Honestly. Is this system that difficult?

I'm wondering if previous conclaves had such issues…

Geremia · « **Reply #7 on:** November 03, 2013, 08:30:40 PM »

Quote from: LoverOfTradition

Cardinal Siri, pray for the Church...

I'm certain he is praying for the Church from heaven.

Many dismiss the possibility of Card. Siri being Pope Gregory XVII because he participated in Vatican II, said the Novus (dis)Ordo, and recognized the post-Pius XII popes as valid popes, but would this take away from the fact that they were not canonically elected?

St. Francis of Assisi (1181-1226)
"There will be an uncanonically elected pope who will cause a great Schism, there will be diverse thoughts preached which will cause many, even those in the different orders to doubt, yea, even agree with those heretics which will cause my Order to divide, then will there be such universal dissension and persecutions that if those days were not shortened even the elect would be lost."
(source)

Thursday · « **Reply #8 on:** November 03, 2013, 08:36:37 PM »

Siri at one point collapsed at Vatican II and was taken to the hospital. He was giving a speech and his secretary had to finish it for him. He talked about it in one of the 30 days articles.

The first signal from the morning of the 26th was included in the conclave footage in papal imposters. the first puff being white is not that odd as I THINK that they have to light the dry straw first and then quickly add the damp stuff to create the black smoke.
Customarily the first votes of a conclave go to senior clergy as a bit of a formality.

Geremia · « **Reply #9 on:** November 04, 2013, 12:30:03 AM »

Quote from: Thursday

Siri at one point collapsed at Vatican II and was taken to the hospital. He was giving a speech and his secretary had to finish it for him. He talked about it in one of the 30 days articles.

Oh, yes, Modernism was bad for his health for sure.

2Vermont · « **Reply #10 on:** November 04, 2013, 04:34:44 AM »

Quote from: Thursday

Siri at one point collapsed at Vatican II and was taken to the hospital. He was giving a speech and his secretary had to finish it for him. He talked about it in one of the 30 days articles.

The first signal from the morning of the 26th was included in the conclave footage in papal imposters. the first puff being white is not that odd as I THINK that they have to light the dry straw first and then quickly add the damp stuff to create the black smoke.
Customarily the first votes of a conclave go to senior clergy as a bit of a formality.

Yes, I think the issue was the duration of the later smoke.

LoverOfTradition · « **Reply #11 on:** November 04, 2013, 12:13:03 PM »

Has it ever occurred to anyone that when Our Lady said there would be persecutions of the Church and of the Holy Father she was talking about Cardinal Siri - Pope Gregory XVII?

Just a thought.

Geremia · « **Reply #12 on:** November 04, 2013, 01:52:21 PM »

Quote from: LoverOfTradition

Has it ever occurred to anyone that when Our Lady said there would be persecutions of the Church and of the Holy Father she was talking about Cardinal Siri - Pope Gregory XVII?

Yes

LoverOfTradition · « **Reply #13 on:** November 04, 2013, 03:31:41 PM »

Quote from: Geremia

Quote from: LoverOfTradition
Has it ever occurred to anyone that when Our Lady said there would be persecutions of the Church and of the Holy Father she was talking about Cardinal Siri - Pope Gregory XVII?
Yes

Good. I'm convinced She was talking about Cardinal Siri, too.