The events of the past few days have left even me devastated.  I feel like someone has punched me in the gut.   I have given the Vatican II "popes" every benefit of the doubt...I can no longer do that.

Something is horribly wrong with Holy Mother Church.  Take it from me, the faith that resides within the conciliar church is not the Faith that I was taught as a child.  

These men who are occupying the Chair of Peter are destroying the Church.  This one has gone places JPII never touched, and JPII (of very unhappy memory) was bad enough.   There is not much left to dispose of.  Of course, to keep the conciliar folks deluded, they will never touch those essential dogmas, i.e. they will never say that there are actually two persons in the Blessed Trinity and oops!, many pardons, but hereinafter we will call it the Blessed Duo.

This is exactly how I feel.  I have not been a sede naysayer and I am beginning to see things from there point of view.  This is a  truly horrible time.

Well, I'm a fence sitter,....I figure I don't need to judge whether Benedict is a heretic or not. I don't see any place in Catholic dogmatic teaching where I am condemned for NOT judging someone. After all, when I stand before God then I will have to answer for my sins, not the sins of others.

However, I'm certianly not like the NO crowd who "judge" the sedes as being heretics, while ignoring the apparent heretical statements from Benedict. I believe the Sedes may be wrong or may be right, so I'm simply sitting back and observing it all from a distance as I strive to live for God each day.

F3F, I do understand what it is like to be undecided.  

Some people have no problem sitting on a fence; I was not one of them.  I knew I had to make a decision one way or the other.  Thanks to BXVI and his recent insanity, I was able to do that.

Alexander, I understand.

Perhaps the Sedevacantists are correct

Quote from: faith3faith

Doesn't Canon Law give the lay Catholic the right to judge someone as a heretic ?

I'm not sure. But I'm pretty certain it doesn't give lay catholics the right to judge the Pope.

Actually Canon Law says that a Catholic has the right to determine if someone who holds office within the Church has lost that office position due to heresy without any declaration from any Church Council. This obviously also applies to the Papal office.
   

Quote from: faith3faith

Quote from: stevusmagnus

Quote from: faith3faith

Doesn't Canon Law give the lay Catholic the right to judge someone as a heretic ?

I'm not sure. But I'm pretty certain it doesn't give lay catholics the right to judge the Pope.

Actually Canon Law says that a Catholic has the right to determine if someone who holds office within the Church has lost that office position due to heresy without any declaration from any Church Council. This obviously also applies to the Papal office.
   

Can you cite which Canon Law states this? I'd really like to read it please.

Thank you.

Canon 192 One is removed from office either by a decree of the competent authority lawfully issued, observing of course the rights possibly acquired from a contract, or by virtue of the law in accordance with can. 194
1917 Canon 194 one who has publicly defected from the catholic faith or from communion with the Church
 
canon 188, par. 4 of the 1917 code
- TEACHES THAT A PUBLICLY HERETICAL CLERIC LOSES HIS OFFICE WITHOUT DECLARATION
 
Canon 2197.1, 1917 Code of Canon Law - definition of "public" and "notorious" heresy
 
The will to violate the law is presumed in the external forum, as Canon 2200.2 says. So that means if I were a public figure and violated a law of the Church, the presumption would be against me
 
 
Pope Leo XIII, Satis Cognitum (# 9):
"No one who merely disbelieves in all (these heresies) can for that reason regard himself as a Catholic or call himself one. For there may be or arise some other heresies, which are not set out in this work of ours, and, if any one holds to a single one of these he is not a Catholic"

Quote from: Oremus

Quote from: faith3faith

Quote from: stevusmagnus

Quote from: faith3faith

Doesn't Canon Law give the lay Catholic the right to judge someone as a heretic ?

I'm not sure. But I'm pretty certain it doesn't give lay catholics the right to judge the Pope.

Actually Canon Law says that a Catholic has the right to determine if someone who holds office within the Church has lost that office position due to heresy without any declaration from any Church Council. This obviously also applies to the Papal office.
   

Can you cite which Canon Law states this? I'd really like to read it please.

Thank you.

Canon 192 One is removed from office either by a decree of the competent authority lawfully issued, observing of course the rights possibly acquired from a contract, or by virtue of the law in accordance with can. 194
1917 Canon 194 one who has publicly defected from the catholic faith or from communion with the Church
 
canon 188, par. 4 of the 1917 code
- TEACHES THAT A PUBLICLY HERETICAL CLERIC LOSES HIS OFFICE WITHOUT DECLARATION
 
Canon 2197.1, 1917 Code of Canon Law - definition of "public" and "notorious" heresy
 
The will to violate the law is presumed in the external forum, as Canon 2200.2 says. So that means if I were a public figure and violated a law of the Church, the presumption would be against me
 
 
Pope Leo XIII, Satis Cognitum (# 9):
"No one who merely disbelieves in all (these heresies) can for that reason regard himself as a Catholic or call himself one. For there may be or arise some other heresies, which are not set out in this work of ours, and, if any one holds to a single one of these he is not a Catholic"

Awesome, thank you.