Author Topic: 'Sedes' (Read 5971 times)

Dawn · « **Reply #15 on:** July 25, 2008, 09:17:48 AM »

I wonder why so many sit on the fence. How can you listen to the speeches and watch the blasphemies of WYD 2008, to which Benedict said was a wonderful time, and still not realize that this heretic is leading sheep off a cliff?
Fence sitting is causing the chasm to split the SSPX in two.
And, everyone loves to forget that Arxchbishop Lefebvre, who died before the heresies and blasphemies flowed like wine out of the Vatican, said that indeed these Popes included JPII could very well be anti-popes.

I suppose that most of those in denial stayed away from viewing WYD because they knew it was an near occassion of sin. So, how do they still persist in thinking that a real Pope would allow teenagers to covort as though they are at a pagan festival to Bacchus? At the final "Mass" I saw them dribble the communion wine down their chins and swipe their mouths with their dirty sweaty hands.

marasmius · « **Reply #16 on:** July 25, 2008, 10:08:52 AM »

Habemus Papem

If we have had no legitimate Pope sitting in the chair of St Peter for five decades, how can that be reconciled with Christ's words to Peter that the gates of Hell will not prevail against His Church?

Is the real Pope locked in a basement somewhere? Will he emerge one day, blinking at the sun, with a long white beard, to restart the real Catholic Church?

If there has been no legitimate Pope at all for five decades, not even a Pope locked in a basement somewhere, then how will the new legitimate Pope be chosen? Who will choose him?

roscoe · « **Reply #17 on:** July 25, 2008, 12:10:20 PM »

Sorry Dylan, you don't post that frequently and as such I forgot your feelngs.

Marasmius--I personally have never said that there has not been a legitimate Pope for 5 decades. If Card Siri was elected then he has been the Pope(at least until 1989). If I am reading the TCW webpage correctly, Card Pintonello was elected to succeed Pope Greg XVII at that time. Whether he is Pope at this time I do not know.

There is going to be a cataclysmic event of some sorts in 2012--3 days of darkness will give way to light as St's Peter and Paul decend from Heaven and supervise the election of a true Pope(somewhat similar to the election of Martin V at the end of the great West Schism when 3 Popes claimed to be legitimate)

And as far as the words of Jesus, I believe you are leaving out one phrase. Unless I am mistaken, He said that the Chruch will remain with us UNTIL the end of time. If the until is here then it would make sense that Holy Church is indeed in the most catastrophic of all schisms.

Dawn · « **Reply #18 on:** July 25, 2008, 12:21:07 PM »

The Holy Spirit. He is guiding the Church and sitting on the Papal Throne. It is very simple. That is why these posers have not spoken Ex Cathedra.
Read prophecy for some ideas on how the real Pontiff will come.
We must believe in the papacy and infallibilty. Not every one who sits in the chair.

joe17 · « **Reply #19 on:** August 14, 2008, 05:18:13 PM »

Not much to add right now, but just to say that I don't accept the VII popes either. Pray that we are privleged to be around when Our Lord resolves this dilemma. By prayer and penance we will do our part for this to come about.

roscoe · « **Reply #20 on:** August 14, 2008, 05:54:59 PM »

Welcome 'sede'.

joe17 · « **Reply #21 on:** August 14, 2008, 08:47:01 PM »

Thanks for the welcome. I was wondering earlier why it had student under my name, thinking I might have checked something off by mistake while registering. Anyway, I see those with many posts have teacher under theirs. How many posts does it take to get that, or is one "voted" one?
If I may ask, how will any of you be assisting at Mass tomorrow on the Assumption? I will be fortunate to serve a private Mass. Will it be at a Mass site, chapel, private, reading the missal, etc. Just curious.

Joe

Dawn · « **Reply #22 on:** August 14, 2008, 09:09:03 PM »

Yes, welcome. It seems that Ratzinger is pushing the "resist" crowd to the brink. I think the sede ranks will be growing.

MichaelSolimanto · « **Reply #23 on:** August 19, 2008, 07:07:06 PM »

One of the great lunacies of sedevacants that is never put into the light is how many forms there are. One will believe in Pope Peter II to Pius XIII and the others believe in the Holy Ghost Church without visible leaders or hierarchy, to those who believe Benedict is materially but not formally the Holy Father.

The problem is we don't have a visible Church taken to the same conclusion that any heresy makes one a heretic and therefore losses their office. That's just not true. There are known Freemason bishops from the 19th century who ordained priests and Rome confirmed the ordinations as valid, and even allowed this one bishop in particular in France continue to ordain priests as valid priests.

And yes Dawn, a pope did say something infallible since the time of Pius XII, it was JPII who said women cannot become priests. The dubium from the Holy Office affirmed his teaching as infallible.

Given the state of sedevacantism, who would want to believe in something which has no concrete solutions. Roscoe believes in Gregory XVII and Dawn believes in the Holy Ghost "spiritual" Church which was condemned by Pius XII. Why should someone want to close ranks with people who aren't close ranked in how they believe the Church exists themselves? Sorry, I would rather be Orthodox before I believe this bastion of confusion.

Dulcamara · « **Reply #24 on:** August 19, 2008, 09:35:19 PM »

Amen. :rolleyes:

Cletus · « **Reply #25 on:** August 19, 2008, 11:15:03 PM »

I would rather be a sedevacantist before I believed that the Antichrist is my Holy Father.

Or that the Holy Father is the Antichrist.

Hey, different strokes for different folks...

MichaelSolimanto · « **Reply #26 on:** August 20, 2008, 09:00:39 AM »

Quote from: Cletus

I would rather be a sedevacantist before I believed that the Antichrist is my Holy Father.

Or that the Holy Father is the Antichrist.

Hey, different strokes for different folks...

Common theme: don't argue the topic, say something to give rise to the emotions of others, rinse and repeat.

Ok, I get your schtick, but it's lame. What type of sedevacantist are you? What "pope" do you believe in, and if not what type of long-term sede are you?

Why not address the issue? And are you over the age of 20?

Cletus · « **Reply #27 on:** August 20, 2008, 11:59:36 AM »

Mainline Traditionalists are given to referring to their imagined pope as an Antichrist one minute as a the dear Holy Father the next.

Only a very dishonest person would fail to see that there is an anomaly here which goes far to demonstrate that the mainline Traditionalist party line has its weaknesses.

"I would rather be Orthodox..."

Hmm... No appeal to emotions in this rhetorically unorthodox expostulation?

I feel free to ignore the questions of rude, uncouth, and insulting people on message boards and to refer to their posts as I see fit as I make my general defense of so-called sedevacantism.

There is something horribly ignoble about a man who attacks others and then works himself into a white heat of rage and scorn when those whom he has attacked dare, DARE to defend themselves.

Any other kind of "shtick" is preferable to that.

MichaelSolimanto · « **Reply #28 on:** August 20, 2008, 12:37:43 PM »

You don't realize what I meant in context when I said I would rather be Orthodox. I would rather believe in an actual visible members of the hierarchy than the current sedevacantist belief that there are no reigning members of the hierarchy with jurisdiction, i.e. there is a "Church" without a visible leadership at all that was established by Christ that was to be city on the hill until the end of time.

The Orthodox's explanation for their denial of being Catholic is easier to swallow from a standpoint of theology than the sedevacantist empty hierarchy position. Sure you can throw a Bellarmine quote about the papacy, but can you find one theologian who believes that there can be no reigning office of jurisdiction in any diocese, that the teaching office of the Church can go up in smoke?

If you really believe there is an anti-Christ who pretends to be Pope, and that there are no more cardinals or bishops to elect another Pope it's far easier to swallow the Orthodox pill of theology than a mystical floating Church with floats around until the second coming.

That's not emotional at all; your position, namely a belief that the "Church" could exist in the state of complete annihilation and yet hold on through mystical belief that it is exists because you think it so through some private speculation is completely asinine.

Show me a theological exposition of what you believe in the Church. If I'm so wrong, show me why you are right. I'll listen, but I'm telling you, I've never in all my life seen any sedevacantist show me how they can believe in the Church they see it now, except those sedevacantists who believe in the material and not the formal papacy. At least they try to make sense of this mess from the stand-point of succession and jurisdiction.

Cletus · « **Reply #29 on:** August 20, 2008, 01:10:44 PM »

Empty hierarchy?

What is emptier than the "recognition" that mainline Traditionalists accord the Vatican II church top leadership as they proceed to fly for safety unto their own little chapels and their own little bishops and priests, dismissing the "Novus Ordo" hierarchy as Modernist or Masonic or French Revolution-friendly?

The Vatican II hierarchy is "empty" insofar as they lack respect, obedience, docility, and cold hard cash from Traditionalist chapel goers. Only occasionally does a Traditionalist mainliner get antsy about the hypocrisy and absurdity of his furious pedantic touting of the Novus Ordo's episcopal genuineness and start playing Hearts and Flowers over this bishops's kind comments about the Chant or that cardinal's unkind comments about a pro-choice politician.

Author Topic: &#039;Sedes&#039; (Read 5971 times)

Author Topic: 'Sedes' (Read 5971 times)