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Author Topic: "Why is that?"  (Read 26506 times)

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Online Gray2023

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Re: "Why is that?"
« Reply #15 on: November 23, 2024, 10:17:01 AM »
Many people are incapable of moral reasoning. They equate legal with moral. These especially need good laws or they will never understand what is right.
But we need good moral people to make good moral laws and right not people base their decisions on whatever fear they hold and not on the fear of God.

Women are angry because they have been trained to see themselves as victims of men. Listening to women's feelings will not make them rational nor do anything to stop abortion.
When I said angry, I meant that they know the nurturing side of them dies each time they make the decision of killing a life, but the peer pressure from "friends, the shame of talking to their parents and others, and the guy they loved who doesn't want the baby they created all play a roll in the babies life.  We have had a whole generation of people being taught wrongly on what is Truth.  We have to meet people where they are.  The people who proudly flaunt their abortions are a small group, and I am guessing that they take on this I don't care mentality to cover the actual care they feel.

So how do we make it safe to have unwanted babies?  How do we help the woman get through the trauma (peer pressure, family, the guy not wanting it)?  I just wish I heard more conversations on this.

This is just my two cents.  I am not trying to cause waves I just think it is a lot more complicated issue and people are just handling the physical side of it and ignoring the psychological and spiritual.

Re: "Why is that?"
« Reply #16 on: November 23, 2024, 10:28:09 AM »
But we need good moral people to make good moral laws and right not people base their decisions on whatever fear they hold and not on the fear of God.
When I said angry, I meant that they know the nurturing side of them dies each time they make the decision of killing a life, but the peer pressure from "friends, the shame of talking to their parents and others, and the guy they loved who doesn't want the baby they created all play a roll in the babies life.  We have had a whole generation of people being taught wrongly on what is Truth.  We have to meet people where they are.  The people who proudly flaunt their abortions are a small group, and I am guessing that they take on this I don't care mentality to cover the actual care they feel.

So how do we make it safe to have unwanted babies?  How do we help the woman get through the trauma (peer pressure, family, the guy not wanting it)?  I just wish I heard more conversations on this.

This is just my two cents.  I am not trying to cause waves I just think it is a lot more complicated issue and people are just handling the physical side of it and ignoring the psychological and spiritual.

We start by telling them to first marry "the guy they loved" and in general to stay very far away, both romantically and socially, from any guy who'd "doesn't want the baby they created". And also stay away from any so-called friends who'd condone such guys. Oh, but she's already got the situation to deal with. Well, it isn't too late to have that conversation with her.

That's how. Till this begins to sink in, everything else is Sisyphean. In general, Traditional Catholics get nowhere by allowing themselves to be co-opted by the discourse of those whom they're hoping to change. Of course, maintain charity and mercy. But never ever concede the boundaries of the battle out of misguided generosity.


Online Gray2023

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Re: "Why is that?"
« Reply #17 on: November 23, 2024, 11:06:15 AM »
We start by telling them to first marry "the guy they loved" and in general to stay very far away, both romantically and socially, from any guy who'd "doesn't want the baby they created". And also stay away from any so-called friends who'd condone such guys. Oh, but she's already got the situation to deal with. Well, it isn't too late to have that conversation with her.

That's how. Till this begins to sink in, everything else is Sisyphean. In general, Traditional Catholics get nowhere by allowing themselves to be co-opted by the discourse of those whom they're hoping to change. Of course, maintain charity and mercy. But never ever concede the boundaries of the battle out of misguided generosity.
Correct never concede.  God can move mountains, we can't on our own accord.  But how do we make it sink in?  The over turning of Roe vs Wade looks like it increased the number of abortions.  Why?  See below for a chart.

I don't think my post said anything about conceding.  Maybe it came from the "meeting people where they are statement", but I am fully Catholic and in the Catholic sense you have to know the person you are trying to help to affect any change.  You can't just approach a stranger going into an abortion clinic and yell at them for the Grave sin they are about to commit and they go oh yeah that makes sense and walk away. (I am exaggerating to make a point.)


Re: "Why is that?"
« Reply #18 on: November 23, 2024, 11:21:26 AM »
But we need good moral people to make good moral laws and right not people base their decisions on whatever fear they hold and not on the fear of God.
When I said angry, I meant that they know the nurturing side of them dies each time they make the decision of killing a life, but the peer pressure from "friends, the shame of talking to their parents and others, and the guy they loved who doesn't want the baby they created all play a roll in the babies life.  We have had a whole generation of people being taught wrongly on what is Truth.  We have to meet people where they are.  The people who proudly flaunt their abortions are a small group, and I am guessing that they take on this I don't care mentality to cover the actual care they feel.

So how do we make it safe to have unwanted babies?  How do we help the woman get through the trauma (peer pressure, family, the guy not wanting it)?  I just wish I heard more conversations on this.

This is just my two cents.  I am not trying to cause waves I just think it is a lot more complicated issue and people are just handling the physical side of it and ignoring the psychological and spiritual.
"Where people are" is placing feelings over thought.  We have had a couple of generations of feminism indoctrinating women that principled decision making is a form of patriarchal oppression.  They (and men too) have lost the underlying philosophical assumptions necessary for understanding that there is such a thing as right and wrong and that we ought to choose what is right.  There is no foundation for people to do hard things because it is the right thing to do. 

It is probably safer and easier now for single women to have babies than at any other point in Western history.  They will get money from the government and not face social disgrace.  But it is still hard because having children, even under ideal conditions, is always hard. I was happily married and financially secure and, nevertheless, raising my children is the hardest thing I've ever done.  The psychological and spiritual issue is that people do not know how to tell right from wrong and how to do hard things. 

One of the main things that people need is the Catholic intellectual tradition: logic, philosophy, and theology.  What we can do is train ourselves to think and to pass this skill on to our children.  Emotions should be guided by intellect which should be formed by Church teaching.  Every person who learns how to think is a point of light in the darkness of our times.  We do not need more worrying about how people feel.  The unbalanced emphasis on feelings is one of the fundamental underlying problems of our culture.  Yet more emphasis on feelings is not the solution.


Re: "Why is that?"
« Reply #19 on: November 23, 2024, 11:27:04 AM »
The over turning of Roe vs Wade looks like it increased the number of abortions.
We don't know how many abortions there would have been if Roe vs Wade were still in place.  Perhaps it would have been far more than actually occurred. 

(It is actually a logical fallacy to assume that something that happened before another thing caused it.  There is even a fancy Latin name for it post hoc propter hoc which you can throw around if you want to impress people  That's what Latin is for, right?)