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Author Topic: "Vitium Consensus" - Archbishop Vigano - Catholic Identity Conference 2023  (Read 10748 times)

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Offline 2Vermont

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Re: "Vitium Consensus" - Archbishop Vigano - Catholic Identity Conference 2023
« Reply #120 on: October 03, 2023, 08:01:35 AM »
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    • Quote from: SeanJohnson on October 03, 2023, 07:19:40 AM
    At the moment, the Remnant is 0 wins/7 losses in the comments section (which includes a couple great ones by one of our own).
    I just threw in a couple.....the moderator has responded to (Lad?).  As you all know, I'm not a fan of Vigano (yet), but this whole obvious anti-sede thing gets me rip-roaring mad.
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    Offline ElwinRansom1970

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    Re: "Vitium Consensus" - Archbishop Vigano - Catholic Identity Conference 2023
    « Reply #121 on: October 03, 2023, 08:07:33 AM »
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    • The Remnant editors dropped this nugget in their response to whom I assume is our esteemed CathInfo poster, Ladislaus:

    "...full roster of speakers dedicating their weekend to a symposium on unity among traditional laymen and clergy committed to remaining loyal to the see of St. Peter."

    Sedevacantism is precisely about remaining loyal to the see of St. Peter when there is an illegitimate usurper occupying that see!

    :facepalm:
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    "I distrust every idea that does not seem obsolete and grotesque to my contemporaries."
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: "Vitium Consensus" - Archbishop Vigano - Catholic Identity Conference 2023
    « Reply #122 on: October 03, 2023, 08:36:58 AM »
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    • If Matt wants to go anti-SV, that's fine, and that's his choice.  But stop beating around the bush here, saying stuff like "I have friends who are sedevacantists." ... to avoid losing some of his SV subscriber/viewer base.

    And his entire defense was disingenuous ...

    1) playing victim
    2) pretending there's some conspiracy motivated ultimately by the devil and then through "Team Vigano" (whoever they are) and even perhaps +Vigano himself
    3) feigning outrage at being accused of censorship, and then admitting he censored it due to the content

    Just be up front.  Yes, I scuttled the speech because I'm against sedevacantism and because it didn't fit with the agenda of his "unity" meeting.

    Of course, I object to his Ecuмenical "spirit", of unity for the sake of unity regardless of truth or principles.  Now, maybe his principles rule out SVism, but then make it about the principles and not about some amorphous "unity".
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    Offline Mr G

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    Re: "Vitium Consensus" - Archbishop Vigano - Catholic Identity Conference 2023
    « Reply #123 on: October 03, 2023, 08:37:51 AM »
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    • Quote from: ElwinRansom1970 on October 03, 2023, 08:07:33 AM
    The Remnant editors dropped this nugget in their response to whom I assume is our esteemed CathInfo poster, Ladislaus:

    "...full roster of speakers dedicating their weekend to a symposium on unity among traditional laymen and clergy committed to remaining loyal to the see of St. Peter."

    Sedevacantism is precisely about remaining loyal to the see of St. Peter when there is an illegitimate usurper occupying that see!

    :facepalm:
    Mr. Matt over-reacts, the Archbishop said "In this speech I will not try to give answers, but to pose a question that can no longer be postponed," The Archbishop is just asking questions not making judgments. Thus, when Mr. Matt talks about unity, he means the funds that unite in his bank account.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: "Vitium Consensus" - Archbishop Vigano - Catholic Identity Conference 2023
    « Reply #124 on: October 03, 2023, 08:39:12 AM »
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    • Quote from: ElwinRansom1970 on October 03, 2023, 08:07:33 AM
    The Remnant editors dropped this nugget in their response to whom I assume is our esteemed CathInfo poster, Ladislaus:

    "...full roster of speakers dedicating their weekend to a symposium on unity among traditional laymen and clergy committed to remaining loyal to the see of St. Peter."

    Sedevacantism is precisely about remaining loyal to the see of St. Peter when there is an illegitimate usurper occupying that see!

    :facepalm:

    Right.  What's implicit is that sedevacantism implies disloyalty to the "see of St. Peter".  Of course, they're begging the question that Bergoglio represents the "see of St. Peter", and questioning the identity of the man who happens to be sitting in the See could in fact be the greatest loyalty to the see if in fact what we're dealing with in Bergoglio is an illegitimate usurper.
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    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: "Vitium Consensus" - Archbishop Vigano - Catholic Identity Conference 2023
    « Reply #125 on: October 03, 2023, 08:56:17 AM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on October 03, 2023, 08:36:58 AM
    If Matt wants to go anti-SV, that's fine, and that's his choice.  But stop beating around the bush here, saying stuff like "I have friends who are sedevacantists." ... to avoid losing some of his SV subscriber/viewer base.

    Yes, that is true.  I think I will drop out of this conversation here and there because it's a waste of my time and spiritual energy.  When all is said and done, Michael Matt and what he does or doesn't do means nothing to me.  The ball is in Vigano's court.  What he does with it will say a lot about him, I think.
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    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: "Vitium Consensus" - Archbishop Vigano - Catholic Identity Conference 2023
    « Reply #126 on: October 03, 2023, 11:14:54 AM »
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    • 17 Remnant comments 45 minutes ago has been reduced to 15.
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    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: "Vitium Consensus" - Archbishop Vigano - Catholic Identity Conference 2023
    « Reply #127 on: October 03, 2023, 11:21:50 AM »
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    • Some websites where you WON’T see Viganò’s speech:

    1) The Remnant 
    2) Catholic Family News
    3) LifeSiteNews
    4) All SSPX websites.
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    Offline Meg

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    Re: "Vitium Consensus" - Archbishop Vigano - Catholic Identity Conference 2023
    « Reply #128 on: October 03, 2023, 12:20:22 PM »
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    • Quote from: SeanJohnson on October 03, 2023, 11:21:50 AM
    Some websites where you WON’T see Viganò’s speech:

    1) The Remnant
    2) Catholic Family News
    3) LifeSiteNews
    4) All SSPX websites.

    None of the above websites have ever supported sedevacantism or benevacantism. I'm not surprised that the Remnant wouldn't show Vigano's video. Of course many here will think that this is a heinous crime, which only goes to show that Matt was correct in not showing the video at his conference.

    I'm also not surprised that Vigano is starting to be a benevacantist. It was only a matter of time. I'm not a fan of Vigano, so I don't care one way or the other.
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    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Texana

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    Re: "Vitium Consensus" - Archbishop Vigano - Catholic Identity Conference 2023
    « Reply #129 on: October 03, 2023, 01:14:33 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on October 02, 2023, 09:29:15 PM
    He's basically long thrown in his lot with the Conciliars (departed from Traditional Catholicism) in order to broader his viewer/subscriber base and increase revenues.
    Dear Ladislaus,
    Yes!  He often brags about being confirmed by Archbishop Lefebvre, but then fails to point out that his father betrayed the Archbishop after the 1988 Consecrations.  Michael Matt recently boasted about his sense of "being strategic" in growing his business by choosing the "right causes" in "traditional Catholicism" to push for success.  See "Where Do We Stand:  Is Bergoglio the Pope?" TheRemnantVideo 
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    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: "Vitium Consensus" - Archbishop Vigano - Catholic Identity Conference 2023
    « Reply #130 on: October 03, 2023, 01:43:50 PM »
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    • Quote from: Meg on October 03, 2023, 12:20:22 PM
    None of the above websites have ever supported sedevacantism or benevacantism. I'm not surprised that the Remnant wouldn't show Vigano's video. Of course many here will think that this is a heinous crime, which only goes to show that Matt was correct in not showing the video at his conference.

    I'm also not surprised that Vigano is starting to be a benevacantist. It was only a matter of time. I'm not a fan of Vigano, so I don't care one way or the other.

    But what is interesting to me is that, excepting the SSPX, the other three outlets (and you could throw Marshall in there as well) we’re all Vigano fans, and we’re all part of the “unite the clans” mindset.

    Now they all appear to want to separate from Vigano, rather than unite.

    Interestingly, some in that crowd (eg., SSPX; Roberto de Mattei, et al) we’re already at odds with Vigano because of his position regarding V2.

    The common denominator of both groups separating from Vigano is that they’re both unwilling to separate from conciliarism:

    Some are married to the Council, like Mattei, (who ironically himself has I issues with the legitimacy of Francis), 

    Others are tied to the legitimacy of Francis, but reject the Council.

    So one way or the other, they’re all going along with the revolution, even if whining about it along the way.
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    Offline Meg

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    Re: "Vitium Consensus" - Archbishop Vigano - Catholic Identity Conference 2023
    « Reply #131 on: October 03, 2023, 01:51:43 PM »
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    • Quote from: SeanJohnson on October 03, 2023, 01:43:50 PM
    But what is interesting to me is that, excepting the SSPX, the other three outlets (and you could throw Marshall in there as well) we’re all Vigano fans, and we’re all part of the “unite the clans” mindset.

    Now they all appear to want to separate from Vigano, rather than unite.

    Interestingly, some in that crowd (eg., SSPX; Roberto de Mattei, et al) we’re already at odds with Vigano because of his position regarding V2.

    The common denominator of both groups separating from Vigano is that they’re both unwilling to separate from conciliarism:

    Some are married to the Council, like Mattei, (who ironically himself has I issues with the legitimacy of Francis),

    Others are tied to the legitimacy of Francis, but reject the Council.

    So one way or the other, they’re all going along with the revolution, even if whining about it along the way.

    The only reason for M. Matt to keep a distance from Vigano (in this one instance, so far) is because of the controversy surrounding the statement he made about Francis. Other than that, Matt has supported Vigano for awhile now.

    When M. Matt talks about uniting the clans, I don't think he has ever included sedes or benevacantists as being one of the clans. And why should he? Inviting sedevacantists to a conference would be like inviting a biker gang to grandma's birthday party. It just wouldn't go well. 
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    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Online Pax Vobis

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    Re: "Vitium Consensus" - Archbishop Vigano - Catholic Identity Conference 2023
    « Reply #132 on: October 03, 2023, 01:57:40 PM »
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    • Quote
    1) The Remnant
    2) Catholic Family News
    3) LifeSiteNews
    4) All SSPX websites.
    Add the site "One Peter Five" who posted the +Schneider article defending Francis' papacy and butchering St Bellarmine's take on papal heresy.

    Quote
    The common denominator of both groups separating from Vigano is that they’re both unwilling to separate from conciliarism:
    Yes.  And the younger generations need to be educated that the above 5 sites are similar to the mainstream media - just for indulters.  If one listens to the above, they are being lied to and manipulated to stay part of the conciliar-machine.
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    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: "Vitium Consensus" - Archbishop Vigano - Catholic Identity Conference 2023
    « Reply #133 on: October 03, 2023, 02:06:01 PM »
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    • This evening, I’ll be emailing +Vigano to see whether he’d be interested in writing a complete treatise on the pope question.

    He’d be one of a very few whom sedes and RR would take seriously (regardless of how he falls out on the subject), and one of a very few with the competence and resources to undertake such a task.
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    Offline CathSarto

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    Re: "Vitium Consensus" - Archbishop Vigano - Catholic Identity Conference 2023
    « Reply #134 on: October 03, 2023, 03:23:21 PM »
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    • Good to see Lifesite News is not afraid to publish Vigano's opinion.

      https://www.lifesitenews.com/opinion/archbishop-vigano-catholics-must-seriously-consider-the-possibility-that-francis-isnt-the-pope/?utm_source=most_recent&utm_campaign=usa
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