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Author Topic: "Vitium Consensus" - Archbishop Vigano - Catholic Identity Conference 2023  (Read 12827 times)

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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: "Vitium Consensus" - Archbishop Vigano - Catholic Identity Conference 2023
« Reply #65 on: October 02, 2023, 11:34:06 AM »
I doubt that Pope St. Pius X would take an extreme position on the matter. He just wasn't that kind of Pope.

Especially since he never gave instructions about what to do with a heretical Pope, though it would have been helpful if he would have done so.

We can argue about the later, but you missed the point, which was simply that this situation is beyond human resolution.  Whether he's already deposed or whether the Church has to declare him deposed, the problem is the same, that you'll not get more than 1% of so-called Conciliar Catholics behind the election of a new pope to replace Bergoglio.

Re: "Vitium Consensus" - Archbishop Vigano - Catholic Identity Conference 2023
« Reply #66 on: October 02, 2023, 11:55:15 AM »
So much for Michael Matt and his "Unite the Clans" baloney. And he boots out Abp Vigano because he doesn't like what he says and may lose some income stream!  


Re: "Vitium Consensus" - Archbishop Vigano - Catholic Identity Conference 2023
« Reply #67 on: October 02, 2023, 12:00:53 PM »
So much for Michael Matt and his "Unite the Clans" baloney. And he boots out Abp Vigano because he doesn't like what he says and may lose some income stream! 
:laugh2::laugh1:

Offline Ladislaus

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Re: "Vitium Consensus" - Archbishop Vigano - Catholic Identity Conference 2023
« Reply #68 on: October 02, 2023, 12:03:40 PM »
Here's Ann Barnhardt's take.  She's still clinging to the non-resignationist position.  Ann, newsflash.  Ratzinger is dead.  So he's definitely "resigned" now and no longer pope.  Then the question becomes whether the current "Universal Acceptance" of Jorge would now provide the sanatio in radice to Jorge's status.  Ann doesn't realize that the death of Ratzinger complicates her non-resignationist position.

Ann Barnhardt:
Quote
Remember, the reason Bergoglio is an Antipope is because Pope Benedict obviously never validly resigned. All of the other stuff subsequent to Pope Benedict’s invalid attempted partial resignation in February ARSH 2013 is historically interesting, and points to the fact that “something is terribly wrong”, but it isn’t the root of the problem or the FULLNESS of TRUTH. Jorge Bergoglio doesn’t need to be tried as a heretic or “deposed” because he is not and never has been the Pope.

She's pooh-poohing +Vigano's explanation for why Jorge is not legitimate, but it's something she (and other Bennyvacantists) have to address now that Ratzinger has died.

Offline Meg

Re: "Vitium Consensus" - Archbishop Vigano - Catholic Identity Conference 2023
« Reply #69 on: October 02, 2023, 12:21:06 PM »
We can argue about the later, but you missed the point, which was simply that this situation is beyond human resolution.  Whether he's already deposed or whether the Church has to declare him deposed, the problem is the same, that you'll not get more than 1% of so-called Conciliar Catholics behind the election of a new pope to replace Bergoglio.

It does seem that the situation is beyond human reasoning, and yet we still try to reason it out, each of us with our own opinion on the matter.

It may have seemed beyond human reasoning that the Arian heresy would or could be defeated. After all, the Arians tended to be a violent bunch. They kidnapped pope Liberious, and they violently attacked St. Athanasius and his followers. More than once, I think. And, most of the hierarchy were Arians. But still, Arianism was eventually defeated. It helped that a pagan emperor insisted that a Council be called to deal with the matter (if only St. Pius X would have called a council!). It helped too that saints and laymen ACTVELY worked against the Arian heresy. They didn't sit around complaining that the hierarchy were heretics.