Author Topic: "Vitium Consensus" - Archbishop Vigano - Catholic Identity Conference 2023 (Read 12824 times)

Catholic Knight · « **Reply #60 on:** October 02, 2023, 08:32:44 AM »

Quote from: Ladislaus on October 02, 2023, 07:40:50 AM

Would "universal acceptance" of a trangender female who managed to get elected pope provide a sanatio in radice for that election?

No. Neither would "universal acceptance" provide a sanatio in radice for the election of a public manifest formal heretic.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #61 on:** October 02, 2023, 09:36:37 AM »

Quote from: Catholic Knight on October 02, 2023, 08:32:44 AM

No. Neither would "universal acceptance" provide a sanatio in radice for the election of a public manifest formal heretic.

Right, that's what I was getting at. Invalid matter is invalid matter, and neither females nor non-Catholics are valid matter for the papacy.

It's one thing to argue that Universal Acceptance is some kind of guarantee of Divine Providence, and another to claim that it could sanate an illegitimate election. Apart from the issues we cited above with invalid matter, it would also render docuмents like cuм ex Apostolatus and even JP2's Universi Dominici Gregis absurd. Wojtyla could claim all he wanted that collusion would invalidate an election if subsequent acceptance would validate it anyway. This principle of sanating faulty elections is really just made up out of thin air and has no theological basis.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #62 on:** October 02, 2023, 09:43:05 AM »

Quote from: SeanJohnson on October 02, 2023, 08:20:37 AM

Lad says that Clement did FOR A TIME, and if that is true, then it seemingly works against Billot.

And, while +Vigano didn't mention them, don't forget the cases of popes St. Martin and St. Silverius.

And, while +Vigano didn't mention it, even Billot's reasoning was based on the principle that the Ecclesia Credens cannot adhere to a false rule of faith. Despite the argument among Traditional Catholics about Bellarmine vs. Cajetan/SJT, do any Traditional Catholics adhere to Bergoglio as as rule of faith? Quite the contrary. Any Catholic who still has the faith left has serious reservations about Jorge.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #63 on:** October 02, 2023, 10:21:28 AM »

At the end of the day, however, in the practical order, nothing will change. Even if you had 1% of all Catholics becoming convinced that Jorge is not the pope, they're still a minority of "official" Catholics.

Jorge's popularity numbers are high ...

And that speaks again to, "Universal Acceptance" by WHOM? Novus Ordo "Catholics", 95% of whom are, by their own polls, heretics themselves? And the "Unfavorable" numbers above are not primarily due to Jorge's heretical doctrines, but, rather, due to his handling of various sex abuse issues (such as the McCarrick situation).

Only God can fix this. If St. Pius X said in his time that "humanly speaking, the Church is finished," what would he say about the situation today?

Meg · « **Reply #64 on:** October 02, 2023, 11:19:36 AM »

Quote from: Ladislaus on October 02, 2023, 10:21:28 AM

Only God can fix this. If St. Pius X said in his time that "humanly speaking, the Church is finished," what would he say about the situation today?

I doubt that Pope St. Pius X would take an extreme position on the matter. He just wasn't that kind of Pope.

Especially since he never gave instructions about what to do with a heretical Pope, though it would have been helpful if he would have done so.

CathInfo.com

Author Topic: "Vitium Consensus" - Archbishop Vigano - Catholic Identity Conference 2023 (Read 12824 times)

Catholic Knight

Re: "Vitium Consensus" - Archbishop Vigano - Catholic Identity Conference 2023

Ladislaus

Re: "Vitium Consensus" - Archbishop Vigano - Catholic Identity Conference 2023

Ladislaus

Re: "Vitium Consensus" - Archbishop Vigano - Catholic Identity Conference 2023

Ladislaus

Re: "Vitium Consensus" - Archbishop Vigano - Catholic Identity Conference 2023

Meg

Re: "Vitium Consensus" - Archbishop Vigano - Catholic Identity Conference 2023