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Author Topic: "Vitium Consensus" - Archbishop Vigano - Catholic Identity Conference 2023  (Read 10359 times)

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Offline Quo vadis Domine

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Re: "Vitium Consensus" - Archbishop Vigano - Catholic Identity Conference 2023
« Reply #165 on: October 04, 2023, 08:18:37 PM »
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  • It's easy enough to prove that he has some sympathy for Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ. Do you want me to locate where he referred to Our Lord as Sol Invictus? That's easy enough. Or where he gave a freemasonic signature to several of his communications? This was thoroughly debated here last year. Did you miss it?

    I have no idea what the motive is exactly. Maybe he's a freemason, or maybe he wants to divide trads even further than they already are. I don't have exact proof though. Go ahead and believe that Vigano is going to save the day. You are of course free to do that. I think you'll be very disappointed though.

    I’m not sold on Vigano either, but your hatred for sedevacatism has blinded your rationality. Meg, you simply don’t think clearly.
    For what doth it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his own soul? Or what exchange shall a man give for his soul?

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: "Vitium Consensus" - Archbishop Vigano - Catholic Identity Conference 2023
    « Reply #166 on: October 04, 2023, 09:52:19 PM »
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  • I've never trusted him. I thought you liked him.

    She did ... except now that he's come out as a sedevacantist, more or less.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: "Vitium Consensus" - Archbishop Vigano - Catholic Identity Conference 2023
    « Reply #167 on: October 04, 2023, 09:53:41 PM »
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  • I haven't liked Vigano since he praised Our Lord as the 'Sol Invictus', which is a pagan and freemasonic name for Our Lord.

    :facepalm: ... the ignorance here is astounding.  I've shown where Our Lord was depicted as Sol Invictus in early Christian art.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: "Vitium Consensus" - Archbishop Vigano - Catholic Identity Conference 2023
    « Reply #168 on: October 04, 2023, 09:54:56 PM »
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  • So his frequent condemnations of Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ indicate that he’s sympathetic to Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ??

    She's suddenly buying Miser's "so mote it be" slander?  She never retracted it when it was proven to her from a Traditional Catholic Missal in Italian that the expression is a translation in Italian of "Amen".

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: "Vitium Consensus" - Archbishop Vigano - Catholic Identity Conference 2023
    « Reply #169 on: October 04, 2023, 09:56:15 PM »
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  • For all those who claim that +Vigano is trying to mislead, who's he misleading?  What's the cui boni for his statements?  So he rained on Matt's Ecuмenical kumbaya love-fest?  That's doing a service to Tradition, drawing the lines for the fence-sitters who remain attached to the Conciliar Church.


    Offline MiracleOfTheSun

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    Re: "Vitium Consensus" - Archbishop Vigano - Catholic Identity Conference 2023
    « Reply #170 on: October 04, 2023, 10:18:49 PM »
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  • Vigano knew exactly what he was doing when he submitted his video at the last minute to MM. Vigano is very craftly... Of course sedes are going to play right into whatever he's up to. Vigano tells them what they want to hear.

    Meg wanders into the weeds again with another gusty blast against sedevacantism.  Real quality stuff here, Meg. 

    Offline Yeti

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    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: "Vitium Consensus" - Archbishop Vigano - Catholic Identity Conference 2023
    « Reply #172 on: October 05, 2023, 06:02:23 AM »
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  • Wait.  What?

    Where’s all this coming from?
    I see you never got an answer to this question.  Michael Matt stated in his "How dare people say I censored Vigano even though I did" video that Vigano waited to the last minute to submit his video/transcript for the Unite the Conciliar Clan conference.  So, if someone were to take Matt's side of the story as truth, then one could question why Vigano took so long to submit it.  However, there is no proof that there was some nefarious intent on his part.  We also don't really know whether Matt's story was what actually happened either.     


    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: "Vitium Consensus" - Archbishop Vigano - Catholic Identity Conference 2023
    « Reply #173 on: October 05, 2023, 06:05:24 AM »
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  • I’m not sold on Vigano either, but your hatred for sedevacantism has blinded your rationality. Meg, you simply don’t think clearly.
    Neither am I. 

    Offline Simeon

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    Re: "Vitium Consensus" - Archbishop Vigano - Catholic Identity Conference 2023
    « Reply #174 on: October 05, 2023, 07:44:15 AM »
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  • .

    Yes, this was my explanation.

    Thank you, Yeti. I appreciate your comments. 

    Let's look at what Vigano said:

    Quote
    I believe instead that his acceptance of the papacy is invalidated, because he considers the papacy something other than what it is, like a spouse who gets married in church but excludes the specific purposes of marriage from his intention, thus making the marriage null and void precisely due to his lack of consent. Not only that: what conspirator who acts maliciously in order to ascend to an office would be so naive as to explain to those who must elect him that he intends to become Pope in order to carry out the

    I cannot read the man's mind, so I cannot tell if he is implying that he thinks there is a juridical remedy, by which Bergoglio's state of mind at the time of his "election" can be legally determined, or if he is simply describing a fact pattern upon which to base an understanding of the nature of the crime that has been committed.

    If I had to guess, I'd go with the latter. I think it's a wonderful talking point, a point of demonstrative departure.

    In a previous post on one of the two relevant threads, I mentioned that I prefer to use the term 'incapacity to receive the Office,' rather than 'defect of intention.' Incapacity suggests the ability of the trier of fact/law to arrive at proofs, based on past and present conduct. With regard to marriage, previous marriages, or medical history revealing physical incompetency to consummate, or extraneous evidence of coercion. With regard to the Papacy, does not cuм Ex revolve around the question of capacity? Does not cuм Ex lay out in detail the kinds of extraneous evidence deemed probative by the Church? 

    As I said somewhere else, this statement by Vigano is no solution to the problem. It's an attempt to knock down an iron curtain. I know not what his motives are, but it's clear that he has scored a touchdown in the arena of rhetoric. 

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: "Vitium Consensus" - Archbishop Vigano - Catholic Identity Conference 2023
    « Reply #175 on: October 05, 2023, 08:01:58 AM »
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  • I see you never got an answer to this question.  Michael Matt stated in his "How dare people say I censored Vigano even though I did" video that Vigano waited to the last minute to submit his video/transcript for the Unite the Conciliar Clan conference.  So, if someone were to take Matt's side of the story as truth, then one could question why Vigano took so long to submit it.  However, there is no proof that there was some nefarious intent on his part.  We also don't really know whether Matt's story was what actually happened either.   

    Yes, it could have been that +Vigano took a while because he himself decided somewhat late to come out with this.  I don't think he somehow "knew" that Matt would be SO busy at the conference that it would "sneak" past him.

    In terms of the "interview" with Matt, those would undoubtedly be scripted anyway, since you can tell that +Vigano just reads prepared remarks, as he's not fluent enough in English to just spontaneously rattle off answers to complicated questions.  Having been Nuncio to the US, I'm sure he's fluent enough to carry on basic conversations, but not necessarily to deal with questions of theological complexity.  He preferred not to be off the cuff with regard to so significant an announcement.

    I do kindof believe Matt's story, but he underplayed the censorship, as you said, "How dare you people say I censored +Vigano even though I censored +Vigano" and deliberately over-emphasized the "lateness" aspect.


    Offline MiracleOfTheSun

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    Re: "Vitium Consensus" - Archbishop Vigano - Catholic Identity Conference 2023
    « Reply #176 on: October 05, 2023, 09:43:37 AM »
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  • Whether Vigano was actively trying to sabotage the Clams Festival we do not know.  What we do know, however, is that Matt loves swimming in the Novus Ordo world and never the twain shall meet.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: "Vitium Consensus" - Archbishop Vigano - Catholic Identity Conference 2023
    « Reply #177 on: October 05, 2023, 09:46:18 AM »
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  • Whether Vigano was actively trying to sabotage the Clams Festival we do not know.  What we do know, however, is that Matt loves swimming in the Novus Ordo world and never the twain shall meet.

    I would welcome a sabotage of Matt's Ecuмenical kumbaya Novus Ordo lovefest, so that if it came out that it was +Vigano's intent, that would only increase the esteem I have for him.  That would mean that he's rejecting the conservative Novus Ordo wing and going more fully Traditional.

    Offline Confiteor Deo

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    Re: "Vitium Consensus" - Archbishop Vigano - Catholic Identity Conference 2023
    « Reply #178 on: October 05, 2023, 09:51:31 AM »
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  • At the Civitas Université d'été, a weekend of conferences in Pontmain, Normandy, Archbishop Vigano was due to make a live video appearance. Technical problems meant that he sent a transcript that was read by Father Joseph instead. He didn't read through it but just went ahead and read it to a room of around 200 people. Why would you have to check in advance what an invited guest was going to say, especially a bishop?

    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: "Vitium Consensus" - Archbishop Vigano - Catholic Identity Conference 2023
    « Reply #179 on: October 05, 2023, 10:45:48 AM »
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  • Quote
    Why would you have to check in advance what an invited guest was going to say, especially a bishop?
    Right.  I'm sure Matt & crew are already on 'high alert' with +Vigano, since he's been openly contradicting Schneider's b.s. and condemning V2.