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Author Topic: "Vitium Consensus" - Archbishop Vigano - Catholic Identity Conference 2023  (Read 12863 times)

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Re: "Vitium Consensus" - Archbishop Vigano - Catholic Identity Conference 2023
« Reply #15 on: October 01, 2023, 04:15:14 PM »
He calls out Jorge for heresy on the grounds of 1) Amoris Laetitia and 2) his condemnation of capital punishment.

Starting about 20 minutes in (out of 37), he's arguing from Jorge's lack of intention to be a Catholic pope, mentions Ratzinger possibly being pressured to resign, etc.  Not quite sure where he's going with it other than questioning Jorge's legitimacy due to invalid election in 2013.

He's calling out Jorge's malicious intent to "change the papacy". (23 minutes in)

That reminds me of one of Bishop Sanborn's sedeprivationist arguments that the V2 heretic popes did not intend to function as true Popes.

He's characterizing Jorge as a conscious destroyer of the Church.

Im not sure “intention” is pertinent to pontifical legitimacy (conflating sacramental theology with papal legitimacy?), but like I said, I’ve read not a word yet. 

Offline Ladislaus

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Re: "Vitium Consensus" - Archbishop Vigano - Catholic Identity Conference 2023
« Reply #16 on: October 01, 2023, 04:16:36 PM »
He's suggesting that due to Jorge's malicious agenda to destroy the papacy, that there was a "defect of consent" for him to become Pope.

He seems to reject the munus / ministerium distinction, not sure whether he means that it was wrong for Ratzinger to make that distinction ... but his intent with this is unclear, whether he's endorsing or rejecting that particular argument.


Re: "Vitium Consensus" - Archbishop Vigano - Catholic Identity Conference 2023
« Reply #17 on: October 01, 2023, 04:18:04 PM »
Yes, he rejects the notion that faulty election can be sanated by Universal Acceptance.

:popcorn:

I wonder if he realizes that recognition exposes all the other conciliar popes?

It certainly seems The Remnant did!

Offline Ladislaus

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Re: "Vitium Consensus" - Archbishop Vigano - Catholic Identity Conference 2023
« Reply #18 on: October 01, 2023, 04:23:26 PM »
That reminds me of one of Bishop Sanborn's sedeprivationist arguments that the V2 heretic popes did not intend to function as true Popes.

https://mostholytrinityseminary.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/Explanation-of-the-Thesis.pdf
Quote
The Vatican II “popes” are not true popes since they posit an obstacle to the reception the authority of Christ. Just as someone can posit an obstacle to the reception of grace from a sacrament (e.g., attachment to mortal sin in the case of Confirmation), so someone can posit an obstacle to the flow of authority from Christ. And this is true even if he has gone through all of the necessary legal steps to attain the authority. In the same way, the person who posits an obstacle to the grace of the Sacrament of Confirmation nonetheless exteriorly receives the sacrament. If the pope-elect should remove the obstacle to the flow of authority, he would become the pope, just as he who confesses his sins with true sorrow then receives the effect of the Sacrament of Confirmation.

What is this obstacle to authority? It is theintention of promulgating to the whole Church false doctrines, false liturgy, and evil disciplines, all of which constitute an essential change of the Catholic Faith.

This seems to be +Vigano's argument regarding the illegitimacy of Jorge's election, with passing mentions of ministerium/minus and the St. Gallen Mafia collusion.

Offline Ladislaus

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Re: "Vitium Consensus" - Archbishop Vigano - Catholic Identity Conference 2023
« Reply #19 on: October 01, 2023, 04:30:39 PM »
So, I just finished, and the main takeaways are that it's very clear he does not regard Jorge as a legitimate pope, or at the very least considers him to be highly doubtful, based on the notion that the 2013 election was illegitimate.  He rejects the notion that a faulty election would be "sanated" sanatio in radice by subsequent Universal Acceptance.  He believes the election and/or continuing papacy of Jorge is invalid primarily due to a defect of consent or intention, along the same lines that Bishop Sanborn outlines above, holding that Bergoglio had a malicious intention to destroy the Church and the papacy, and that prevents him from exercising the authority of St. Peter.  He also states that while we must "resist" Jorge, obeying God rather than man, that's not enough and we need to get to the root of the problem (after which he goes into why he believes that Berogoglio may be or is an illegitimate pope).  As OP stated, he comes a hair's breadth away from saying Jorge IS illegitimate, but basically indicates that it's very possible or even very likely.