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Author Topic: "Vitium Consensus" - Archbishop Vigano - Catholic Identity Conference 2023  (Read 9632 times)

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Online Ladislaus

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Re: "Vitium Consensus" - Archbishop Vigano - Catholic Identity Conference 2023
« Reply #105 on: October 02, 2023, 09:28:36 PM »
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  • 1) claiming that it was such a wonderful act of unity and that the "devil" caused this controversy
    2) refers disparagingly to "Team Vigano"
    3) says not sure if Vigano or "Team Vigano" is behind this
    4) says a lot of speakers put their reputations on the line -- this means that he had a hodge-podge of pseudo-Trads (including Novus Ordo "priests" at this conference that didn't want to be tainted by association with +Vigano's position
    5) all the speakers agreed to a theme (hogwash, since the topics were all over the map), a theme of "unifying" ... so an Ecuмenical unity based around the least common denominator
    6) claims that +Vigano didn't want to do an interview but an intervention
    7) Matt objects, saying that he has to know what it's about because we have a "theme" (again, BS, as the topics were all over the map, and included a bunch of Novus Ordites)
    8) says that he told +Vigano he'd have to know what the video was about first because he had a "commitment" to the other speakers.  READ:  other Novus Ordite speakers probably demanded there would be no "sedevacantist" types of discussions in order to participate.  Reminds me of how Roncalli refused to condemn Communism so the schismatics would attend V2
    9) first day of the conference is when the video came
    10) "incredibly" he's accused of censoring the video
    11) claims that it came on the first day of the video and that he never saw it ... but then admits that
    12) he "spot-checked" the video and found the references to "sedevacantism" ... in other words, he absolutely "censored" it based on the "sedevacantist" content, despite a minute early calling it "incredible" that he was accused of "censorship"
    13) says he has "friends" who are "sedevacantists" (where have we heard that crap before?)
    14) says he couldn't use it to end the conference because it was a 1) video, 2) with static content (i.e., vs. an interview he could guide to the topics he wanted and away from ones he wanted to avoid) and 3) [the real reason] because the topic was about a "controversial issue", which undermined the intent of the conference to form "unity" ... with the +Schneiders and the +Muellers of the world (i.e. the Conciliarists).  This represents nothing less than a total sellout to the Conciliars, the gatekeepr pseudo-/quasi- Trads
    15) admits that he can't have a "Bishop" like Stickland associated with "sedevacantism"

    Bottom Line:  he's trying to form a watered down least-common-denominator Ecuмenical "unification" of as many flavors of conservative Catholic that he could put together ... translating to the greatest possible follower base and widest audience ... to maximize profits.  And this video is damage control to prevent him from losing a large part of his financial base, Traditional Catholics.

    Again calls out "Team Vigano" (something that doesn't exist and he's made up, making it seem like a conspiracy), and blames the "devil" for sabotating this wonderful "unity".  "Unity" in WHAT, Matt?  This is the same Ecuмenical nonsense that Vatican II is built on, where we'll form a unity based on the various points people have in common ... rather than rooted in truth and in principle.

    He "blames" "sedevacantism" on Francis, as if "sedevacantism" is "blameworthy".

    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: "Vitium Consensus" - Archbishop Vigano - Catholic Identity Conference 2023
    « Reply #106 on: October 02, 2023, 09:29:15 PM »
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  • He's basically long thrown in his lot with the Conciliars (departed from Traditional Catholicism) in order to broader his viewer/subscriber base and increase revenues.


    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: "Vitium Consensus" - Archbishop Vigano - Catholic Identity Conference 2023
    « Reply #107 on: October 02, 2023, 09:31:01 PM »
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  • I saw half of it. Michael Matt claims at the time he posted this defense of himself, he hadn't even seen the Vigano video or read the statement. Highly unlikely

    He makes contradictory statements throughout his video.  He didn't view it, giving the impression he had no idea what was in it.  But then says he saw references to "sedevacantism" in a transcript (reducing not having seen it to a meaningless technicality) and that it's the reason he didn't present it at the conference, because it would offend his Novus Ordo kumbaya love-fest.

    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: "Vitium Consensus" - Archbishop Vigano - Catholic Identity Conference 2023
    « Reply #108 on: October 02, 2023, 09:33:08 PM »
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  • Why is it that truth always suffers at the expense of unity?

    THIS^^^.  His "unity" speak vs. truth and principle is nothing other than the same diabolical spirit of Vatican II that got us to where we're at in the first place.  Of course, his unity translates into $$$, since the conservative Novus Ordo base is much bigger than the truly Traditional base.  This reminds me 100% of when Roncalli agreed not to condemn Communism so he could get the schismatics to attend his "Council".

    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: "Vitium Consensus" - Archbishop Vigano - Catholic Identity Conference 2023
    « Reply #109 on: October 02, 2023, 09:34:53 PM »
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  • M-O-N-E-Y. That is what MM is really admitting, that the Trad Inc. cash flow is the motivation in suppressing Viganò's video.

    Right, he's appealing to "Trad Inc." by redefining "Trad" as including quasi-conservative (i.e. not openly heretical) types like Strickland and the Novus Ordo "priests" who appeared at his conference.


    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: "Vitium Consensus" - Archbishop Vigano - Catholic Identity Conference 2023
    « Reply #110 on: October 02, 2023, 09:38:25 PM »
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  • Great harm comes to Traditional Catholicism by this crop of grifters who have shown up to make a living off being "celebrities" ... when their only real-life skills (to get real jobs) might get them a job bagging groceries.  Since their livelihood depends on it, they have to appeal to as broad an audience as they can.

    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: "Vitium Consensus" - Archbishop Vigano - Catholic Identity Conference 2023
    « Reply #111 on: October 02, 2023, 09:39:24 PM »
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  • Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: "Vitium Consensus" - Archbishop Vigano - Catholic Identity Conference 2023
    « Reply #112 on: October 02, 2023, 10:03:38 PM »
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  • Quote
    "Unity" in WHAT, Matt?  This is the same Ecuмenical nonsense that Vatican II is built on, where we'll form a unity based on the various points people have in common ... rather than rooted in truth and in principle.
    Right.  +Vigano speaking the truth and condemning V2's errors, is forcing indulters like Matt to choose orthodoxy or conciliarism.  God will not accept lukewarm compromising on religion, doctrine and truth....he will always raise up people to preach the unadulterated and uncompromising truth.  

    Makes one wonder what side many of these "conservatives" will choose, when an ACTUAL orthodox pope is elected and starts bringing down the hammer on all things rotten in new-rome.  If you can't reject Francis' errors, how can you accept true orthodoxy?  Two sides of the same coin.


    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: "Vitium Consensus" - Archbishop Vigano - Catholic Identity Conference 2023
    « Reply #113 on: October 03, 2023, 04:27:15 AM »
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  • Interesting comments under MM’s explanation at Gloria TV:

    https://gloria.tv/share/uGfvzGeFd9vt3BdayJKQRVHz7
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: "Vitium Consensus" - Archbishop Vigano - Catholic Identity Conference 2023
    « Reply #114 on: October 03, 2023, 04:38:18 AM »
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  • Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Online ElwinRansom1970

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    Re: "Vitium Consensus" - Archbishop Vigano - Catholic Identity Conference 2023
    « Reply #115 on: October 03, 2023, 05:16:00 AM »
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  • Great harm comes to Traditional Catholicism by this crop of grifters who have shown up to make a living off being "celebrities" ... when their only real-life skills (to get real jobs) might get them a job bagging groceries.  Since their livelihood depends on it, they have to appeal to as broad an audience as they can.
    Where were these Trad Inc. celebrities before Summorum Pontificuм? They did not exist.
    One might argue them to be a "new generation" that replaced the not-so-celebrity trad leaders of the 1970s/80s/90s, but that argument falls flat.
    The old trad leaders did not make livings off of their efforts. Michael Davies was a grammar school teacher. Patrick Henry Omlor was a family man. Hutton Gibson too was a family man, although his game show winnings and Hollywood son made him a celebrity of a different sort. Frs. Wathan, Wickens, and Nelson were all original cancelled priests in the USA. Abbé Georges de Nantes and Fr. Joaquín Sáenz y Arriaga were cancelled priests in France and Mexico respectively.
    To be a trad writer was to be poor and outcast, not brining in hundreds of thousands of dollars through the media and certainly not holding conferences where half or more of the speakers are non-trads.
    "Unite the Clans" translates as (re)unite Indulters to the conservative wing of the Novus Ordo. Even if this is not a primary intention of those involved, it is the practical and final end of this effort.
    "I distrust every idea that does not seem obsolete and grotesque to my contemporaries."
    Nicolás Gómez Dávila


    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: "Vitium Consensus" - Archbishop Vigano - Catholic Identity Conference 2023
    « Reply #116 on: October 03, 2023, 05:44:42 AM »
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  • Where were these Trad Inc. celebrities before Summorum Pontificuм? They did not exist.
    One might argue them to be a "new generation" that replaced the not-so-celebrity trad leaders of the 1970s/80s/90s, but that argument falls flat.
    The old trad leaders did not make livings off of their efforts. Michael Davies was a grammar school teacher. Patrick Henry Omlor was a family man. Hutton Gibson too was a family man, although his game show winnings and Hollywood son made him a celebrity of a different sort. Frs. Wathan, Wickens, and Nelson were all original cancelled priests in the USA. Abbé Georges de Nantes and Fr. Joaquín Sáenz y Arriaga were cancelled priests in France and Mexico respectively.
    To be a trad writer was to be poor and outcast, not brining in hundreds of thousands of dollars through the media and certainly not holding conferences where half or more of the speakers are non-trads.
    "Unite the Clans" translates as (re)unite Indulters to the conservative wing of the Novus Ordo. Even if this is not a primary intention of those involved, it is the practical and final end of this effort.

    Yes, there are a few exceptions, such as Gerry Matatics and Patrick Coffin, who took huge financial hits for remaining true to their principles.  But most of those today who make very nice livings off their online celebrity status will feel the need to compromise, and to "unit the clans" and to appeal to the broadest possible audience base to maintain their means of support.  In other words, there's a serious "conflict of interest".  That's yet another reason that theology should be the domain of priests.  It's also the reason that Catholic schools were affordable before Vatican II, since they were staffed by religious and priests who weren't trying to profit from the vocation to educate children, but just needed enough for their modest basic needs.

    But the "unite the clans" movement is none other than Ecuмenism.  When you "unite", the union is defined by the greatest common factor, so everything that that all the members of said union hold in common ... which, based on Matt's guest list, basically reduces to conservative Novus Ordism with some affinity for or appreciation of the Tridentine Mass.

    We also see how, like Roncalli did with his "Ostpolitik," that these conservative Conciliar celebrities were invited (again, for name recognition, broad appeal, etc.) at the cost of this union not being able to actually promote Traditional Catholicism.

    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: "Vitium Consensus" - Archbishop Vigano - Catholic Identity Conference 2023
    « Reply #117 on: October 03, 2023, 06:04:06 AM »
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  • So, he expressed outrage over accusations of "censorship" ... and then basically admits that he censored it.  It's his conference, and his choice, so he would have been better served simply to admit that he "censored" the video and then explain why he did it.

    What's more at issue is the nature of this "union" of "clans" in the first place.

    There's also no conspiracy by "Team Vigano" but simply a lot of individuals who have come to the same conclusion or opinion.  He's attributing these criticisms to the devil and to some nefarious group named "Team Vigano" instead of realizing that many individuals came to the same conclusion on their own.  In fact, at one point, he even implied that +Vigano himself may have been behind this "organized campaign" to go after him.  So much for healing the "rupture" between himself and +Vigano.  He knows that he gets a lot "views" when he interviews +Vigano, and so that's the rupture he's most concerned about.

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: "Vitium Consensus" - Archbishop Vigano - Catholic Identity Conference 2023
    « Reply #118 on: October 03, 2023, 07:12:51 AM »
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  • So, he expressed outrage over accusations of "censorship" ... and then basically admits that he censored it.  It's his conference, and his choice, so he would have been better served simply to admit that he "censored" the video and then explain why he did it.

    What's more at issue is the nature of this "union" of "clans" in the first place.

    There's also no conspiracy by "Team Vigano" but simply a lot of individuals who have come to the same conclusion or opinion.  He's attributing these criticisms to the devil and to some nefarious group named "Team Vigano" instead of realizing that many individuals came to the same conclusion on their own.  In fact, at one point, he even implied that +Vigano himself may have been behind this "organized campaign" to go after him.  So much for healing the "rupture" between himself and +Vigano.  He knows that he gets a lot "views" when he interviews +Vigano, and so that's the rupture he's most concerned about.
    It will be interesting to see if/how Vigano responds to Matt's "clarification". 

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: "Vitium Consensus" - Archbishop Vigano - Catholic Identity Conference 2023
    « Reply #119 on: October 03, 2023, 07:19:40 AM »
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  • Initial comments at the Remnant seem not to be buying MM’s explanations either:

    https://remnantnewspaper.com/web/index.php/headline-news-around-the-world/item/6835-censoring-vigano-michael-matt-responds

    At the moment, the Remnant is 0 wins/7 losses in the comments section (which includes a couple great ones by one of our own).
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."