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Author Topic: "una cuм Sede apostolica" a fabrication?  (Read 333 times)

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Offline Geremia

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"una cuм Sede apostolica" a fabrication?
« on: August 20, 2019, 11:35:31 AM »
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  • p. 40 of the Cassiciacuм Thesis says:
    Quote from: +Guérard des Lauriers, O.P.
    Nous devons prier pour celui qui occupe materialiter le Siège apostolique, mais nous devons refuser de le considérer comme ne faisant qu'un (una cuм) avec l'Eglise Catholique. Il faut, au « Te igitur », dire: « una cuм Sede apostolica », et non: « una cuм famulo tuo papa nostro P. »
    [We need to pray for him who materialiter occupies the Apostolic See, but we must refuse to consider him as being one with (una cuм) the Catholic Church. It is necessary at the "Te igiter" to say: "una cuм Sede apostolica" and not "una cuм famulo tuo papa nostro P."
    The rubrics say to just omit the "una cuм" phrase when the See is vacant:
    Quote from: Ritus servandus incelebratione Missæ
    Ubi dicit : una cuм famulo tuo Papa nostro N., exprimit nomen Papæ : Sede autem vacante verba prædicta omittuntur.
    There is no mention of "una cuм Sede apostolica". Is this a pure fabrication of +Guérard des Lauriers, O.P.?
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    Offline Struthio

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    Re: "una cuм Sede apostolica" a fabrication?
    « Reply #1 on: August 20, 2019, 11:53:40 AM »
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  • p. 40 of the Cassiciacuм Thesis says:The rubrics say to just omit the "una cuм" phrase when the See is vacant:

    But, following the thesis, the see is not truely vacant.


    There is no mention of "una cuм Sede apostolica". Is this a pure fabrication of +Guérard des Lauriers, O.P.?

    Yes. It's a new mass of a new sect.
    Men are not bound, or able to read hearts; but when they see that someone is a heretic by his external works, they judge him to be a heretic pure and simple ... Jerome points this out. (St. Robert Bellarmine)


    Offline Geremia

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    Yes, it's a fabrication.
    « Reply #2 on: August 20, 2019, 12:04:00 PM »
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  • Yes, it seems to be a fabrication. Sedeprivationists describe it is as a preference:
    Quote from: rough transl. from the French
    Why do you prefer "una cuм Sede apostolica"?
     
    By this formula, we express our entire submission and union with the Authority of the Apostolic See, an Authority that we do not question when we affirm that the current elect does not hold it.
     
    According to Cassiciacuм's thesis, an elected person occupies the Apostolic See, which is not empty. This occupier, although remaining Pope in potentiality, is not Pope, is not the Vicar of Christ, and does not have the Authority on the Church. In these conditions, to designate the Chair instead of designating the Pope elect expresses precisely this reality of the persistence of the Apostolic See by the Existence of an elect despite not having received the authority that he should have over the church. This also expresses the persistence of the possibility of the continuation of the apostolic succession of the Church. The apostolic continuity has not been broken; it allows having, for today and for the future, a person elected or the possibility of an election, otherwise the history of the Church would stop and the gates of hell would prevail.
     
     

    Pourquoi préférer le « una cuм Sede apostolica » ?
     
    Par cette formule, nous exprimons notre entière soumission et union avec l'Autorité du Siège apostolique, Autorité que nous ne remettons pas en question lorsque nous affirmons que l'élu actuel ne la détient pas.
     
    D'après la thèse de Cassiciacuм, une personne élue occupe le Siège apostolique, qui n'est donc pas vide. Cet occupant, bien que restant Pape en puissance, n'est pas Pape, n'est pas le Vicaire du Christ et il n'a pas l'Autorite sur l'Église. Dans ces conditions, désigner le Siège à la place de désigner l'élu en tant que Pape, exprime précisément cette réalité de la persistance du Siège apostolique par l'existance d'un élu malgré qu'il n'ait pas reçu l'Autorité qu'il devrait avoir sur l'Église. Cela exprime donc aussi la persistance de la possibilité de la continuation de la succession apostolique de l'Église. La continuité apostolique n'étant pas rompue, elle permet d'avoir aujourd'hui et pour le futur, une personne élue ou la possibilité d'une élection, faute de quoi l'histoire de l'Église s'arrêterait et les portes de l'enfer prévaudraient.
    St. Bernard, preacher for 8 years against anti-pope Innocent II, o.p.n. peccatoribus.
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    Offline Geremia

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    correction
    « Reply #3 on: August 20, 2019, 12:21:44 PM »
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  • St. Bernard, preacher for 8 years against anti-pope Innocent [Anacletus] II, o.p.n. peccatoribus.
    St. Isidore e-book library: https://isidore.co/calibre