Quote from: 2Vermont

Absolutely Patti.  You've got mine as well.  Know that there are many of us in a similar situation.  My husband and I go to mass once every other month 3.5-4.0 hours away even when there is a diocesan TLM only 20-30 minutes away now.  

I am with you about avoiding the diocesan TLM. I consider the Novus Ordo priests to be doubtful so I avoid them. Now at Ridgefield, where my priest comes from, there is a former Novus Ordo priest who was not conditionally ordained. Thankfully he has not said Mass at my chapel, but he might in the future. I do not know what to do if he comes to say Mass. Would it be best to just walk out and go home if I see him there? Or would it be okay to stay for Mass but just not go to communion. I would not confess my sins to him or receive the bread he tried to consecrate for communion because he might not be a priest. I so wish the SSPX would conditionally ordain all those priests who come from the Novus Ordo. Sigh.

So, I had two sincere questions for this Vortex.  I asked them last night, and I wanted honest answers.  They did not respond, removed my questions, and closed the comments.  

This is why I do not watch ChurchMilitantTV any longer.  


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Honest questions here. I have been attending a diocesan Tridentine Latin Mass. So, it's not even FSSP. I've never really advocated SSPX, and I've often spoken out against Sedevacantism.

1. If, as Scriptures tells us, there will one day be a time when there seems to be a Counter Church--an Abomination of Desolation--then wouldn't what we are witnessing in Rome be how that ultimate end comes about?

2. St. Francis is said to have announced this following prophecy about a time of an odious mass, a non-canonically elected pope, a time when the Franciscan order is under attack, and when a group of true Catholics will be holding the Faith together, though they will be considered schismatics. Forgive the length, but I've found the entire passage compelling. If anyone has answers, particularly CMTV staff, I am eager to hear what you have to say:

Quote

"Act bravely, my Brethren; take courage, and trust in the Lord. The time is fast approaching in which there will be great trials and afflictions; perplexities and dissensions, both spiritual and temporal, will abound; the charity of many will grow cold, and the malice of the wicked will increase.

"The devils will have unusual power, the immaculate purity of our Order, and of others, will be so much obscured that there will be very few Christians who will obey the true Sovereign Pontiff and the Roman Church with loyal hearts and perfect charity. At the time of this tribulation a man, not canonically elected, will be raised to the Pontificate, who, by his cunning, will endeavour to draw many into error and death.

"Then scandals will be multiplied, our Order will be divided, and many others will be entirely destroyed, because they will consent to error instead of opposing it.

"There will be such diversity of opinions and schisms among the people, the religious and the clergy, that, except those days were shortened, according to the words of the Gospel, even the elect would be led into error, were they not specially guided, amid such great confusion, by the immense mercy of God.

"Then our Rule and manner of life will be violently opposed by some, and terrible trials will come upon us. Those who are found faithful will receive the crown of life; but woe to those who, trusting solely in their Order, shall fall into tepidity, for they will not be able to support the temptations permitted for the proving of the elect.

"Those who preserve their fervour and adhere to virtue with love and zeal for the truth, will suffer injuries and, persecutions as rebels and schismatics; for their persecutors, urged on by the evil spirits, will say they are rendering a great service to God by destroying such pestilent men from the face of the earth. But the Lord will be the refuge of the afflicted, and will save all who trust in Him. And in order to be like their Head [Jesus Christ], these, the elect, will act with confidence, and by their death will purchase for themselves eternal life; choosing to obey God rather than man, they will fear nothing, and they will prefer to perish [physically] rather than consent to falsehood and perfidy.

"Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it under foot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor, but a destroyer."

(Works of the Seraphic Father St. Francis Of Assisi, [London: R. Washbourne, 1882], pp. 248-250; underlining and paragraph breaks added.)

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Here is my statement about the matter on the ChurchMilitantTV Facebook post about the article:

Quote

I asked two sincere questions in the comments at the end of this article. I received no answer, my questions were taken down, and the comments were closed.

To his credit, at least Terry Carrol responded to my questions in the past. I've been on the fence on this matter, and I find it difficult to criticize the SSPX when it receives the support of so many cardinals, bishops, and priests.

I would like to think that if I were asking these questions to Jesus Christ Himself, at least He would answer.

Quote from: 2Vermont

Quote from: Matto

Quote from: 2Vermont

Absolutely Patti.  You've got mine as well.  Know that there are many of us in a similar situation.  My husband and I go to mass once every other month 3.5-4.0 hours away even when there is a diocesan TLM only 20-30 minutes away now.  

I am with you about avoiding the diocesan TLM. I consider the Novus Ordo priests to be doubtful so I avoid them. Now at Ridgefield, where my priest comes from, there is a former Novus Ordo priest who was not conditionally ordained. Thankfully he has not said Mass at my chapel, but he might in the future. I do not know what to do if he comes to say Mass. Would it be best to just walk out and go home if I see him there? Or would it be okay to stay for Mass but just not go to communion. I would not confess my sins to him or receive the bread he tried to consecrate for communion because he might not be a priest. I so wish the SSPX would conditionally ordain all those priests who come from the Novus Ordo. Sigh.

I would probably walk out.  

I know which priest you are speaking of and he was not only ordained in the New Rite, but the bishop who ordained him was consecrated in the New Rite.  Double whammy for sure.  That alone makes me seriously question why the SPPX thinks his ordination passes their validity test.  I *might* be able to better understand their conclusion if the bishop was consecrated in the Old Rite.

I would not walk out, least ways not until I asked him about his ordination and what the SSPX had to say about it. If the priest is not the enemy, he should be willing, if not  happy to answer your questions. Certainly since he left the bogus ordo, he understands why one would have such questions and will give you a direct answer.

When I couldn't see them before hand, I have asked priests about their ordination in the confessional before saying anything else. You do not have to make it seem like you're grilling him, before confessing, simply ask; "Father, because of the way things are these days, can I ask when you were ordained a priest and were you ordained in the new rite or the old rite?

You only want to ask one time, so be sure to be crystal clear, to not leave any room for him to answer you with a question like, "what do you mean?" so you won't be stuck giving a long explanation.

Although it can be a bit awkward sometimes, I learned most priests understand and will readily reply as if they have their answer memorized.
 
Or you can always ask one of the priests you trust. Consider that he would not want to be letting some invalidly ordained priest take his place, any more than you want to go to a Mass or receive the sacraments from him.