Author Topic: Pope Leo XIII Quashes Popular "Recognize-and-Resist" Position (Read 1745 times)

Capt McQuigg · « **Reply #5 on:** October 26, 2015, 12:42:09 PM »

Does anyone think Pope Leo XIII would be okay with the ecuмenism as practiced today in the Novus Ordo?

Would Pope Leo XIII be "on board" with the concept that other churches have the means of salvation?

Or would Pope Leo XIII tremble with the fear that perhaps Satan, after being given the 100 years of time, actually succeeded?

I think it would be problematic for sedes to quote Pope Leo XIII and apply his righteous edicts as a judgement against the R&R types. To quote Pope Leo XIII, and in small batches, cutting off the first part and cutting off the final part, and separated from the overall subject of any one of his encyclicals, these quotes can be twisted to mean just about anything. For instance, Pope Leo XIII made it clear that Catholics must be subject to the Roman Pontiff - so, are sedes?

R&R's are doing the very best they can in these times we live in. So are the sedes. So are the indults. Even in the Novus Ordo, there are bound to be perplexed souls who are doing the best they can. Pre-Vatican II, these laymen would be in grave spiritual danger but Pope John XXIII and Pope Paul VI are responsible for this state of emergency. The popes who followed them are responsible for carrying on the mission of these two men. The state of emergency is still on.

Lover of Truth · « **Reply #6 on:** October 26, 2015, 02:03:47 PM »

Quote

Does anyone think Pope Leo XIII would be okay with the ecuмenism as practiced today in the Novus Ordo?

Would Pope Leo XIII be "on board" with the concept that other churches have the means of salvation?

Or would Pope Leo XIII tremble with the fear that perhaps Satan, after being given the 100 years of time, actually succeeded?

Are these question meant to refute the SV position?

As noted in the thread we do not doubt that everyone is trying their best. Of course by "everyone" we mean everyone who is trying their best are trying their best. We don't doubt that some are not trying their best.

But the discussion is in the objective realm. What is the truth of the situation. Not whether people who are sincere are good or bad or nice or mean but whether they are correct. Some sincere are correct others are not. A sincere person who drinks arsenic thinking it was orange juice is sincerely dead regardless of his sincerity.

Let us keep the topic in the objective realm.

Hopefully we agree that the willfully blind (who mislead the sincere with non-Catholic misnomer that it is okay to disobey legitimate authority in regards to what they bind on the Church) are not to be applauded for remaining in their ignorance.

Capt McQuigg · « **Reply #7 on:** October 27, 2015, 04:55:55 PM »

Quote from: Lover of Truth

Hopefully we agree that the willfully blind (who mislead the sincere with non-Catholic misnomer that it is okay to disobey legitimate authority in regards to what they bind on the Church) are not to be applauded for remaining in their ignorance.

The willfully blind are not ignorant. They may actually be malicious.

As for the poor chap who died drinking arsenic, that's much better for the soul than the Novus Ordo and the current practice of ecuмenism.

As for objective truth, you are right. We don't know for certain what Pope Leo XIII would think of the state of the Church today. But does anyone think he would be happy to see it as it is?

Gregory I · « **Reply #8 on:** October 27, 2015, 08:40:49 PM »

Clearly in times of normality is this to apply. (Yoda voice)

But when the shepherds are wolves, our job is to refuse them.

Let the fathers speak:

It is a commandment of the Lord that we should not be silent when the Faith is in peril. So, when it is a matter of the Faith, one cannot say, ‘What am I? A priest, a ruler, a soldier, a farmer, a poor man? I have no say or concern in this matter.’ Alas! the stones shall cry out, and you remain silent and unconcerned? St. Theodore the Studite, Epistle Eighty-One, PG 99:1321

But though we, or an angel from Heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be anathema. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that which ye have received, let him be anathema’ [Galatians 1:8-9]. I shall judge the bishop and the layperson. The sheep are rational and not irrational, so that no layman may ever say that, ‘I am a sheep, and not a shepherd, and I give no account of myself, but the shepherd shall see to it, and he alone shall pay the penalty for me.’ For even as the sheep that follows not the good shepherd shall fall to the wolves unto its own destruction, so too it is evident that the sheep that follows the evil shepherd shall acquire death; for he shall utterly devour it. Therefore, it is required that we flee from destructive shepherds Apostolic Constitutions, 10:19, PG 1:633

Not only if one possesses rank or knowledge is one obliged to strive to speak and to teach the doctrines of orthodoxy, but even if one be a disciple in rank, one is obliged to speak the truth boldly and openly Letter Two (Book Two) to Monastics Saint Theodore the Studite, PG 99:1120b

Submit not yourselves to monastics, nor to presbyters, who teach lawless things and evilly propound them. And why do I say only monastics or presbyters? Follow not even after bishops who guilefully exhort you to do and say and believe things that are not profitable. What pious man will keep silence, or who will remain altogether at peace? For silence means consent. Oftentimes war is known to be praiseworthy, and a battle proves to be better than a peace that harms the soul. For it is better to separate ourselves from them who do not believe aright than to follow them in evil concord, and by our union with them separate ourselves from God St. Meletius the Confessor