Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: "Removing All Doubt"  (Read 15760 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Nonno

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 122
  • Reputation: +1/-0
  • Gender: Male
"Removing All Doubt"
« Reply #15 on: June 26, 2011, 02:48:35 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Hobbledehoy
    Praised be the miraculous Infant of Prague that Rev. Fr. Ramolla's immigration case was resolved successfully!

    I don't get this idea that a "miracle" occurred with the Fr. Ramolla. I have always understood that wherever there is a miracle, it is something considered naturally impossible. What is so impossible that occurred?

    Offline SJB

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 5171
    • Reputation: +1932/-17
    • Gender: Male
    "Removing All Doubt"
    « Reply #16 on: June 26, 2011, 02:07:02 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Nonno
    Quote from: Hobbledehoy
    Praised be the miraculous Infant of Prague that Rev. Fr. Ramolla's immigration case was resolved successfully!

    I don't get this idea that a "miracle" occurred with the Fr. Ramolla. I have always understood that wherever there is a miracle, it is something considered naturally impossible. What is so impossible that occurred?


    I don't think Hobbledehoy was saying what happened was a miracle, it was merely attributed to the miraculous Infant of Prague.
    It would be comparatively easy for us to be holy if only we could always see the character of our neighbours either in soft shade or with the kindly deceits of moonlight upon them. Of course, we are not to grow blind to evil


    Offline Nonno

    • Newbie
    • *
    • Posts: 122
    • Reputation: +1/-0
    • Gender: Male
    "Removing All Doubt"
    « Reply #17 on: June 26, 2011, 04:03:18 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Thanks for your input, SJB, but I look forward to Hobbledehoy explaining his own words.

    But, why does Fr. Ramolla publish it as a miracle? What was this thing that happened that was naturally impossible?

    Offline gladius_veritatis

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 8187
    • Reputation: +2551/-1123
    • Gender: Male
    "Removing All Doubt"
    « Reply #18 on: June 26, 2011, 05:26:09 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • It is possible that he was, as many do, using the term loosely.  You could always contact Fr. Ramolla and ask him about it.
    "Fear God, and keep His commandments: for this is all man."

    Offline Nonno

    • Newbie
    • *
    • Posts: 122
    • Reputation: +1/-0
    • Gender: Male
    "Removing All Doubt"
    « Reply #19 on: June 26, 2011, 06:08:59 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Sorry, every time I see Catholics use the term, they always use it strictly for what it means in Catholicism. Why would Fr. Ramolla use it loosely, like NPR or FOX?


    Offline gladius_veritatis

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 8187
    • Reputation: +2551/-1123
    • Gender: Male
    "Removing All Doubt"
    « Reply #20 on: June 26, 2011, 06:11:58 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Ask him :)

    You said you'd like to hear Hobble answer for Hobble, so...why not let Fr. Ramolla answer for Fr. Ramolla?  IOW, why are you asking us what another man meant?
    "Fear God, and keep His commandments: for this is all man."

    Offline Nonno

    • Newbie
    • *
    • Posts: 122
    • Reputation: +1/-0
    • Gender: Male
    "Removing All Doubt"
    « Reply #21 on: June 26, 2011, 06:27:55 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • I guess I can try to ask, sure.

    Don't you find it odd for a Catholic to use "miracle" in a loose manner, especially a priest having traditional training? Which do you think is more similar to Fr. Ramolla's situation...

    "I was pretty sure I would get my driver's  license, but I prayed and it was a miracle I passed!"

    OR

    "It was likely I would not pass the driver's test, but prayed a novena and it was a miracle I passed!"

    Offline Hobbledehoy

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 3746
    • Reputation: +4806/-6
    • Gender: Male
    "Removing All Doubt"
    « Reply #22 on: June 26, 2011, 07:16:48 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Nonno
    I don't get this idea that a "miracle" occurred with the Fr. Ramolla. I have always understood that wherever there is a miracle, it is something considered naturally impossible. What is so impossible that occurred?


    As SJB has clarified, I was merely attributing the successful resolution of Rev. Fr. Ramolla's immigration case to the intervention of the Miraculous Infant Jesus of Prague, which is (if memory serves aright) the correct title for the celebrated statue of the Divine Infant venerated in Prague.

    I am well are that terms such as "miracle" are used quite too loosely in common speech, just as the word "faith," or "hope," or "charity."

    However, what many fail to consider is the fact that no individual person upon the earth can do any good without the assistance of actual grace, which is inherently miraculous in itself as it is supernatural in the strict sense of the word. So the mere fact that you may recite devoutly the Angelical Salutation or invoke the Most Holy Name of Jesus, for example, is a far greater prodigy than conquering the entire round orb of the earth, or raising the dead to life: there are countless of souls who never attain to even this grace, and yet we have this grace by the mysterious designs of Divine Providence.

    One ought always to be grateful for the graces and lights to which one attains, though through no merit of one's own but by the infinite and eternal charity of God and the infinite merits of Our Lord. We ought always to ascribe all good to God, even that good which is accessible by the use of man's natural faculties and powers. God does not owe it to Himself to give us anything but the reprobation we deserve in having insulted His divine majesty by original and actual sin. The fact that we can draw breath whilst we read these words is proof that we are preserved by the an ineffably clement God, in Whom "we live, and move, and are" (Acts ch. xvii., 28), for we have no right to existence and preservation, and much less to election to grace and glory and all its concomitant graces, something belonging to the infinitely superior order of the supernatural.
    Please ignore all that I have written regarding sedevacantism.


    Offline gladius_veritatis

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 8187
    • Reputation: +2551/-1123
    • Gender: Male
    "Removing All Doubt"
    « Reply #23 on: June 26, 2011, 09:56:48 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Nonno
    I guess I can try to ask, sure.


    It would seem the wisest course in this case, if you are so inclined.
    "Fear God, and keep His commandments: for this is all man."

    Offline Nonno

    • Newbie
    • *
    • Posts: 122
    • Reputation: +1/-0
    • Gender: Male
    "Removing All Doubt"
    « Reply #24 on: June 27, 2011, 12:59:57 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • I am satisfied already that the answer will be, at the very least, the meaning of "miracle" in its secular usage. (I have decided it is not necessary to seek out and bother the priest.) That is to say, a wonder, a surprise, a rarity. For instance, if a baby crawls across a highway during rush hour unharmed, with no accidents caused, then I can see a newspaper saying it was a "miracle".

    I think it's an abuse of the term when a Catholic priest says he prayed a devotion, and an answer to his prayer was "a miracle". It just doesn't fit to use a secular meaning when the subject matter is particularly religious. Catholics don't traditionally use "miracle" in regard to answered prayers unless what occurs is truly not natural and normally impossible.

    Anyway, we have this priest who may get deported to his home country, but the gov't decides he can stay in the US. Why is this such a "wonder", "surprise" or "rarity" in his case? He fully expected to be deported??

    Offline gladius_veritatis

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 8187
    • Reputation: +2551/-1123
    • Gender: Male
    "Removing All Doubt"
    « Reply #25 on: June 27, 2011, 05:25:34 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Nonno
    I am satisfied already that the answer will be...


    Okay.

    Quote
    He fully expected to be deported??


    Perhaps he will tell you.  I do not think anyone here can speak intelligently about what Fr. Ramolla did or did not expect.  Ask him :)

    [FWIW, it seems crystal clear that the outcome was decidedly unexpected to Fr C.]
    "Fear God, and keep His commandments: for this is all man."


    Offline Pyrrhos

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 445
    • Reputation: +341/-0
    • Gender: Male
    "Removing All Doubt"
    « Reply #26 on: June 27, 2011, 05:27:51 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Nonno
    Anyway, we have this priest who may get deported to his home country, but the gov't decides he can stay in the US. Why is this such a "wonder", "surprise" or "rarity" in his case? He fully expected to be deported??


    At least Cekada said that he will be...
    If you are a theologian, you truly pray, and if you truly pray, you are a theologian. - Evagrius Ponticus

    Offline Nonno

    • Newbie
    • *
    • Posts: 122
    • Reputation: +1/-0
    • Gender: Male
    "Removing All Doubt"
    « Reply #27 on: June 27, 2011, 09:36:36 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: gladius_veritatis
    Quote from: Nonno
    I am satisfied already that the answer will be...


    Okay.

    Quote
    He fully expected to be deported??


    Perhaps he will tell you.  I do not think anyone here can speak intelligently about what Fr. Ramolla did or did not expect.  Ask him :)

    [FWIW, it seems crystal clear that the outcome was decidedly unexpected to Fr C.]


    I beg to differ. I think it would appear decidedly unintelligent for anyone to say Fr. Ramolla didn't use the word for what it clearly means, at least in its secular sense.  I am quite certain the outcome was unexpected for BOTH priests: Fr. C surprised in displeased way, Fr. Ramolla in a pleased way. Both thought it was probably not going to happen. The very description by Fr. Ramolla of "miracle" shows this in a crystal clear way. Modernist mentality is to doubt our senses and to argue about ordinary word usage.

    Offline gladius_veritatis

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 8187
    • Reputation: +2551/-1123
    • Gender: Male
    "Removing All Doubt"
    « Reply #28 on: June 27, 2011, 09:55:16 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • You may beg and you may differ until the cows come home and your panties are in a bunch.  That is your business.

    If the only thing you can say about the article is in reference a word having been used in a way of which you disapprove, then you either did not read the article, or want to draw attention away from the evil deeds of Cekada by focussing disproportionately upon meaningless minutiae.
    "Fear God, and keep His commandments: for this is all man."

    Offline gladius_veritatis

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 8187
    • Reputation: +2551/-1123
    • Gender: Male
    "Removing All Doubt"
    « Reply #29 on: June 27, 2011, 10:04:42 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Nonno
    I think it would appear decidedly unintelligent for anyone to say Fr. Ramolla didn't use the word for what it clearly means, at least in its secular sense.


    FWIW, I said no one can speak intelligently about what Fr. Ramolla did or did not expect.  As for your hang up, I am not very worried or interested.  You, however, seem to have a gnat caught in your camel-sized throat.  Perhaps you should contact Fr. Ramolla and share your concerns.  He is an open and amiable man and is likely o appreciate your concerns.

    Quote
    Modernist mentality is to doubt our senses and to argue about ordinary word usage.


    I am not arguing about word usage -- you are, rather interminably.
    "Fear God, and keep His commandments: for this is all man."