Author Topic: "Pope" incenses тαℓмυd (Read 3340 times)

Diego · « **Reply #15 on:** October 29, 2011, 04:53:38 PM »

Quote from: Nishant2011

Now a cleric can resist such a Pope, to his face, as St.Paul did. But I do not think that applies straightaway to the laity.

Thus, St.Catherine,
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"Even if the Pope were Satan incarnate, we ought not to raise up our heads against him, but calmly lie down to rest on his bosom. He who rebels against our Father is condemned to death, for that which we do to him we do to Christ: we honor Christ if we honor the Pope; we dishonor Christ if we dishonor the Pope."

And yet St. Catherine was not a cleric and also said this in a letter to Pope Gregory XI:

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“Alas, Most Holy Father! At times, obedience to you leads to eternal damnation.”

Nishant · « **Reply #16 on:** October 30, 2011, 01:34:51 PM »

SS, cool. :-)

Diego, yeah, I said I'm not sure about the role of the laity, but that is how I understood St.Catherine's statement. How would you understand it? Interesting that St.Catherine thought that obedience to a Pope could lead to damnation. But I'm not saying we should imitate what the Popes do, just that we should not rebel against those we recognize as Popes, on account of their seat. We can believe that their conduct is erroneous or scandalous or their non-binding opinions worthy of disobedience. This is what St.Catherine appears to have done, but respectfully.

LordPhan · « **Reply #17 on:** October 30, 2011, 02:51:56 PM »

Quote from: Nishant2011

SS, cool. :-)

Diego, yeah, I said I'm not sure about the role of the laity, but that is how I understood St.Catherine's statement. How would you understand it? Interesting that St.Catherine thought that obedience to a Pope could lead to damnation. But I'm not saying we should imitate what the Popes do, just that we should not rebel against those we recognize as Popes, on account of their seat. We can believe that their conduct is erroneous or scandalous or their non-binding opinions worthy of disobedience. This is what St.Catherine appears to have done, but respectfully.

In the general forum I posted the Summa on Obedience, you should read it. You must always obey God First and never anyone who contradicts God. You are required to disobey a superior if he is in error or contradicts God's laws in any way on pain of sin. That is the Catholic belief on true obedience.

Nishant · « **Reply #18 on:** October 30, 2011, 05:31:45 PM »

Quote from: LordPhan

In the general forum I posted the Summa on Obedience, you should read it. You must always obey God First and never anyone who contradicts God. You are required to disobey a superior if he is in error or contradicts God's laws in any way on pain of sin. That is the Catholic belief on true obedience.

Thanks, I'll do that just now. But, here's the thing - I know we can, and sometimes must, disobey the Pope's non-binding opinions that he may espouse as private person. But Pastor Aeternus seems to say that it is true obedience itself that requires us to be subject to the Roman Pontiff in issues concerning the government of the Church.

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Wherefore we teach and declare that, by divine ordinance, the Roman Church possesses a pre-eminence of ordinary power over every other Church, and that this jurisdictional power of the Roman Pontiff is both episcopal and immediate. Both clergy and faithful, of whatever rite and dignity, both singly and collectively, are bound to submit to this power by the duty of hierarchical subordination and true obedience, and this not only in matters concerning faith and morals, but also in those which regard the discipline and government of the Church throughout the world.

PetrusPrimus · « **Reply #19 on:** November 01, 2011, 12:36:20 PM »

Quote from: PetrusPrimus

I remember seeing a video with one of the antipopes venerating the тαℓмυd, which calls the Mother of God a whore and Christ a worlock, among other blasphemies. Could I be remembering this wrong, or maybe he just bowed to it there in the Jєωιѕн ѕуηαgσgυє? What the source and point in the source this was would be helpful. Thanks.

Still wondering if someone can tell me where either of these men incensed or venerated the тαℓмυd.

Not that they didn't apostasize in 100 different ways even before they were pope (sic).

Stephen Francis · « **Reply #20 on:** November 01, 2011, 01:52:53 PM »

I'm not sure about VENERATING or incensing a copy of the filthy thing, but Wojtyla praised the тαℓмυd as "putting Sacred Scripture into practice".

Ratzinger quoted from the Babylonian тαℓмυd in a message before French (I think) rabbis.

Either way, these men lend credence to a collection of writings that are blasphemous and disgusting.

How on earth someone could claim to venerate the chaste St. Joseph and then refer to his spouse as (it's unprintable when it's in reference to Our Lady; I can't even bring myself to type it).

These men were heretics and not to be obeyed in the slightest. I wouldn't trust Ratzinger to tell me his name was Joseph.

Immaculate Heart of Mary, triumph soon.

Sacred Heart of Jesus, have mercy on us.