Author Topic: "In Portugal the dogma of the faith will always be preserved." (Read 3991 times)

MyrnaM · « **on:** March 14, 2011, 08:40:21 AM »

It would be interesting if anyone has any insights on this one. Raoul brought this up on another thread and got me to thinking.

The word "preserve" just means to be kept alive, it doesn't mean that everyone in Portugal will be living the Faith.

Our Lady might have told this to the children so they will not lose hope. Hope for us all, that there will be places in the world where the Faith will be kept alive. By her mentioning only Portugal does not mean it won't be kept alive in other places in the world, but Portugal was the place best known to the children, their home. After all she was speaking to them at the time.

We seem to think that just because Our Lady mentioned Portugal it has to be the PERFECT place for the Catholic Faith. In reality, the devil is there more so than other places, since he too heard her words. The truth is she did appear there and gave her message, now it is up to us to obey her requests, and trust that in Portugal the Faith somewhere, and in someplaces the Faith is very much alive and preserved.

stevusmagnus · « **Reply #1 on:** March 14, 2011, 10:06:31 AM »

I've had a personal theory on this for some time.

I tried to think of what made Portugal quasi-unique and came up empty. That is until I read that only in Portugal and in Poland were the words of consecration of the wine in the NO Mass, "pro multis" translated correctly as "for many". In all other vernacular translations "pro multis" was deliberately mistranslated as "for all" or something similar.

This is important for two reasons.

Firstly, the mistranslation casts at least some doubt as to the validity of the vernacular NO consecration. Thus the dogma of the Eucharist (transubstantiation) would be preserved in all Masses in Portugal, if indeed the mistranslation invalidates.

Secondly, the mistranslation implies universal salvation. "For many" preserves the dogmas relating to salvation and that Hell exists and is inhabited. This would go hand in hand with Our Lady showing the children the vision of Hell.

Anyway, that's the closest explanation I've come up with to figuring it out...

Catholic Samurai · « **Reply #2 on:** March 14, 2011, 11:29:55 AM »

For all we know, Portugal may undergo some sort of great religious revival while the rest of the nations of the world still wallow in darkness.

We really wont know until it happens, and I dont think we will have to wait too much longer.

Also, while it may not qualify for the label of Catholic Prophecy, Yves Dupont notes in his book that Nostradamus (a Jєωιѕн magician) predicted that a particular nation in the West would come to the aid of the Pope militarily. Dupont states that the name of the country that was given can either be translated as Portugal or America.

Personally, I'd put my money on Portugal.

Portugal has actually consecrated itself to the Immaculate Heart at least twice.

gladius_veritatis · « **Reply #3 on:** March 14, 2011, 11:33:25 AM »

Quote from: stevusmagnus

Firstly, the mistranslation casts at least some doubt as to the validity of the vernacular NO consecration.

As you likely know, a doubtful sacrament is to be taken as no sacrament at all.

Quote

Secondly, the mistranslation implies universal salvation.

Agreed, which is why so many in the NO believe this, or have strong leanings toward the idea. Worship reflects belief, but it can also create/influence it.

TKGS · « **Reply #4 on:** March 14, 2011, 11:51:03 AM »

Quote from: stevusmagnus

I've had a personal theory on this for some time.

I tried to think of what made Portugal quasi-unique and came up empty. That is until I read that only in Portugal and in Poland were the words of consecration of the wine in the NO Mass, "pro multis" translated correctly as "for many". In all other vernacular translations "pro multis" was deliberately mistranslated as "for all" or something similar.

This is important for two reasons.

Firstly, the mistranslation casts at least some doubt as to the validity of the vernacular NO consecration. Thus the dogma of the Eucharist (transubstantiation) would be preserved in all Masses in Portugal, if indeed the mistranslation invalidates.

Secondly, the mistranslation implies universal salvation. "For many" preserves the dogmas relating to salvation and that Hell exists and is inhabited. This would go hand in hand with Our Lady showing the children the vision of Hell.

Anyway, that's the closest explanation I've come up with to figuring it out...

I find this a pretty good explanation, if it is true that the words of Consecration in the New Order were translated correctly. Assuming the fact (I, personally, can't confirm it as I don't know Portuguese nor have I actually ever seen a Portuguesen "sacramentary" or translation.

But I also think it is important to note that the sentence is not a simple declarative sentence. The actual sentence is always reported as being, "In Portugal, the dogma of the faith will always be preserved, etc."

Clearly, this is only the first clause of a complete sentence in which we do not have access to the remainder. Many people presume that it is the first clause of the Third Secret. In any event, there are no public statements as to what the "etc." refers.

For this reason, I never presume to interpret only a part of the sentence. I think speculation of this clause is akin to speculating on the meaning of half a Scripture verse.