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Author Topic: "Holy Spirit" and "Holy Ghost"  (Read 3546 times)

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Offline Maria-Bernada

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"Holy Spirit" and "Holy Ghost"
« on: August 31, 2009, 03:02:37 AM »
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    • While there is nothing inherently wrong with saying "spirit" instead of "ghost", "ghost" was used by practically everyone just prior to the 1960's. Why the sudden change? I believe it has something to do with some sort of ecuмenical bond with the New Agers. "Spirit" seems much more "New-Age-Friendly" than "ghost".
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    Offline gladius_veritatis

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    "Holy Spirit" and "Holy Ghost"
    « Reply #1 on: August 31, 2009, 03:22:49 AM »
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    • Look it up in a Latin dictionary.  The word "ghost"/"Ghost" is not even mentioned.

    Am I saying Ghost is actually WRONG?  No (just as you are not saying Spirit is wrong), but I am saying Spirit is certainly JUST FINE (and even, arguably, more accurate).  Veni Sancte Spiritus...

    Demons, wicked men and evil societies MUST co-opt certain good things/words, as evil has no real existence of its own.
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    Offline Maria-Bernada

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    "Holy Spirit" and "Holy Ghost"
    « Reply #2 on: August 31, 2009, 03:27:18 AM »
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    • Quote from: gladius_veritatis
    Look it up in a Latin dictionary.  The word "ghost"/"Ghost" is not even mentioned.

    Am I saying Ghost is actually WRONG?  No (just as you are not saying Spirit is wrong), but I am saying Spirit is certainly JUST FINE (and even, arguably, more accurate).  Veni Sancte Spiritus...

    Demons, wicked men and evil societies MUST co-opt certain good things/words, as evil has no real existence of its own.


    The purpose of the thread is not to discuss which term is better, or more accurate (although wouldn't "sanctifying breath" be most accurate?), but to discuss the intent behind the sudden change in society.
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    Offline gladius_veritatis

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    "Holy Spirit" and "Holy Ghost"
    « Reply #3 on: August 31, 2009, 04:16:44 AM »
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    • Quote from: Maria-Bernada
    The purpose of the thread is...to discuss the intent behind the sudden change in society.


    The intent behind the (orchestrated) change in society is plain: Destruction of all that is good and beautiful in this world.  As to whether or not the change of this translation is part of that, I cannot speak with any real knowledge.  Can anyone do so?  Some may speculate, and that is perfectly allowable, but any degree of certitude will likely elude you on this one.
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    Offline gladius_veritatis

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    "Holy Spirit" and "Holy Ghost"
    « Reply #4 on: August 31, 2009, 04:25:28 AM »
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    • Please understand that I do NOT seek to discourage you, nor anyone else, from speculating about this particular point.  Do as you see fit.  Just don't be surprised if no real consensus is reached.  Perhaps such is not even the goal, but to hear the thoughts of others?  Fair enough.  Carry on...

    Btw, the change from "for many" to "for all" in place of "pro multis" is definitely worth serious consideration.  That is/was a definite case of mutilation for purposes of subversion.

    Godspeed.
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    Offline gladius_veritatis

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    "Holy Spirit" and "Holy Ghost"
    « Reply #5 on: August 31, 2009, 04:30:50 AM »
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    • As far as semantic warfare, its use for the destabilization of a society, etc., the change could have been made simply to add even more change to an already-turbulent era.

    What I mean is: Why not throw in some perfectly good changes (even where the change might truly be to something "better"), along with the clearly nefarious ones, simply to add to the atmosphere of confusion and instability?
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    Offline Maria-Bernada

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    "Holy Spirit" and "Holy Ghost"
    « Reply #6 on: August 31, 2009, 05:43:31 AM »
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    • Quote from: gladius_veritatis
    Perhaps such is not even the goal, but to hear the thoughts of others?  Fair enough.  Carry on...


    Yes. I believe there was an agenda behind it. The reason "ghost" originally became popular centuries ago, I don't know. But I believe the reason "spirit" has become popular since the 60's is because society (by society I mean those people from the 60's onward who call themselves Catholic) thought it'd be good for false ecuмenism with New Age pagans and possibly Evangelical Protestants.
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    Offline gladius_veritatis

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    "Holy Spirit" and "Holy Ghost"
    « Reply #7 on: August 31, 2009, 05:47:11 AM »
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    • You MAY be right, and I have no problem granting that you are.  At the very least, it added, however, negligibly, to the instability during an already-tumultuous era.
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    Offline gladius_veritatis

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    "Holy Spirit" and "Holy Ghost"
    « Reply #8 on: August 31, 2009, 05:48:01 AM »
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    • Quote from: gladius_veritatis
    ...it added, however, negligibly...


    Please ignore the second comma in the words above.
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    Offline Maria-Bernada

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    "Holy Spirit" and "Holy Ghost"
    « Reply #9 on: August 31, 2009, 06:02:56 AM »
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    • Gladius, I thank you for your responses, but in all charity, please stop speaking in the way you do. I'm a simple person. I don't like to feel like I'm reading philosophy when I'm talking to people.
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    Offline gladius_veritatis

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    "Holy Spirit" and "Holy Ghost"
    « Reply #10 on: August 31, 2009, 07:56:47 AM »
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    • You have posted too much in your short time here that is on too high a level for me to take the "Please, I'm just a simple person" stuff very seriously.  Although it is always hard to "read" people across such a medium, I have a strong feeling that you are, for whatever reason, acting disingenuously on this one.

    What have I said in this thread that was "too philosophical", etc?  Tell me, and I shall put it into other, more simple words.  After all, why did you not just ask me to do so, rather than implying that you are a just a 'little ole simpleton' while I am (too?) complex, abstract, etc?
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    Offline Lover of Truth

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    "Holy Spirit" and "Holy Ghost"
    « Reply #11 on: August 31, 2009, 11:20:22 AM »
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    • Here is my opinion for what it is worth.

    Firstly, I prefer Holy Ghost merely because that is what was said before 1960 as seemingly every change that happened since under the guise of Cathoicism was for the worse.

    Secondly, because the Protestants say "Holy Spirit".

    Thirdly, when trying to figure out the same question the following (which will be dissapointing to those hoping to be enlightened) is what I came up with.

    They called the Third Person of the Holy Trinity "Ghost" to distinguish Him from the Father who is also a Pure Spirit and Holy.  Heck, you could even say He is the Holy Spirit.  

    Sorry, that's all I have. :sleep:
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    Offline Matthew

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    "Holy Spirit" and "Holy Ghost"
    « Reply #12 on: August 31, 2009, 11:47:40 AM »
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    • It certainly throws confusion into the mix, and has a "tower of Babel" - like result among groups of Catholics, especially from different generations.

    If I were to say the Rosary with some Novus Ordo Catholics, it would throw several people off when it comes time to say the "Glory Be" or the "Sign of the Cross".

    When a Novus Ordo Catholic reads an old book, and sees all this mention of the "Holy Ghost" it will turn him off as strange -- a link to the past is lost. Likewise when he hears his grandma/grandpa praying the Rosary.

    It's a needless change, done to inject confusion into an already turbulent time, as Gladius suggested.

    Holy Ghost is from Heiliger Geist, German for Holy Ghost or Sancte Spiritus. Holy Spirit is taking the German word for Holy and the Latin word for Spirit.

    Matthew
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    Offline Belloc

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    "Holy Spirit" and "Holy Ghost"
    « Reply #13 on: August 31, 2009, 12:10:15 PM »
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    • In Eastern Rite, have heard Holy Spirit and Paraclete used inter-changeably.......I have grown up in Latin Rite with "spirit".could be generational as aopposed to a plot of some sort, but....
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    Offline Caminus

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    "Holy Spirit" and "Holy Ghost"
    « Reply #14 on: August 31, 2009, 01:45:17 PM »
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    • "Spirit" is from the Greek, "Ghost" from the Latin.  That's why it has always been popular among english speaking Latins.  They've also abused the word "ghost" in restricting it to a disembodied soul.  They've abused the word "science" and "religion" and just about every other catholic word.  
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