Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: Man of Providence  (Read 2985 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Emerentiana

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1420
  • Reputation: +1194/-17
  • Gender: Female
Man of Providence
« Reply #15 on: November 24, 2010, 02:34:15 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Belloc
    Quote from: Dawn
    Quote from: obediens
    Dawn, please tell me what was "crap" about how I responded to Emerentiana? I asked a sincere question. Thank you!


    Because I know all about the cult you are pushing. And I know that it will take nothing less than all of the Bishops in the World, from Pivarunus, to WIlliamson to McKenna accepting your bishop as the only one in the world. And, you hide behind your simple sweet ways but really are messing with people who are already being whipsawed by the false Church and looking for an answer. Does anyone here, beside you of course, think the only Bishop in the World would reside in America in New York State?


    appranetly, he consecrated two other fellows as bishops, so he and those two only 3 left in the world, so says Vezelis I guess:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Vezelis


    Bishop George Musey was our acting Bishop after we booted Schukardt.  He "reordained"   all of our existing  priests, so the mess was straightened out in the CMRI.  So, Bishop Musey consecrated Bishop VZ?  Didnt know that...thanks for the info, Belloc.

    Each trad group has stories of its evolution!

    Offline Belloc

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 6600
    • Reputation: +615/-5
    • Gender: Male
    Man of Providence
    « Reply #16 on: November 24, 2010, 02:37:15 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Emerentiana
    Quote from: Belloc
    Quote from: Dawn
    Quote from: obediens
    Dawn, please tell me what was "crap" about how I responded to Emerentiana? I asked a sincere question. Thank you!


    Because I know all about the cult you are pushing. And I know that it will take nothing less than all of the Bishops in the World, from Pivarunus, to WIlliamson to McKenna accepting your bishop as the only one in the world. And, you hide behind your simple sweet ways but really are messing with people who are already being whipsawed by the false Church and looking for an answer. Does anyone here, beside you of course, think the only Bishop in the World would reside in America in New York State?


    appranetly, he consecrated two other fellows as bishops, so he and those two only 3 left in the world, so says Vezelis I guess:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Vezelis


    Bishop George Musey was our acting Bishop after we booted Schukardt.  He "reordained"   all of our existing  priests, so the mess was straightened out in the CMRI.  So, Bishop Musey consecrated Bishop VZ?  Didnt know that...thanks for the info, Belloc.

    Each trad group has stories of its evolution!


    does it bother anyone that there as a clergyman that the laity "booted out", installed another leader who had to re-consecrate priests?? does this not bother anyone?

    and why re-consecrate?

    Not picking  a fight, but to me this sounds maddening, a little Protestant and very unsavory all in all.....like the NO NewChurch, but in reverse, still, oddly unsettling...
    Proud "European American" and prouder, still, Catholic


    Offline Belloc

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 6600
    • Reputation: +615/-5
    • Gender: Male
    Man of Providence
    « Reply #17 on: November 24, 2010, 02:39:33 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • thanks for reconfirming my belief that NO and SV, neither ways for me to go....

    again, not denigrating anyone, not trying to pick a fight, but CMRI sounds as unorganized, fractured and divided as NewChurch....hope Bishop Mark does not step on a toe or two, he too wil be "booted" and start yet another splinter group....knows Baptists that do this to their ministers or convention boots someone....
    Proud "European American" and prouder, still, Catholic

    Offline Emerentiana

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1420
    • Reputation: +1194/-17
    • Gender: Female
    Man of Providence
    « Reply #18 on: November 24, 2010, 02:56:05 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Belloc
    thanks for reconfirming my belief that NO and SV, neither ways for me to go....

    again, not denigrating anyone, not trying to pick a fight, but CMRI sounds as unorganized, fractured and divided as NewChurch....hope Bishop Mark does not step on a toe or two, he too wil be "booted" and start yet another splinter group....knows Baptists that do this to their ministers or convention boots someone....


    Belloc,
    I should really clarify this.  This was a very big error on my part!
    Schukardt actually left  on his own with a few brothers that were will him at the rectory. A few laypeople went with him that refused to listen to the expose'  told by Fr Dennis Chicoine.
    When it was exposed that he was a ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ, he left quickly. Went to western Washington!  .
    Please forgive my sloppy writing.  Im old, and so much of what happened was so traumatic.

    Scandals have occurred in all trad groups.

    In the future, I will say less and be much more careful about  the accuracy of my docuмentation.  Mea Culpa!
    :shocked:

    Offline Alexandria

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2677
    • Reputation: +485/-122
    • Gender: Female
    Man of Providence
    « Reply #19 on: November 24, 2010, 03:03:00 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Belloc
    thanks for reconfirming my belief that NO and SV, neither ways for me to go....

    again, not denigrating anyone, not trying to pick a fight, but CMRI sounds as unorganized, fractured and divided as NewChurch....hope Bishop Mark does not step on a toe or two, he too wil be "booted" and start yet another splinter group....knows Baptists that do this to their ministers or convention boots someone....


    Where are you going to go?  Some little pretend trad place in novus ordo land where everyone sticks their head in the sand and pretends everything in the church is groovy?


    Offline Alexandria

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2677
    • Reputation: +485/-122
    • Gender: Female
    Man of Providence
    « Reply #20 on: November 24, 2010, 03:38:33 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Remember, too, no matter what traditional place you go to in the novus ordo, they all have to tout the latest party line from Benedict.  

    There is no hiding place in the conciliar church.

    Offline obediens

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 213
    • Reputation: +85/-8
    • Gender: Male
    Man of Providence
    « Reply #21 on: November 24, 2010, 06:39:49 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • It doesn't matter how 99% of others might call him Archbishop Thuc, but that's the Vietnamese version of our first names, e.g. John or Mary. His real last name is Ngo like our Smith or Brown. Ask any Vietnamese, they will tell you the same thing.

    Also Emerentiana, if you're going to his church or those under him, at least spell Pivarunas' name right!

    Offline Roman Catholic

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2679
    • Reputation: +397/-1
    • Gender: Male
    Man of Providence
    « Reply #22 on: November 28, 2010, 02:52:47 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Matthew


    DID YOU KNOW that the first few years of "graduates" from the SSPX seminary were incardinated into their local dioceses?

    Matthew


    I didn't know that bit of history.

    How many priests were incardinated into their local dioceses?

    And what became of them?


    Offline stevusmagnus

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 3728
    • Reputation: +826/-1
    • Gender: Male
      • h
    Man of Providence
    « Reply #23 on: November 29, 2010, 08:13:53 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • http://www.sspx.org/Catholic_FAQs/catholic_faqs__canonical.htm#thucline

    Are the Masses of Thuc-line priests valid, and can we attend them?

    I do not believe that there is a strong reason to doubt the validity of the episcopal consecrations performed by the exiled Vietnamese Archbishop Ngo Dinh Thuc. However, there are several lesser reasons, that might be considered sufficient to establish some kind of positive doubt in the matter. These include the absence of correct witnesses during the original ceremony of consecration, which was done in private, and in the middle of the night.

    Also relevant is Thuc’s confused mental state, as evidenced by his public concelebration of the New Mass with the local Novus Ordo bishop of the diocese of Toulon, just one month before these consecrations in 1981. Also, the lack of conviction can be seen in the fact that twice he consecrated bishops illicitly and twice he requested absolution from the canonical punishment of excommunication. These frequent changes indicate that he was a man who, to say the least, lacked conviction about what he was doing. This is further confirmed by his failure to join the Coetus internationalis patrum, the traditional group of bishops at Vatican II, and by a certain liberal tendency that he showed during the Council, speaking out against discrimination directed towards women and in favor of ecuмenism.. Consequently, although the logical thing would be to presume that he did have the intention of confecting the sacrament of Holy Orders, the absence of co-consecrators, and of a clear purpose, does open the door to some astonishment and doubt. Any doubt concerning the first bishops that he consecrated would clearly be passed on to any other bishops and priests ordained as a consequence.

    The moral theologians say that we must hold to the pars tutior, or safer position, when it concerns the sacraments. Consequently, in case of doubt, it would not be permissible to go to these priests for the sacraments, unless there was no other priest available, and in danger of death.

    However, even were there no doubt at all as to validity, it would still not be permissible to assist at the Masses and receive the sacraments from priests of the Thuc line. For they all hold to the radical sedevacantist position that there is no pope, and that if anybody says that there is a pope, or that he is in communion with the Holy Father, then he is in communion with a heretic and a heretic himself. By maintaining such a position, which makes no distinctions, and takes no account of the confusion in the Church due to the breakdown of authority, they not only condemn every other Catholic to hell fire, but effectively separate themselves off from all other Catholics, and make themselves into a church of their own. They are truly schismatic. It is consequently entirely illicit to have any kind of association with them. As a consequence of their loss of the sense of the Church, they abandon all sense of hierarchy and structure in the Church. Any bishop can consecrate any other bishop at any time, without authority between them. These bishops constantly ordain to the priesthood men who have no preparation or training, who belong to no religious community, and who are consequently entirely independent of one another and all Church authority. Throwing all canonical norms out of the window, they effectively become just as protestant as the modernists they pretend to defend the Church against.  [Answered by Fr. Peter R. Scott]

    Offline Belloc

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 6600
    • Reputation: +615/-5
    • Gender: Male
    Man of Providence
    « Reply #24 on: November 30, 2010, 10:32:40 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • well put Stevus, the whole Thuc thing leaves grave concerns-not saying said priests/bishops are not just that, clerygmen, but the whole thing is rather confusing..hopefully some day, can be worked out....
    Proud "European American" and prouder, still, Catholic

    Offline Belloc

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 6600
    • Reputation: +615/-5
    • Gender: Male
    Man of Providence
    « Reply #25 on: November 30, 2010, 10:36:48 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Alexandria
    I recall a priest in the early 1990s that thought he was the only true priest left in the world that he knew of.  That is what he told me.  Wound up getting himself elected "pope" a few years later.

    That is where that mentality will lead you.


    true, he was delusional, likely directly and silently influenced by  :devil2:
    Proud "European American" and prouder, still, Catholic


    Offline Belloc

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 6600
    • Reputation: +615/-5
    • Gender: Male
    Man of Providence
    « Reply #26 on: November 30, 2010, 10:38:25 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Emerentiana
     And he wasnt even a true Bishop, since he was consecrated by an Old Catholic Bishop.[/b]


    exactly, what I noted some time ago.....in a thread far, far away..a ehretic cannot consecrate you, then poof, you become the only true Roman Catholic Bishop/priest in the world,etc....nothing good comes from error and Old Catholics are in error.....
    Proud "European American" and prouder, still, Catholic

    Offline Belloc

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 6600
    • Reputation: +615/-5
    • Gender: Male
    Man of Providence
    « Reply #27 on: November 30, 2010, 10:43:46 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Alexandria
    Quote from: Belloc
    thanks for reconfirming my belief that NO and SV, neither ways for me to go....

    again, not denigrating anyone, not trying to pick a fight, but CMRI sounds as unorganized, fractured and divided as NewChurch....hope Bishop Mark does not step on a toe or two, he too wil be "booted" and start yet another splinter group....knows Baptists that do this to their ministers or convention boots someone....


    Where are you going to go?  Some little pretend trad place in novus ordo land where everyone sticks their head in the sand and pretends everything in the church is groovy?


    I should ask, you then, where do you plan to go?does not CMRI often stick their heads in the sand? are not many SSPXers in the sand, too? or any other Name that SV Group-are not members there in the sand?

    Your many posts in the past indicate to me you are hurt (understandable, who isnt), confused (many of us can be at times,true), but in the end, wehre do you go to Mass?? where?

    home alone is sounding more like your choice-maybe I am wrong.....

    for the record, have a long history myself of home alone, SSPX, Byzantine, NO, etc....

    I go to the TLM, A/B, talk to few people and leave almost immediately...truth be told, I try to avoid talking and making friends, as I have not the strength to go through the litany of AMericanism, Neocons, et,etc....

    note my posts prior to the one you quote-I was trying to ask and understand.....Emer was helpful in her response and humble in her post......
    Proud "European American" and prouder, still, Catholic