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Author Topic: "Fr" Isaac Relyea in Post Falls this week  (Read 1306 times)

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Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: "Fr" Isaac Relyea in Post Falls this week
« Reply #55 on: Today at 07:26:28 PM »


I'm asking about what you are saying. Is there a Church teaching which states that the Latin Rite for ordinations must be said in Latin to be valid? Obviously, if they absolutely must be said in Latin to be valid, then you have a good case. 
*sigh*.  Fr Scott said that the new rite IN LATIN didn’t change any words.  They did delete the word “ut” which is doubtful, but he ignores this problem.  For him, IF THE ORDINATION WAS SAID USIJG THE LATIN TEXT, then the new rite is valid.  

The new rite TRANSLATIONS into English/other changed words, which means they are invalid.  

If you said the OLD RITE in ENGLISH, it would still be valid because the words are all there.  But the VERNACULAR translations of the NEW RITE change words, which is a serious doubt.  

The language isn’t the problem.  The changing/deletion of words is.  


Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: "Fr" Isaac Relyea in Post Falls this week
« Reply #56 on: Today at 10:02:50 PM »
You see, for some of us, it's has to do with the indefectibility of the Catholic Church. If all of the conciliar church hierarchy are suspect, then how can the Church ever right herself? Fr. Chazal said as much in his book "Contra Cekadam."
There's lots of problems with this way of thinking.

1.  Let's just assume that all the V2 clerics are valid.  They are still material/formal heretics.  They still don't have the Faith, whole and entire.  They still support pride masses, the new mass, false ecuмenism, Medjugorie (sp), etc.  They aren't helping anyone save their souls.  A heretic who is invalid is the same as a heretic who is valid -- they are still heretics.

2.  The Church, for the time being, has "righted itself" in the form of Tradition.  Just like during Arianism, which saints estimate over 90% of catholics were arian heretics, St Athanasius and his flock (and other clerics) kept the Faith.  Until the Church returned.

3.  The Church will always "right Herself" because God promised it.  Just because we can't see how it will happen, or when, doesn't mean it won't happen.  It's not our job to fix the Church; it's God's job.

4.  Indefectibility doesn't have to do with numbers.  If 99% of catholics defect, the 1% still hasn't.  God said that in the end times "the days will be shortened, for the sake of the elect".  This implies that times will be rough.  St Paul talks about the great "falling away" of the faithful.  If indefectibility were based on number of people, then both Christ's and St Paul's statements couldn't happen.  But indefectibility isn't affected by the majority of people.

5.  As long as there are Trad Bishops, then the Church has a hierarchy.  Every single V2 bishop could fall into formal heresy, but the existence of Trad Bishops (and also priests), means the hierarchy remains.

6.  I know of 2 prophecies about the current crisis that talk of world wars and persecution and chaos.  It is said that somewhere in europe, a handful of laity and clerics survive the chaos (not knowing that the pope had already died).  Sts Peter and Paul appear to them and choose who is the new pope.

The Church will survive.  We don't judge sacraments (i.e. the new rites) based on the future.  We judge them based on facts and errors within the text.  The new rites are doubtful and God knows they are doubtful.  This is God's crisis, which He is allowing to happen.  God knew this crisis would happen, down to the very last detail, from all eternity, even on the first day of the world. 

He knows all, sees all, plans all, fixes all, and protects all that He wills.  Nothing happens that He did not allow, did not know about, or cannot control or fix.  This crisis will be over when He says so and the Church will be restored in full measure and in full glory.


Online OABrownson1876

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Re: "Fr" Isaac Relyea in Post Falls this week
« Reply #57 on: Today at 10:33:09 PM »
These "traditional" novus ordo clerics do a great disservice to the Church because they behave as though the new rites of ordination and episcopal consecration are somehow acceptable and not to be doubted.  It is no different than a valid priest saying the New Mass, as though the validity of his priesthood can somehow confect a valid consecration, even though we all know that the form of the New Mass is defective in and of itself. It is ipso facto dubious, just like the new forms of ordination and episcopal consecration.