Author Topic: "Cardinal Siri" and Ottavianis Hidden War Against Montini (Read 5816 times)

parentsfortruth · « **Reply #1 on:** February 05, 2011, 11:47:13 AM »

In case anyone wants to read the full docuмent, rather than little excerpts with some layman's interpretation of events, here's where you can get Nikitaroncalli in its full publication. This has been online for quite some time.
http://www.huttongibson.com/PDFs/huttongibson_NIKITARONCALLI_book.pdf

roscoe · « **Reply #2 on:** February 05, 2011, 12:17:40 PM »

MO is that 'some layman' has been much more charitable, reasonable and rational that the hysterical prev poster.

gladius_veritatis · « **Reply #3 on:** February 05, 2011, 10:28:53 PM »

I am totally down with the 'Siri was elected' idea -- even if it happened twice (which, BTW, seems to be the case). One of my present questions is: Where have his appointees gone? Why do they SEEM to be so reticent to broadcast the truth about what has happened? Why do they, who are NOT captive (as he seems to have been), seem to have accomplished next to nothing as far as getting the word out is concerned? All I have to say is... ROOF TOPS...

21+ years is a long time, especially in an age where communication is so easy...

Jehanne · « **Reply #4 on:** February 06, 2011, 07:23:24 AM »

Quote from: gladius_veritatis

I am totally down with the 'Siri was elected' idea -- even if it happened twice (which, BTW, seems to be the case). One of my present questions is: Where have his appointees gone? Why do they SEEM to be so reticent to broadcast the truth about what has happened? Why do they, who are NOT captive (as he seems to have been), seem to have accomplished next to nothing as far as getting the word out is concerned? All I have to say is... ROOF TOPS...

21+ years is a long time, especially in an age where communication is so easy...

It's silly, conspiracy theories gone wakco. You have to accept the current Magisterium, you just have to. Not doing so is like accepting "division by zero." While in high school, my geometry teacher gave me and a friend a proof that 2 = 1. My friend, who would graduate valedictorian of our class (and, would, later on, graduate valedictorian of his college class, only later to drop-out of his PhD program -- now, he is a low-grade newspaper reporter) believed our geometry teacher. I, however, refused to believe him, but could not figure out what was wrong with his "proof" that 2 = 1. I would not accept it. Instead, I took the matter to my algebra teacher who, immediately, with a coy smile whispered in my ear, "Yeah, he is dividing by zero." Apparently, my algebra teacher had known about this little ploy for quite some time but had never mentioned it to the geometry teacher, who was absolutely convinced of his "proof."

Point is, if you allow "division by zero," you can prove anything, anything at all. The same is true of conspiracy theories. The One and Triune God is not and cannot be the author of confusion and/or contradiction.

Gortan · « **Reply #5 on:** February 06, 2011, 09:25:41 AM »

Joeseph Ratzinger: in an attempt to subvert Holy Mother Church's infallible teaching against the monstrous heresy of our age, Liberalism - publicly stated (manifested) that the teaching of Vatican II was a "countersyllabus" which was "an attempt at an official reconciliation with the new era inaugurated in 1789" and an effort to correct what he dared to call "the one-sidedness of the position adopted by the Church under Pius IX and Pius X in response to the situation created by the new phase of history inaugurated by the French Revolution…". Ratzinger added that the view of the world held by these two holy Popes represents “an obsolete Church-State relationship;” and that, therefore, “there can be no return to the Syllabus.”
(Masonic Quotes from Ratzinger - extracted from his book, "Principles of Catholic Theology", pp. 381-382, 1987)

The Apostate Ratzinger (a.k.a Antipope Benedict XVI), was ineligible to be a Pope in the eyes of the Church (this ineligibility also applied to the other Vatican II 'popes') as he [Ratzinger] was a well docuмented manifest heretic before his 'pseudo election' which placed him under the condemnation of Pope Paul IV's Infallible, cuм Ex Apostolatus Officio. For any Catholic to deny this fact, that Ratzinger held and publically taught numerous heresies before his pseudo election is impossible[/u]... to then conclude he (Ratzinger) could be elected pope, after one has read and understood the infallible teaching of Pope Paul IV's cuм Ex Apostolatus Officio, would put the one who claimed such an absurdity ipso facto outside of the Catholic Church.

"The Holy Canons (Rules) will be completely disregarded..."

"The Holy Canons will be completely disregarded... they will ridicule Christian simplicity; they will call it folly and nonsense, but they will have the highest regard for advanced knowledge, and for the skill by which the axioms of the law, the precepts of morality, the Holy Canons and religious dogmas are clouded by senseless questions and elaborate arguments. As a result, no principle at all, however holy, authentic, ancient, and certain it may be, will remain free of censure, criticism, false interpretation, modification, and delimitation by man[/b]." (Prophecy of Ven. Bartholomew Holzhauser, 17th Century)

Jehanne · « **Reply #6 on:** February 06, 2011, 11:39:32 AM »

Quote from: Gortan

Jehanne can you please give some specific argument(s) ...

I do not debate the sede position. Ultimately, such is something for the Church alone to decide.

Quote from: Gortan

The Jєωs, going back to the beginning of the Catholic Church, have ALWAYS conspired against the One True Church, hence, the need of the Inquisition. (Do you hear that word cherished in Ratzinger's "magisterium"?)

The Inquisitions did not persecute Jєωs; that's a myth. They persecuted Conversos, that is, those who had falsely converted to Catholicism and had accepted Christian baptism. Another issue for another thread.

parentsfortruth · « **Reply #7 on:** February 06, 2011, 11:44:50 AM »

"And the mass of the faithful shall attach itself to the worthy Shepherd, who shall extricate each one from error and restore to the Church its beauty. He shall renew it."

Yep. GOD WILL TAKE CARE of it.

I would just like to note, that many, many Catholics didn't know who the Pope was at any given time in the Church, yet, were still Catholics.

I plead the SAME IGNORANCE as they.

roscoe · « **Reply #8 on:** February 06, 2011, 11:52:30 AM »

The anti-pope Benedict 16 is what one comes up with when 'dividing by zero'.

Jehanne · « **Reply #9 on:** February 06, 2011, 01:43:38 PM »

Quote from: Gortan

If a Jєω had no intention to receive baptism then they were still a Jєω [/b]

That's what the Inquisitions were meant to determine. Such an individual would, however, have the character of Baptism, but just not the fruits of the Sacrament. In the eyes of the Inquisition, however, such an individual would, technically, still be a Christian, albeit either a heretic and/or an apostate.

Jehanne · « **Reply #10 on:** February 06, 2011, 01:46:03 PM »

Quote from: Gortan

ex cathedra: "We enact, determine, decree and define that if BEFORE their elevation to the Cardinalcy or Pontificate, (they had) deviated from the Catholic Faith or fallen into some heresy:
(I) the promotion or elevation, even if it shall have been uncontested and by the unanimous assent of all the Cardinals, shall be null, void and worthless. .... (Catholics) shall be permitted at any time to withdraw with impunity from obedience and devotion to those thus promoted or elevated and to avoid them as warlocks, heathens, publicans, and heresiarchs ... " (cuм ex Apostolatus Officio, Pope Paul IV, 15th Feb 1559 - Roman Bullarium)

Jehanne can you please give some specific argument(s) on why you hurled the (correct) word conspiracy above?

Well, who determines that?? Has any Pope fallen into heresy since, and including, Pope John XXIII? Yes, a debate on sede. As I said, I do not participate in such debates.

parentsfortruth · « **Reply #11 on:** February 06, 2011, 03:19:19 PM »

I'd just like to remind everyone that we've had (I think, if memory serves) 42 antipopes, and they've been proclaimed so by the Church after the fact. Why is that so unheard of now? The Church has to do that, not us.

In light of this fact, since Peter has perpetual successors as Pastor Aeternus says, in Vatican I, how, exactly, can we have perpetual successors if there were antipopes at different times in the Church?

I answer, that every pope before those antipopes, were still reigning, as every pope that ever sat in the Throne of Peter IS STILL CURRENTLY REIGNING regardless of the fact if we have an antipope. Hence, the perpetual succession is intact fully.

Also, another reminder: NO potential antipope that we've had in the last 60 years, has made any ex cathedra announcements binding on the whole Church.

Until the Church makes a ruling on the subject, laypeople can't proclaim someone an antipope, only the Church can.

Also, I wonder if Saint Cyprian (not made a priest, first, but a BISHOP) had foreseen the fact that saints had followed antipopes before, unknowingly, when there were pretenders saying they were popes, and were not, yet, made it to heaven, regardless?

Another question I would have is, since the "true Petrine Hierarchy in exile" wishes to SAVE SOULS as the CHURCH'S MAIN OBJECTIVE on this earth, why they do not OFFICIALLY PRONOUNCE THAT there are "pretender priests" giving out the sacraments, and are HELLBOUND trying to be Catholics, saving MILLIONS OF SOULS in the process, and why they leave it to some layperson with no authority whatsoever to do the job for them? Boggles the mind.

And I ask the same question as Eamon:

Quote from: gladius_veritatis

I am totally down with the 'Siri was elected' idea -- even if it happened twice (which, BTW, seems to be the case). One of my present questions is: Where have his appointees gone? Why do they SEEM to be so reticent to broadcast the truth about what has happened? Why do they, who are NOT captive (as he seems to have been), seem to have accomplished next to nothing as far as getting the word out is concerned? All I have to say is... ROOF TOPS...

21+ years is a long time, especially in an age where communication is so easy...

Indeed, this has not been answered either.

If the "true Petrine Hierarchy" really intends to do what the Church does, "threats to safety" should be deaf to their ears, as GOD WILL PROTECT THEM IF THEY DO THE WORK OF THE CHURCH!

roscoe · « **Reply #12 on:** February 06, 2011, 03:44:57 PM »

Could an example be given of a saint who followed an anti-pope?-- keeping in mind of course that the Fr popes of GWS have never been declared anti-popes.

It is true that it takes a formal proclaimation for an anti-pope to be so designated. However, Boniface 6 and 7 were not declared until 6-700 yrs after they lived. During that time there were numerous persons who clamied they were anyway-- and they turned out to be right.

The same is true of St Joan of Arc--she is not made a saint for 600 yrs but U can bet there were some who recognised her as such during that time.

It is not a perfect world but ultimately ones salvation depends on adherence to the True Pope. EENS

roscoe · « **Reply #13 on:** February 06, 2011, 03:56:16 PM »

The book by Radecki is incorrect in the assessment of Fr GWS popes as anti-popes.

Gortan · « **Reply #14 on:** February 06, 2011, 04:21:29 PM »

What are the "Sedevacantist" Top Brass Doing To Bring Peter to the Throne??

"The estimated cost of completing this project is $3.5 million." (Source: Mr. Daniel Dolan's Official Website)

More from Mr. Dolan's ad campaign (website):

Support SGG School

Help form the Catholics of tomorrow!

Building Program

In 1997 we purchased 8 acres of land in West Chester, Ohio, a northern suburb of Cincinnati where our long-term goal was to construct a new parish plant.

When completed, the complex will include a large Gothic church, a school, a social hall/gym, offices, a covered cloister walk for processions, a tower, a rectory, and a convent.

Phase One: Completed
Phase One of this project began in September 2002, and included the following:

•An Interim Church, constructed in a simple Gothic style, incorporating all the interior furnishings from our original church (altars, statues, etc.). It will become the social hall/gym once the larger permanent church is completed.
•Classrooms for our parish school and Sunday catechism program. This wing is designed for expansion to accommodate future growth.
•Offices.
•Interim Social Hall. This area will be converted into more offices and a bookstore, once the larger permanent church is completed.
•Covered Cloister Walkway, used both for liturgical processions and for socializing after Mass during good weather. Two 70-foot wings were completed in Phase One.
This work was completed in December 2003, except for the exterior finish – three-quarters of a million pounds of granite to be installed in stages.

Next: Rectory and Tower
Next, in anticipation of ordinations in the next few years, we plan to construct a rectory large enough to accommodate five priests.

We also hope to complete the remaining two wings of the cloister walkway. These will converge at a 44-foot tower, a distinctive feature of the church complex that will be visible for miles in the valley below.

We Need Angels
When completed, the magnificent Gothic church will be a “sermon in stone” on Catholicism’s perennial values, and will draw Catholics from the soulless suburban churches of the post-Vatican II religion.

With its new facility, St. Gertrude the Great Church will also truly become a national shrine. It will offer a share in the Church’s full liturgical life and its many and rich devotions and observances throughout the year not only to local Tri-State Catholics, but also to a steadily-increasing number of visitors.

The estimated cost of completing this project is $3.5 million.

Will you help us make this a reality?