Author Topic: "Canonization of John XXIII and JPII discussed at True Restoration Radio (Read 2770 times)

Rosemary · « **on:** April 27, 2014, 07:39:25 PM »

Restoration Radio discusses the "canonization of John XXIII and JPII

Luker · « **Reply #1 on:** April 27, 2014, 07:54:46 PM »

thanks! I'm listening now.

Pete Vere · « **Reply #2 on:** April 27, 2014, 08:20:39 PM »

Quote from: Luker

thanks! I'm listening now.

Listening to you right now.

Luker · « **Reply #3 on:** April 27, 2014, 08:22:50 PM »

Quote from: Pete Vere

Quote from: Luker
thanks! I'm listening now.

Listening to you right now.

???

Pete Vere · « **Reply #4 on:** April 27, 2014, 08:27:59 PM »

Quote from: Luker

Quote from: Pete Vere
Quote from: Luker
thanks! I'm listening now.

Listening to you right now.

???

Apologies, mistook you for Sean because of your crusader icon. Heard Sean on the radio.

Luker · « **Reply #5 on:** April 27, 2014, 08:37:00 PM »

Was that 'our' poster SeanJohnson the caller on there?

Pete Vere · « **Reply #6 on:** April 27, 2014, 08:39:15 PM »

Quote from: Luker

Was that 'our' poster SeanJohnson the caller on there?

Not sure. This Sean was also from MN and just happened to ask the exact same R&R question alleging defect of consent on Pope Francis' part that Sean J had just posted to CI. But it might be coincidence.

EDIT: Sean just confirmed on another thread that was him.

ggreg · « **Reply #7 on:** April 28, 2014, 01:24:40 AM »

In a two hour show, these people don't address their own elephant in the room.

SVs cannot deliver unity, consistency, sacraments without a 3 hour one way drive, singular leadership, specific authority.

They have had 25 years to get their act together and they haven't. The SSPX dwarves them. It's like complaining about McDonalds hamburgers and suggesting that truckers should eat Beluga Caviar and Venezuelan beaver cheese at truck stops for their health. And if they can't find those then go without.

THAT IS WHY more people don't choose SV as an option. It has nothing to do with "not having your Catholic thinking hat on". If SVs have the protection and help of the Holy Spirit then it ain't worth much, because they have been unsuccessful in growing and their behaviour as Catholics is not particularly stand-out or edifying. They are nothing special. Where is their Chartres pilgrimage? Where is their Econe?

Their numbers will go up after these canonisations but, practically speaking, they are capped by the fact that most people with children don't want to be home-aloners and drive hundreds of miles to have mass in someone's basement.

Also, it is tall order to suggest to your children that the basement or weird little church is Catholic, while a religion of half a billion so called "Catholics" who own the churches, the art, the Turin Shroud and the relics of the saints is not the Church. The SV Catholic has a choice of one mass if they have a choice at all.

If this act of Canonisation justifies SVism then rationally it justifies only dogmatic SVism. And that is a highly unattractive, and impractical position in terms of selling it to your spouse and kids.

SJB · « **Reply #8 on:** April 28, 2014, 03:27:34 AM »

Quote from: ggreg

In a two hour show, these people don't address their own elephant in the room.

SVs cannot deliver unity, consistency, sacraments without a 3 hour one way drive, singular leadership, specific authority.

They have had 25 years to get their act together and they haven't. The SSPX dwarves them. It's like complaining about McDonalds hamburgers and suggesting that truckers should eat Beluga Caviar and Venezuelan beaver cheese at truck stops for their health. And if they can't find those then go without.

THAT IS WHY more people don't choose SV as an option. It has nothing to do with "not having your Catholic thinking hat on". If SVs have the protection and help of the Holy Spirit then it ain't worth much, because they have been unsuccessful in growing and their behaviour as Catholics is not particularly stand-out or edifying. They are nothing special. Where is their Chartres pilgrimage? Where is their Econe?

Their numbers will go up after these canonisations but, practically speaking, they are capped by the fact that most people with children don't want to be home-aloners and drive hundreds of miles to have mass in someone's basement.

Also, it is tall order to suggest to your children that the basement or weird little church is Catholic, while a religion of half a billion so called "Catholics" who own the churches, the art, the Turin Shroud and the relics of the saints is not the Church. The SV Catholic has a choice of one mass if they have a choice at all.

If this act of Canonisation justifies SVism then rationally it justifies only dogmatic SVism. And that is a highly unattractive, and impractical position in terms of selling it to your spouse and kids.

The position itself doesn't claim any superiority to those who might hold it, yet I agree that these men haven't produced anything even remotely stable in the past 30 years. They appear to be concerned mainly about themselves and have little respect for those who have supported them over the years. The "fruits" of the 1983 split are non-existent, yet I think it was due to the character of some of the men that made the split. The "face" of sedevacantism (excluding the CMRI) appears to be largely the "odd couple" of Sanborn/Cekada and the Zirconia Brothers.

2Vermont · « **Reply #9 on:** April 28, 2014, 04:40:28 AM »

Deciding which position makes the most sense shouldn't involve numbers. Given the SSPX has the so-called numbers and the pretty chapels, have they really done much to fix the problem in Rome?

The early Christians didn't have the numbers or the pretty chapels either.

OP, thanks for letting me know about the program.

SJB · « **Reply #10 on:** April 28, 2014, 06:01:47 AM »

Quote from: 2Vermont

Deciding which position makes the most sense shouldn't involve numbers. Given the SSPX has the so-called numbers and the pretty chapels, have they really done much to fix the problem in Rome?

The early Christians didn't have the numbers or the pretty chapels either.

OP, thanks for letting me know about the program.

It's not about numbers, it's about the reality of what these men have actually produced in 30 years. It's almost non-existent.

2Vermont · « **Reply #11 on:** April 28, 2014, 10:02:39 AM »

And the SSPX and R&R have?

C'mon.

Matthew · « **Reply #12 on:** April 28, 2014, 11:21:50 AM »

Quote from: 2Vermont

And the SSPX and R&R have?

C'mon.

Yes, they have.

C'mon.

Seriously, though, look before 2009 and you'll see plenty of juicy, delicious and nutritious fruit.

Look at all the retreat houses founded, retreats given, doctrinal conferences, conversions, vocations, pilgrimages, schools, Mass centers opened in virtually every state of the union (and worldwide) -- although they could do better. And a large publishing arm putting out a magazine and good Catholic books...

The SSPX apostolate was as comprehensive as could be imagined. There's a reason Rome wants to absorb them.

2Vermont · « **Reply #13 on:** April 28, 2014, 11:49:11 AM »

Quote from: Matthew

Quote from: 2Vermont
And the SSPX and R&R have?

C'mon.

Yes, they have.

C'mon.

Seriously, though, look before 2009 and you'll see plenty of juicy, delicious and nutritious fruit.

Look at all the retreat houses founded, retreats given, doctrinal conferences, conversions, vocations, pilgrimages, schools, Mass centers opened in virtually every state of the union (and worldwide) -- although they could do better. And a large publishing arm putting out a magazine and good Catholic books...

The SSPX apostolate was as comprehensive as could be imagined. There's a reason Rome wants to absorb them.

For all that these groups have done in the past, we still have the mess in Rome. So, no, IMO it amounts to a hill of beans.
I know that probably irks those that are part of those groups, but that;s my opinion of things.
And the things that were mentioned above, SV groups are doing on a smaller scale due to their size.

SJB · « **Reply #14 on:** April 28, 2014, 09:59:50 PM »

Quote from: 2Vermont

Quote from: Matthew
Quote from: 2Vermont
And the SSPX and R&R have?

C'mon.

Yes, they have.

C'mon.

Seriously, though, look before 2009 and you'll see plenty of juicy, delicious and nutritious fruit.

Look at all the retreat houses founded, retreats given, doctrinal conferences, conversions, vocations, pilgrimages, schools, Mass centers opened in virtually every state of the union (and worldwide) -- although they could do better. And a large publishing arm putting out a magazine and good Catholic books...

The SSPX apostolate was as comprehensive as could be imagined. There's a reason Rome wants to absorb them.

For all that these groups have done in the past, we still have the mess in Rome. So, no, IMO it amounts to a hill of beans.
I know that probably irks those that are part of those groups, but that;s my opinion of things.
And the things that were mentioned above, SV groups are doing on a smaller scale due to their size.

So a priest who has a lively apostolate, offering Mass, attending to the sick and dying, hearing confessions, etc. is the same as one who sits in his mother's basement watching TV and eating Cheetos all day simply because neither one "has fixed the mess in Rome?"

The 1983 group has accomplished little other than promote themselves.