Author Topic: Vat II annulments (Read 1394 times)

ThomisticPhilosopher · « **Reply #5 on:** October 26, 2014, 04:25:26 AM »

Quote from: Stubborn

Quote from: dogpatch
Of particular interest in the current crisis is the state of annulments. If the post vatican II marriage tribunals had no real authority in these matters or handed down erroneous annulments, what is the divorced-annulled-remarried Catholic to do? If the 2nd 'marriage' is in effect adultery in God's sight, ought he/she to separate from the 2nd 'spouse'? And is that Catholic 2nd 'spouse'' free to marry (once having repented of the adulterous false 'marriage'?

The primary problem in the current crisis is in not knowing where the Truth lies, per John 8:32. Where is there reliable Christ-centered authority to speak to these things?

First, sadly, there are probably a lot of annulments these days that actually could be valid annulments - thanks to the multitude of invalid annulments which led to invalid re-marriages granted over the last 50 years.

In the case of invalid second marriages, spouses are bound to separate from bed and board - but it's not that cut and dry.

Living as brother and sister for a time was sometimes advised in order to avoid the scandal of divorce, also the scandal of divorce and re-marriage. When illegitimate offspring result from this invalid marriage, things get more complicated and for that, talking to a trad priest is the only way to go.

Adultery is when both parties are already married. Fornication is when one of the parties is single and the other is married - when that is the case, the single person is free to marry another who is also free to marry, after making a good confession.

Glad you brought that up, for the married person it is adultery, but for the single person it is fornication.

Therefore I have to modify my previous statement with respect to Padre Pio, I meant to say fornication for the woman and adultery for the married man. I hope that this clears that up, thanks for the clarification you are right.

The problem is that now there are multiple annulments piled on top of other annulments.

For a single traditional Catholic, to avoid the possibility of scandal, unless it is demonstrably easily provable that the person who you are intending to marry has without a question of a doubt a true case of an annulment (never consummated the marriage etc...). Then it would still be licit, but as a general rule simply take out of your mind that possibility of marriage with that person. Or if you are patient enough wait until other spouse dies, lol. Feed the other guy a diet of McDonalds, ahahah. On a more serious note, things are so difficult at the moment. Any state of life you choose, is riddled with so many obstacles so do not be faint of heart and simply have faith that God will provide.

Stubborn · « **Reply #6 on:** October 26, 2014, 05:11:03 AM »

Quote from: ThomisticPhilosopher

For a single traditional Catholic, to avoid the possibility of scandal, unless it is demonstrably easily provable that the person who you are intending to marry has without a question of a doubt a true case of an annulment (never consummated the marriage etc...). Then it would still be licit, but as a general rule simply take out of your mind that possibility of marriage with that person. Or if you are patient enough wait until other spouse dies, lol. Feed the other guy a diet of McDonalds, ahahah. On a more serious note, things are so difficult at the moment. Any state of life you choose, is riddled with so many obstacles so do not be faint of heart and simply have faith that God will provide.

Actually, it is the tribunal which determines where the scandal, if any, lies. If they determined the danger of public scandal was insignificant, they would be bound to order immediate separation from bed and board in order to avoid sin and the near occasion of sin for both parties.

If they determined the danger of public scandal was significant, they would still be bound to order separation from bed, the parties would then need to strive to separate from board also, but under close monitoring and council from the tribunal.

While there probably are those cases where "living as brother and sister" would be permitted for a prolonged period, that would be the rare exception and would be due to extraordinary circuмstances, most likely involving young children in some way.

Beyond that, the Church tribunal's primary duty is to safeguard, preserve and defend the sanctity, integrity and dignity of the sacrament - and of the Marriage Contract. That is what it is all supposed to - and used to revolve around.

Living as brother and sister would only be permitted if it first determined through a thorough investigation of all the circuмstances, that no scandal would befall the integrity of the sacrament due to the public thinking "the Church grants divorces willy nilly" like they do now.

ThomisticPhilosopher · « **Reply #7 on:** October 26, 2014, 06:32:03 AM »

Agreed. The circuмstances would have to allow no possibility of scandal, and definitely the children should be made aware according to their age. Specifically of how mom and dad are not really married, etc...

Its a serious matter, that requires great moral guidance from a good priest. This would be true whether it is a priest of the SSPX or a sedevacantist priest.

poche · « **Reply #8 on:** October 28, 2014, 04:39:23 AM »

Could it be that a portion of the invalid annulments are because someone lied in order to get a declaration of nullity? Who do they think they are lying to?