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Traditional Catholic Faith => Computers, Technology, Websites => Topic started by: Alan on October 31, 2018, 12:01:46 AM

Title: Why IT is a safe career for Traditional Catholics?
Post by: Alan on October 31, 2018, 12:01:46 AM
Dear all,

The description on the "Computer and Technology" sub forum says IT is a safe career for traditional Catholics.
I am wondering why??

I am a programmer myself, I have always thought IT is a dynamic industry, technologies come and go,
new technology is always seen as an improvement, progress; on the other hand, old things seen as inferior.  
People in this industry are conditioned to think that old things are inferior and new things superior, naturally 
a distaste for history and tradition will be cultivated in their minds. Because of this, I have decided to move
away from this industry some time ago.

I'd love to hear your opinions. Thank you.

God bless
Alan
Title: Re: Why IT is a safe career for Traditional Catholics?
Post by: Maria Regina on October 31, 2018, 12:22:38 AM
Check the course requirements.

Except for IT and computer programmers, all the other majors have very heavy diversity topics covering LGBTQ, abortion, racism, euthanasia, same sex marriage, and the "bigotry" of Christians.

One of my friends was thinking of becoming a nurse or a doctor. However, all of the medical professions mandate that students study abortions, and with the LGBTQ sex operations, more immorality is coming down the line. With euthanasia already on the books in Washington, Oregon, California, etc., many medical professionals are being trained in assisted ѕυιcιdє or euthanasia.

Chemists and pharmacists are also highly compromised.

As part of pre-medical training, I took a course in prescription drugs. It was an eye-opener.

All prescription drugs by law must be tested to see what their lethal dose is. When you go to an emergency room, the emergency room doctors are trained to prescribe dosages that are very close to 100% lethal dose. These doctors push the limit.

So, I will repeat: all drugs have dangerous side effects, including death. None of the drugs produced by the pharmaceutical corporations are safe or economical by design. Drug companies want to profit at our expense, and put us at risk of death.

Teachers have the worse brainwashing of all because they are to impart socialism and diversity brainwashing to all their students.

Worse, almost all text books are published by Pearson and its subsidiaries such as PSAT, SAT, GRE, and most college and career testing programs. Pearson is part of the Illuminati elite empire controlled by the Rothschilds, etc.

Title: Re: Why IT is a safe career for Traditional Catholics?
Post by: Alan on October 31, 2018, 12:42:01 AM
Oh, I see. I didn't know this because I don't live in the US.
After I completed my IT degree, I pursued another one with major in Statistics. There is also no progressive element in that course.
So I think Statistics is also safe for Catholics.
Title: Re: Why IT is a safe career for Traditional Catholics?
Post by: LaramieHirsch on October 31, 2018, 09:06:34 AM
Does IT pay much?  I've often wondered.
Title: Re: Why IT is a safe career for Traditional Catholics?
Post by: Ladislaus on October 31, 2018, 09:21:53 AM
IT pays a lot.

There's job security in IT ... always jobs to be had, even working remotely.

IT people tend to be nerds who, for the most part, tend not to be too political.

Contrary to the OP, lots of IT nerds actually have attachments to the past, including the Medieval past.

Rarely do matters of conscience inject themselves into your IT work ... unless you were asked to develop code for Planned Parenthood's website or something (which is rare).

With all that said, I wouldn't wish a career in IT on my worst enemy  :).

But through IT I am able to support my family.
Title: Re: Why IT is a safe career for Traditional Catholics?
Post by: LaramieHirsch on October 31, 2018, 09:27:39 AM
With all that said, I wouldn't wish a career in IT on my worst enemy  :).


Why?
Thank you for your reply, by the way.
Title: Re: Why IT is a safe career for Traditional Catholics?
Post by: Ladislaus on October 31, 2018, 09:45:50 AM
Why?
Thank you for your reply, by the way.

I find the work very unsatisfying, but that's just me.  I'd rather be doing something which directly helps people ... but most of the professions which would appeal to me would not allow me to adequately support my family.

Also, if you get into a large corporate IT environment, that can be an extreme pressure-cooker.   Lots of stress in IT, and then lots of people taking out their stress on each other.
Title: Re: Why IT is a safe career for Traditional Catholics?
Post by: Last Tradhican on October 31, 2018, 01:17:32 PM
I find the work very unsatisfying, but that's just me.  I'd rather be doing something which directly helps people ... but most of the professions which would appeal to me would not allow me to adequately support my family.

Also, if you get into a large corporate IT environment, that can be an extreme pressure-cooker.   Lots of stress in IT, and then lots of people taking out their stress on each other.
The grass is not greener on the other side of the hill, it only appears so because from years of experience you know all of the problems on your side, and you have no years of experience in the other. I've worked in many industries and have come to realize that every person thinks the same way: the other guy has it better.


Everything has its problems.
Title: Re: Why IT is a safe career for Traditional Catholics?
Post by: Jaynek on October 31, 2018, 02:06:22 PM
Both my husband and oldest son work in IT and are happy with their career choice.  Some people are temperamentally more suited to it than others, so there is no reason to automatically assume that a given person will dislike it.  

Title: Re: Why IT is a safe career for Traditional Catholics?
Post by: Ladislaus on October 31, 2018, 02:08:49 PM
The grass is not greener on the other side of the hill, it only appears so because from years of experience you know all of the problems on your side, and you have no years of experience in the other. I've worked in many industries and have come to realize that every person thinks the same way: the other guy has it better.


Everything has its problems.

Not so.  My preferred profession was always to have been a teacher.  I've taught High School, University, and even a class at seminary.  I always wanted to be a teacher, but couldn't find a place where I could live with a school's philosophy and at the same time be able to support my family.  I would have loved to teach at a good old Traditional Catholic boys' High School.  I prefer High School because that's the time at which the boys' characters are being formed and when you can make the most positive impact.  I've also worked in other fields.

I also think that I would do well as a medical professional, or an emergency worker ... since I am extremely cool in traumatic situations.  I enjoy helping people, plus I'm very calm.  I've been beside people with severe gunshot wounds and traumatic head injuries, and completely kept my composure while trying to help them through it.  I know another seminarian who became an EMT after he left seminary.  When you want to help people, you want to help people ... and cutting code for money doesn't satisfy the deeper longings of some people's hearts.
Title: Re: Why IT is a safe career for Traditional Catholics?
Post by: Ladislaus on October 31, 2018, 02:12:36 PM
Both my husband and oldest son work in IT and are happy with their career choice.  Some people are temperamentally more suited to it than others, so there is no reason to automatically assume that a given person will dislike it.  

True.  IT can be good especially for introverted people who don't like working with people and like spending much of their day in their own mind.  That's not to say all IT people are introverted by nature.  There's some satisfaction that comes from "solving puzzles".  So if you like solving puzzles, coding can be satisfying on its own.  But you can understand what I mean from my latest post.  I like helping people.
Title: Re: Why IT is a safe career for Traditional Catholics?
Post by: Ladislaus on October 31, 2018, 02:15:24 PM
... so there is no reason to automatically assume that a given person will dislike it.  

Notice how I phrased my reply above:
Quote
I find the work very unsatisfying, but that's just me.
Title: Re: Why IT is a safe career for Traditional Catholics?
Post by: Geremia on October 31, 2018, 02:35:13 PM
When looking for IT work, one recruiter tried to get me to apply, but it turned out pornographers were the majority of her company's customers. So, IT isn't necessarily "a safe career for Traditional Catholics".
Title: Re: Why IT is a safe career for Traditional Catholics?
Post by: Jaynek on October 31, 2018, 02:41:13 PM
True.  IT can be good especially for introverted people who don't like working with people and like spending much of their day in their own mind.  That's not to say all IT people are introverted by nature.  There's some satisfaction that comes from "solving puzzles".  So if you like solving puzzles, coding can be satisfying on its own.  But you can understand what I mean from my latest post.  I like helping people.
Yes, the puzzle-solving aspect is very satisfying to my husband and he is somewhat introverted.  While he does like helping people, he does not have a strong need for it to be hands-on.  Over his career, he has done IT in support of energy, communication, and medical technology, all of which are things that help people and an aspect of his job that he enjoyed.

As Ladislaus said, his personal dislike of the field is "just him" and it is not a reason for others not to consider it.  Also, the good pay can make it easier to put up with some of the negative aspects of the job.
Title: Re: Why IT is a safe career for Traditional Catholics?
Post by: Ladislaus on October 31, 2018, 05:11:10 PM
When looking for IT work, one recruiter tried to get me to apply, but it turned out pornographers were the majority of her company's customers. So, IT isn't necessarily "a safe career for Traditional Catholics".

Well, no, there are no guarantees, and the example you cite is in the extreme minority in IT.  For every one of these types of jobs, you'll be able to find 1,000 positions at legitimate (non-immoral) businesses.
Title: Re: Why IT is a safe career for Traditional Catholics?
Post by: Ladislaus on October 31, 2018, 05:17:37 PM
As Ladislaus said, his personal dislike of the field is "just him" and it is not a reason for others not to consider it.  Also, the good pay can make it easier to put up with some of the negative aspects of the job.

Yes, and it also depends on the type of position one has within IT.  I worked as an "Enterprise Architect" once, and I absolutely hated it.  Great pay, but it was ALL meetings and docuмents and presentations.  For someone who enjoys the "development" aspect of IT, this job was torture.  Some people prefer support, other people development, and yet others might enjoy the project management side of things.  So maybe we're being too loose in using the term IT.

I am just trying to give one example of someone who doesn't find IT very satisfying.  Now, there are benefits.  For me, when my mind is actively engaged in trying to solve a problem, the time passes very quickly.  I could sit down, start developing software, look up, and it's lunch time, and look down, look up, and time to leave.  That's how quickly a day can pass when you're working on software development.  Project management, business analysis, docuмentation, etc. ... those aspects of IT I would not really like as much.  But everyone is different.
Title: Re: Why IT is a safe career for Traditional Catholics?
Post by: Ascetik on November 01, 2018, 10:34:02 AM
I'm a Sys Admin for one of the big 4.

My job pays well and it is really easy (to me). I've been in IT for about 15 years now professionally. It is one of those jobs where you don't have to deal too much with office politics and you can do your own thing and it has a good bit of freedom (at least mine does).

I've worked for some horrible companies though that did not respect my family time and always wanted me to work weekends. The key to having a good career in IT is not working for what is called a "Managed Service Provider" AKA outsourced IT. That is extremely stressful, and although you learn a lot, it is essentially teaching grown children how to use computers.

Title: Re: Why IT is a safe career for Traditional Catholics?
Post by: Ladislaus on November 01, 2018, 01:33:27 PM
I'm a Sys Admin for one of the big 4.

My job pays well and it is really easy (to me). I've been in IT for about 15 years now professionally. It is one of those jobs where you don't have to deal too much with office politics and you can do your own thing and it has a good bit of freedom (at least mine does).

I've worked for some horrible companies though that did not respect my family time and always wanted me to work weekends. The key to having a good career in IT is not working for what is called a "Managed Service Provider" AKA outsourced IT. That is extremely stressful, and although you learn a lot, it is essentially teaching grown children how to use computers.

It all depends on the company.  Some places are veritable sweat-shops, others extremely casual and laid back.
Title: Re: Why IT is a safe career for Traditional Catholics?
Post by: Ascetik on November 01, 2018, 02:12:47 PM
Yep, exactly. I literally work 10 minutes down the road from my house and I am the only one here. I can work from home whenever. Get free training on anything I want. It really is a dream job for me. I could always make more money somewhere else, but I'm happy with my salary and current situation, so I have no desire to switch to a different role. I'll probably stay here at least for another 3 years before I start exploring higher paying positions.
Title: Re: Why IT is a safe career for Traditional Catholics?
Post by: Matthew on November 01, 2018, 02:37:35 PM
When looking for IT work, one recruiter tried to get me to apply, but it turned out pornographers were the majority of her company's customers. So, IT isn't necessarily "a safe career for Traditional Catholics".


Guess what? Literally EVERY OTHER PROFESSION might be faced with having to deal with a porn company: plumbers, cooks, bakers, copy machine repair, marketing, sales, you name it.

Working for an immoral company/client is the one exception, even in careers that are generally safe for Catholics.

My point was that STEM fields are still heavily grounded in reality and science. And as such, they are friendly to Catholics trying to keep God's law. God is the author of truth, both in the physical world AND in the moral sphere.

Fields outside STEM are much more affected by modern errors (feminism, Freudism, atheism, Darwinism, political correctness, anti-Catholic, anti-life, etc.)

These modern errors ultimately go against reality. But engineers (physical, mechanical, and software) are exempt from the insanity for now: if you build bridge X with 3 pillars instead of 4, the thing will collapse. Opinions, being personally offended, and feelings be damned. So engineers are set free to deal completely in reality.

As long as you can stand all your co-workers being atheists and agnostics, and you have the mind/temperament for IT, then by all means look into it.
Title: Re: Why IT is a safe career for Traditional Catholics?
Post by: Markus on November 01, 2018, 04:22:42 PM
Isn't an EMP attack or the Chastisement all it takes for the IT profession to be obsolete?
Title: Re: Why IT is a safe career for Traditional Catholics?
Post by: Mithrandylan on November 01, 2018, 04:39:40 PM
Isn't an EMP attack or the Chastisement all it takes for the IT profession to be obsolete?
.
If the digital infrastructure collapses the least of everyone's concerns will be what job they have.  If IT goes the way of the dodo bird it's because something really bad happened, and at that point the only skills that matter are trade/survival skills anyways. 
Title: Re: Why IT is a safe career for Traditional Catholics?
Post by: Geremia on November 02, 2018, 11:00:19 PM
Literally EVERY OTHER PROFESSION might be faced with having to deal with a porn company: plumbers, cooks, bakers, copy machine repair, marketing, sales, you name it.
Any IT infrastructure behind the internet materially contributes to pornography. Material complicity isn't always a sin, though.
Title: Re: Why IT is a safe career for Traditional Catholics?
Post by: 2Vermont on November 03, 2018, 07:18:58 AM
My first reaction to this thread was that no profession is "safe".  If you are working "in the world" a Catholic is never "safe".  There may be some professions that shield you better than others, but don't fool yourselves into thinking any are 100% safe.
Title: Re: Why IT is a safe career for Traditional Catholics?
Post by: Jaynek on November 03, 2018, 09:59:08 AM
My first reaction to this thread was that no profession is "safe".  If you are working "in the world" a Catholic is never "safe".  There may be some professions that shield you better than others, but don't fool yourselves into thinking any are 100% safe.
Of course.  "Satan prowls like a lion" is always true.  Saying that IT is safe actually means that it is relatively safe, not that it is safe in an absolute sense.  One must rely on prayer and the Sacraments, not on one's choice of profession, to be preserved from evil.  Nevertheless we have a responsibility to avoid near occasions of sin, so it is good to know about this aspect of various careers.
Title: Re: Why IT is a safe career for Traditional Catholics?
Post by: Ladislaus on November 03, 2018, 10:32:18 AM
Obviously we're discussing relative safety.  By contrast, if you were to go into the medical field, how long before you're being asked to vaccinate some kids, pull the plug on someone, refer them for an abortion, or hand them birth control?

If teaching, how long before you're being forced to incorporate morally-objectionable views into your subject matter?
Title: Re: Why IT is a safe career for Traditional Catholics?
Post by: Jaynek on November 03, 2018, 10:43:15 AM
Probably the morally most safe career is being a stay at home mom.  I am very thankful that my husband is the one out there dealing with the world every day and that I don't need to.  I get to stay home and create a sanctuary from all the evil and craziness.  

But even we SAHMs face countless temptations. And I carry a full share of sins and weaknesses within me.  There is no escaping that wherever I go.
Title: Re: Why IT is a safe career for Traditional Catholics?
Post by: Matthew on November 03, 2018, 11:14:52 AM
Any IT infrastructure behind the internet materially contributes to pornography. Material complicity isn't always a sin, though.

No it doesn't.
My web server (and any network hardware from my fiber internet connection to the server itself) hosts several websites, all of which are perfectly acceptable for Catholics. No porn allowed on my web server, nor do I forward any traffic to porn sites.

As for the actual cables, network switches, and other networking equipment from my house outward, the same could be said of telephones (ever heard of phone sex?) and no one would even begin to suggest that telephones are a moral problem.

The printing press sure got used for lots of good and lots of evil.
Title: Re: Why IT is a safe career for Traditional Catholics?
Post by: Matthew on November 03, 2018, 11:20:40 AM
Besides the fact that IT is one of the most safe careers for Catholics, it's relatively accessible (without incurring 100K+ of student loan debt), it's usually a family-friendly career (not a lot of out-of-state travel like sales, or days/weeks/months away from home like truck driving or the military). It's also extremely safe. How many wives of IT men get a horrible phone call or knock on the door informing them their husband was maimed or killed on the job? Anything involving car travel is *extremely* risky, much more so than air travel. And military, police and firefighters die all the time. Construction involves a lot of powerful, dangerous equipment. Even factory/manufacturing jobs involve a lot of very heavy, very dangerous machinery.

What do IT guys get? Carpal tunnel or maybe obesity. But that's really nitpicking, because those are things one would suffer from even if they didn't work (say, if they won the lottery and retired at 25). In other words, the risks and "first world problems" of rich people.

But it should also be pointed out (and Ladislaus touched on this point) that IT is also a very high-paying career. Enough to accommodate the Trad men who want a career that can earn two incomes at once.

You know how most American households earn about $70K to $80K a year to make a living? And that is with TWO jobs, the husband and the wife? Guess what? Trads don't get some kind of "get out of jail free" card just because they want their wife to stay home, or because they want to have an above-average number of children (which, today, means "more than 2").

In general, Trads have almost the exact same suite of challenges, temptations, and problems experienced by any worldling chosen at random off the street. What does going to a Tridentine Mass for 1 hour every Sunday really do to exempt one from the problems of the present age?

It's absolutely true that virtually all families need that $70-$80K to get by (with a few exceptions). So how do you earn good enough money to do that with only one job? There aren't many options. Plumbing isn't going to get you there, unless you go into business for yourself. Ditto for many other "trades".

Unless your parents leave you some land or really help you out ("here's a house, a car, some land, a nest egg...") it's going to be very hard to support a large family on $35K a year.

You need enough money for food, shelter, utilities, clothing, education (sure can't just send em off to public school!), health care, at least one vehicle (and it won't be a so-called "smart car" 2-seater) and gas for that car (large vehicles take more), insurance for house/car, property taxes, maintenance (house/car/property), etc.

Health care is a big one. It's one of the largest items in most budgets. You can't just pay cash or hope for the best. Just one trip to the hospital could RUIN a person's finances. As in, you have a good credit score and $50K in the bank, you wake up one day with a pain in your side, and next week your whole savings are gone and you're broke and behind on your bills. Health care is priced in super-money that most people don't have. It's like a bunch of neighborhood kids playing "economy" and trading pennies for sticks, pretty rocks, leaves, etc. and one of the kids deciding to save up to buy a car. It's not going to happen with pennies -- it's an order of magnitude higher. Cars are priced a world above kids' money.

Likewise, people earn dollars; they might have $100 saved this month, another $150 saved the next month. But procedures in the hospital are priced in TENS OF THOUSANDS of dollars. Good luck saving up that kind of money with mere frugality. Health insurance is mandatory.
Title: Re: Why IT is a safe career for Traditional Catholics?
Post by: Matthew on November 03, 2018, 11:42:36 AM
My first reaction to this thread was that no profession is "safe".  If you are working "in the world" a Catholic is never "safe".  There may be some professions that shield you better than others, but don't fool yourselves into thinking any are 100% safe.
Who said anything about absolutely or 100% safe? It goes without saying that anything involving human beings is going to carry a certain amount of risk.

Straw man argument.

And for what it's worth, it's not just computers/IT but pretty much any technology, engineering or math field that enjoys this privilege. I'd say "STEM" but that includes science, and you can't have a career in science without being pro-evolution.
Title: Re: Why IT is a safe career for Traditional Catholics?
Post by: Jaynek on November 03, 2018, 11:43:05 AM
Don't people need above average intelligence to work in IT?  If so, it would not be a realistic choice for everyone.

I know my husband is very smart and have had the impression that this was necessary for his job.
Title: Re: Why IT is a safe career for Traditional Catholics?
Post by: Matthew on November 03, 2018, 12:08:13 PM
Don't people need above average intelligence to work in IT?  If so, it would not be a realistic choice for everyone.

I know my husband is very smart and have had the impression that this was necessary for his job.

I was just about to write another post, and guess what it was about? The downside of IT (specifically, software development) being that you need to have an above-average IQ.

The fact is, it's a very difficult field unless you're talented AND dedicated to it. If you try to go part-time for a while, or spend time doing other things, forget it. You have to specialize, but on the other hand you need to keep up with the latest trends, and be willing to completely start over every 5 years or so. Things change so quickly in this field. Stuff you did 10 years ago is useless. Oh, and raw youth is the thing most valued by companies. They want young men* who are dedicated to the company, with a stereotypical Asian work-life balance, being willing to work long hours, weekends, etc. and not be hampered by having a family or a life outside work.

(* they'd love to have women, but they just aren't available in this field. Women are more interested in people than things, but I digress.)

I have a natural talent for programming that I discovered with I was 7 (when I decided this would be my career), and I started writing games and programs for fun when I was 15, while other teenagers were out doing normal teenager stuff. I've worked as a professional programmer since 1998.

Nevertheless, for a host of reasons, I am currently unemployed.

* For 10 years I worked remotely for a very small company. Fortunately, I studied and did side projects on my own, but still.
* 3 1/2 years off to try out a vocation
* for about 5 years I practically worked part-time, distracted with things like my family, programming a couple side projects, the Resistance, starting up a chapel, and CathInfo
* For a total of 8 years I worked for series of clients or "gigs". Being forced to wear many hats meant that I formed a broad experience in many technologies and languages, but never went "deep" into any of them. Most companies want to hire an expert/specialist, not a jack-of-all-trades.
* In the world of software development, you have to add 10 to your age to get your "perceived age". It's like dog years. If most people start having trouble getting hired in their 50's, then in software development that trouble starts in your 40's.
* My career was never a high priority, as long as we were doing OK financially. Work-life balance was a big issue for me.

But being able to pay the bills comfortably and having enough extra money to make large capital improvements (buy larger vehicles, expand living space) are two different things. Our family was/is still in the growth phase.

So recently my wife and I made the big decision that I would try to switch gears and start working full time jobs "for the man", for a company, usually in San Antonio. Despite the fact that I gave up on working on-site/full time around 2006. I had decided it would be best for me to always work for myself, going from client to client and gig to gig. So my resume wasn't exactly stellar for this new purpose ("working for a company full time"). It worked out for about a year -- I got 2 contract positions back-to-back. Then it dried up, and I haven't been able to get anyone to hire me since. Apparently those 2 positions were the exception.

I never in a million years would have thought this could happen to me. I consider myself a natural born (talented) programmer, but also an experienced and capable one. When given the chance, I am extremely proficient at designing, coding, testing, implementing software of all kinds. I just finished a "gig" that involved 2 separate programs: encrypting video into a stream onto a USB drive, and then playing back that encrypted video in an Android TV app. Each video is encrypted to work on just one Android TV box. It involved a lot of moving parts, but I did it all by myself in a couple months part-time. I designed the whole solution, did the research, worked with the client, and everything.

It's been very humbling and frustrating, to be honest. At the first full time job (a very liberal company), most of the programmers were millennials, very liberal, and many of the older ones in their 30's had only been programming for a few years. But because of bad luck, timing, etc. they got hired in the nick of time, with the company changing drastically after that (the owner retiring, for one) so I didn't get hired after my contract ended. I was probably the 3rd or 4th best programmer there out of 11, but I was the first to be "let go". It might have had to do with my worldview; who knows. My immediate manager was a hipster pro-Hillary SJW and openly ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ. The man who decided about hiring/not hiring me got most of his information about me through this ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ manager. I could imagine that manager wanting me gone, since he knew I was "religious" and therefore against everything he stands for.

I guess it's just a question of finding the right fit. Unfortunately, that fit is taking many months to find. This is not only discouraging for me, but if I were a young man looking at this from the outside and considering a career in software development, I would be terrified and run the other way.

I honestly don't know what I should have/could have done differently. Again, I'm a Traditional Catholic raising a family as well as a man with a software dev career. The things have to stay in balance.
Title: Re: Why IT is a safe career for Traditional Catholics?
Post by: Jaynek on November 03, 2018, 12:23:19 PM
I guess it's just a question of finding the right fit. Unfortunately, that fit is taking many months to find.
When my husband was laid off from Blackberry it took him more than a year to find a good fit for his next job.  He had a great severance package so this was not a financial hardship, but it was a bit stressful.  He was in his late 50s at that time and coming from a senior position which made it difficult.

(Prayers to St. Joseph for you.)
Title: Re: Why IT is a safe career for Traditional Catholics?
Post by: Jaynek on November 03, 2018, 12:32:10 PM
And for what it's worth, it's not just computers/IT but pretty much any technology, engineering or math field that enjoys this privilege. I'd say "STEM" but that includes science, and you can't have a career in science without being pro-evolution.
I don't think it's a coincidence that these fields still have more men than women working in them.  That is probably another advantage. 
Title: Re: Why IT is a safe career for Traditional Catholics?
Post by: Ladislaus on November 03, 2018, 01:16:21 PM
I'm sorry to hear about your situation, Matthew.  I know for a fact that if I got laid of from my current position, I'd basically be done.  I'd probably finish out my days working at McDonald's.  I just turned 50.  Matthew, do you know how to develop in Delphi?  If so, send me a PM.
Title: Re: Why IT is a safe career for Traditional Catholics?
Post by: 2Vermont on November 03, 2018, 03:26:35 PM
Who said anything about absolutely or 100% safe? It goes without saying that anything involving human beings is going to carry a certain amount of risk.

Straw man argument.

And for what it's worth, it's not just computers/IT but pretty much any technology, engineering or math field that enjoys this privilege. I'd say "STEM" but that includes science, and you can't have a career in science without being pro-evolution.
You seem a bit defensive here Matthew.  My impression of the OP was that ...yes...IT was being described as safe with no qualifiers what-so-ever.
And I really wasn't trying to make any "argument".  In fact, ironically, before I posted I was thinking that I agreed with you.  :laugh1:   
Title: Re: Why IT is a safe career for Traditional Catholics?
Post by: Alan on November 04, 2018, 04:47:29 AM
Is there anybody who is interested in statistics?
I did a bachelor's degree in computing science. Later, I thought a programming career is not beneficial to 
me because of some reasons, so I enrolled in a statistics course, I felt in love with it immediately. 
Title: Re: Why IT is a safe career for Traditional Catholics?
Post by: dymphnaw on November 04, 2018, 01:40:24 PM
At my office I'd say that IT is a pretty good "safe" profession. Everyone expects the IT guys to be a bit odd so as long at the server is up and the staff can get their work done the IT guys are left in peace. Nobody expects them to make small talk about politics or go to the office happy hours after work. One of our lead engineers is a family man and a devout Jehovah's Witness. Except to let people know that he doesn't appreciate blasphemy in his presence he only talks about work and he's fine. 
Title: Re: Why IT is a safe career for Traditional Catholics?
Post by: apollo on February 25, 2019, 01:41:38 AM
There's IT (Information Technology), SE (Software Engineering) and CS (Computer Science, more theoretical stuff). 
Most of the non-technical people just call it IT.  I've done a little of all kinds, starting in 1969.
.
I NEVER recommend IT careers to anybody, unless you just have to do it or can't do anything else. 
.
Why?  Because every 5 years half of what you know becomes obsolete.  There are some exceptions, (e.i. staying
at one company for 20 years and the company avoids upgrading to newer programming languages). 
Working for state or federal government is like this, slow to change.
.
Problem.  You started working at age 25.  Now you are 50.  You are obsolete, a dinosaur.  New college graduates
are applying to your company who know the latest stuff and ready to work for a starting wage.  

Problem.  You don't get retirement benefits, unless you are lucky to get hired by one of the big companies.
.
Problem.  As a programmer or developer, there are deadlines, fast-paced environments, and free coffee.
.
Problem.  A photographic memory of the most dry technical, human poorly-designed stuff is required.  If you are
a creative artistic person, you will go insane.  Source code can be very ugly and nearly unreadable.  You are
always working with somebody else's ugly code. 
.
Problem.  A new trend is that you work on contract and maybe work from home (no benefits, no eating lunch with
the guys).  The bad part of this is that you have to compete with guys in India who are happy to work for $10/hr.
BTW, Microsofts 2nd largest software development facility is in Hyderbhad, India.
.
Problem.  A recruiter calls and wants to fill a position in Silicon Valley.  He wants to know when was the last time
you worked for a corporation.  You say, 6 months ago.  He says, Thank you, bye.  Hey, it's technology.  You have
to keep up to date.  He is assuming that a corporation will keep you up to date (which may not happen) and you
haven't worked for 6 months and forgot everything.
.
Problem.  There are at least 100 computer language is use today.  Most jobs require that you know at least 5 of
them, preferably 10.  Each company has a different 10 that they want you to know.  So, you thought all programming
jobs were basically the same, easy to move from one company to another.  WRONG. 
.
There are jobs in Silicon Valley, New York City, Chicago, etc., wherever the cost of living is sky high. 
.
At one of my high-points financially, I was working in Houston.  I met a guy who was a hair stylist (part time)
who was making more that I did, and he will be better at 50.  You will be obsolete at 50.
.
I could write a book about this subject.  There are some exceptions.  There are some good jobs out there. 
There are some good bosses out there.  But there are other good professions, also.   Pick one in which you will
be better at 50.





Title: Re: Why IT is a safe career for Traditional Catholics?
Post by: Alan on February 25, 2019, 02:38:10 AM
There's IT (Information Technology), SE (Software Engineering) and CS (Computer Science, more theoretical stuff).  
Most of the non-technical people just call it IT.  I've done a little of all kinds, starting in 1969.
.
I NEVER recommend IT careers to anybody, unless you just have to do it or can't do anything else.  
.
Why?  Because every 5 years half of what you know becomes obsolete.  There are some exceptions, (e.i. staying
at one company for 20 years and the company avoids upgrading to newer programming languages).  
Working for state or federal government is like this, slow to change.
.
Problem.  You started working at age 25.  Now you are 50.  You are obsolete, a dinosaur.  New college graduates
are applying to your company who know the latest stuff and ready to work for a starting wage......

I'd agree with you, I have been thinking of moving into another field. Statistics was what I chose some years ago.
Title: Re: Why IT is a safe career for Traditional Catholics?
Post by: apollo on February 25, 2019, 03:29:46 AM
Statistics is in the math field which may be hard to find work in.
Insurance companies use statisticians, but you may have to compete
with people who have masters degrees in math or statistics.
Title: Re: Why IT is a safe career for Traditional Catholics?
Post by: Alan on February 25, 2019, 04:32:20 AM
Statistics is in the math field which may be hard to find work in.
Insurance companies use statisticians, but you may have to compete
with people who have masters degrees in math or statistics.


It's so true!
You need a master degree to find jobs.
It's a very interesting subject to learn, but difficult to master due to the math involved.
Also there are not a lot of jobs.
Title: Re: Why IT is a safe career for Traditional Catholics?
Post by: Matthew on February 25, 2019, 07:22:45 AM
I NEVER recommend IT careers to anybody, unless you just have to do it or can't do anything else.  
.
Why?  Because every 5 years half of what you know becomes obsolete.  There are some exceptions, (e.i. staying
at one company for 20 years and the company avoids upgrading to newer programming languages).  
Working for state or federal government is like this, slow to change.
.
Problem.  You started working at age 25.  Now you are 50.  You are obsolete, a dinosaur.  New college graduates
are applying to your company who know the latest stuff and ready to work for a starting wage.  
You know the deal! 
By the way, I didn't announce it on CI (and due to my high profile, high target status I won't be handing the world the name of my employer on a silver platter) but I did find a software development job, able to work from home full-time, at the beginning of the year.
It's the first time I've been a hired, full-time employee since 2004. I've always been a contract worker, not necessarily by choice.
Title: Re: Why IT is a safe career for Traditional Catholics?
Post by: Stubborn on February 25, 2019, 08:12:10 AM
You know the deal!
By the way, I didn't announce it on CI (and due to my high profile, high target status I won't be handing the world the name of my employer on a silver platter) but I did find a software development job, able to work from home full-time, at the beginning of the year.
It's the first time I've been a hired, full-time employee since 2004. I've always been a contract worker, not necessarily by choice.
Huge congrats on being "able to work from home full-time." Deo Gratias!
Title: Re: Why IT is a safe career for Traditional Catholics?
Post by: Alan on July 10, 2019, 08:20:05 AM
I NEVER recommend IT careers to anybody, unless you just have to do it or can't do anything else.  
.
Why?  Because every 5 years half of what you know becomes obsolete.  There are some exceptions, (e.i. staying
at one company for 20 years and the company avoids upgrading to newer programming languages).  
Working for state or federal government is like this, slow to change.
.
Problem.  You started working at age 25.  Now you are 50.  You are obsolete, a dinosaur.  New college graduates
are applying to your company who know the latest stuff and ready to work for a starting wage.  
...
...
...
I could write a book about this subject.  There are some exceptions.  There are some good jobs out there.  
There are some good bosses out there.  But there are other good professions, also.   Pick one in which you will
be better at 50.

Wow, I had the same opinions as you !
That's why I chose to study something else years ago. For years, I didn't know what to study.
Finally I chose Statistics 8 years ago. Although it didn't benefit me much financially :(, it influenced my thinking a lot. It's very interesting and I'm still wanting to learn more... you may call me CRAZY!  ::)