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Traditional Catholic Faith => Computers, Technology, Websites => Topic started by: 2Vermont on June 10, 2020, 06:00:42 AM

Title: Various Croix Accounts
Post by: 2Vermont on June 10, 2020, 06:00:42 AM
Hey 1911, or is it Samson Option, or is it Crawdad, or is it.....?

On a downvote rampage all last night/early this morning I see.... don't you have anything better to do with yourself?

:fryingpan:
Title: Re: Various Croix Accounts
Post by: Miseremini on June 10, 2020, 11:48:12 AM
Wouldn't it be great if new members were prohibited from down votes for 6 months?
This would give them time to read past posts and decide if they really want to belong here.
It would also discourage trolls.
Title: Re: Various Croix Accounts
Post by: Quo vadis Domine on June 10, 2020, 12:16:13 PM
Wouldn't it be great if new members were prohibited from down votes for 6 months?
This would give them time to read past posts and decide if they really want to belong here.
It would also discourage trolls.

Great idea, but frankly I think the whole up/down vote thing shouldn’t even be attached to a name. In other words Matthew should just make the votes only by the individual post and not an accuмulation by a member.

I realize that this Croix fellow has very serious mental issues and I really shouldn’t have gone down to his level. As a Catholic I do forgive him for my love for God and I’ll try to refrain from attacking him any more no matter how many downvotes he gives me.
Title: Re: Various Croix Accounts
Post by: 2Vermont on June 10, 2020, 12:59:09 PM
Great idea, but frankly I think the whole up/down vote thing shouldn’t even be attached to a name. In other words Matthew should just make the votes only by the individual post and not an accuмulation by a member.

I realize that this Croix fellow has very serious mental issues and I really shouldn’t have gone down to his level. As a Catholic I do forgive him for my love for God and I’ll try to refrain from attacking him any more no matter how many downvotes he gives me.
What do you mean by this? 
Title: Re: Various Croix Accounts
Post by: Quo vadis Domine on June 10, 2020, 01:01:46 PM
Hey 1911, or is it Samson Option, or is it Crawdad, or is it.....?

On a downvote rampage all last night/early this morning I see.... don't you have anything better to do with yourself?

:fryingpan:
I’m fairly Certain that he’s not actually a Catholic. If he is validly baptized he doesn’t seem to profess the true faith. At the very best he’s a bad Catholic. We still need to forgive our enemies and instead of attacking him, I should have just let it be and prayed for him and his conversion. Mea culpa!!!
Title: Re: Various Croix Accounts
Post by: Quo vadis Domine on June 10, 2020, 01:03:32 PM
What do you mean by this?
Not having the upvotes or downvotes under our names.
Title: Re: Various Croix Accounts
Post by: Matto on June 10, 2020, 01:14:15 PM
I’m fairly Certain that he’s not actually a Catholic.

What are the heresies he expressed on the forum that make him a non-Catholic? As I understood it he was a sedi-privationist. He was not being hated for heresy, but for supposed misogyny and anti-semitism and anti-ketosis and down-voting those who disagreed with him. None of those things would make him a non-Catholic. Perhaps bad Catholic might be fair if one wanted to judge his character.

To be honest, Croix a long time ago said something that I thought was questionable, but it is understandable in these times of uncertainty.
Title: Re: Various Croix Accounts
Post by: 2Vermont on June 10, 2020, 01:22:57 PM
Not having the upvotes or downvotes under our names.
Oh...that is a good idea. 
Title: Re: Various Croix Accounts
Post by: 2Vermont on June 10, 2020, 01:27:38 PM
Wouldn't it be great if new members were prohibited from down votes for 6 months?
This would give them time to read past posts and decide if they really want to belong here.
It would also discourage trolls.
I think a probation period is a good idea as well, but I don't think it would need to be that long.  Trolls typically show their true colors in a relatively short period of time. 
Title: Re: Various Croix Accounts
Post by: Quo vadis Domine on June 10, 2020, 01:45:15 PM
What are the heresies he expressed on the forum that make him a non-Catholic? As I understood it he was a sedi-privationist. He was not being hated for heresy, but for supposed misogyny and anti-semitism and anti-ketosis and down-voting those who disagreed with him. None of those things would make him a non-Catholic. Perhaps bad Catholic might be fair if one wanted to judge his character.

To be honest, Croix a long time ago said something that I thought was questionable, but it is understandable in these times of uncertainty.
It’s a strong gut feeling. Anonymous people who act the way he does don’t deserve the presumption of being a Catholic. He needs prayers.
Title: Re: Various Croix Accounts
Post by: Quo vadis Domine on June 10, 2020, 01:56:39 PM
I’m fairly Certain that he’s not actually a Catholic. If he is validly baptized he doesn’t seem to profess the true faith. At the very best he’s a bad Catholic. We still need to forgive our enemies and instead of attacking him, I should have just let it be and prayed for him and his conversion. Mea culpa!!!
I need to correct what I wrote:  “If he is validly baptized he doesn’t seem to profess the true faith.“

I should have written: “ If he is validly baptized he doesn’t seem to be a person who professes the true faith”
Title: Re: Various Croix Accounts
Post by: Matto on June 10, 2020, 02:30:23 PM
It’s a strong gut feeling. Anonymous people who act the way he does don’t deserve the presumption of being a Catholic. He needs prayers.

So there is nothing he said that is against the faith, it is just your "strong gut feeling" then because he said things that while not heresy you considered uncharitable? Then say he is uncharitable, but not a non-Catholic. The way you said it was very rash in my opinion. When you accuse someone who professed belief, of being a non-Catholic, you should have footnotes. He does not support abortion or ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity, like many supposed Catholic people do.

As the monk said when he was called a fornicator, he said "I am guilty". When he was called a thief he said "I am guilty". When he was called a murderer he said "I am guilty." When he was called a heretic he said "No. I am not a heretic." Why did he admit to all those sins yet deny being a heretic? Because to be a heretic is not a normal sin, it severs one's connection to God in a way greater than other sins.

So without proof you declared your fellow Christian a heretic, one of the worst possible sins, and cast him outside the Church. I know you are used to judging Pope Francis and the Bishops and cardinals and priests as heretics because they believe in Vatican II, but here you are judging another man who professes to believe as you believe to be a heretic. Rashly done. You are trying to kill his reputation, even denying his faith, for no good reason while claiming to be above him and being the charitable one yourself. Pray for him indeed.

If you do have evidence for his heresy, please provide it and we can read it, if not, please be quiet. It would be fair to say he is breaking the forum rules by making new accounts instead of accepting his banishment, but that is not heresy, and he is not the first person to do it.
Title: Re: Various Croix Accounts
Post by: Matto on June 10, 2020, 02:51:24 PM
I remember the time I called one of our famous trad celebrities who posts on the forums a non-Catholic. I said that because he believed in evolution and at the time I thought that was a heresy. It seems I am always defending Croix de Fer. Oh well.

Perhaps you could argue that he used to post videos from the Orthodox monk Brother Nathaniel and the Protestant pastor Dowell and approved of them and this was false ecuмenism, or something. Maybe?
Title: Re: Various Croix Accounts
Post by: Matto on June 10, 2020, 03:12:37 PM
"Look at Quo Vadis Domine, he is severely mentally ill and I am fairly certain he is not actually a Catholic."
Title: Re: Various Croix Accounts
Post by: Ladislaus on June 10, 2020, 03:31:34 PM
Matto, I think it's a bit different to speculate about whether a particular ANONYMOUS poster is a Catholic or not vs. accusing a concrete person of heresy.

What Quo is doing is speculating, based on his behavior and some of his very worldly attitudes, that he may not be a Catholic.  He's shown himself to have imbibed some highly secular viewpoints.  He could in fact be a non-Catholic troll.  We'd never know it due to Anonymity, but to speculate that a certain account belongs to a non-Catholic troll doesn't require the same evidence as a concrete accusation of heresy against a real person.  For all we know, for example, he could in fact be the Jєωιѕн woman he pretended to be with one of his more recent accounts (Karen Yapper).  People pretend to be all kinds of things in the world of online Anonymity.  50-year-old men prevent to be teenage girls, and all manner of abominations.

I often bait Croix out of hiding when he signs up for a new account by pushing various buttons of his that I know are certain to get a reaction.  This begins with speculation, but I must say that 95% of the time, I've been right.  When you don't have concrete evidence, sometimes the journey to truth necessarily begins with speculation.  You form a hypothesis or a theory and then proceed to test it out, almost like with the so-called scientific method.
Title: Re: Various Croix Accounts
Post by: Quo vadis Domine on June 10, 2020, 03:36:26 PM
Matto, I think it's a bit different to speculate about whether a particular ANONYMOUS poster is a Catholic or not vs. accusing a concrete person of heresy.

What Quo is doing is speculating, based on his behavior and some of his very worldly attitudes, that he may not be a Catholic.  He's shown himself to have imbibed some highly secular viewpoints.  He could in fact be a non-Catholic troll.  We'd never know it due to Anonymity, but to speculate that a certain account belongs to a non-Catholic troll doesn't require the same evidence as a concrete accusation of heresy against a real person.  For all we know, for example, he could in fact be the Jєωιѕн woman he pretended to be with one of his more recent accounts (Karen Yapper).  People pretend to be all kinds of things in the world of online Anonimity.  50-year-old men prevent to be teenage girls, and all manner of abominations.
Thank you Lad., you put it much better than I could.
Title: Re: Various Croix Accounts
Post by: 2Vermont on June 10, 2020, 04:52:03 PM
What are the heresies he expressed on the forum that make him a non-Catholic? As I understood it he was a sedi-privationist. He was not being hated for heresy, but for supposed misogyny and anti-semitism and anti-ketosis and down-voting those who disagreed with him. None of those things would make him a non-Catholic. Perhaps bad Catholic might be fair if one wanted to judge his character.

To be honest, Croix a long time ago said something that I thought was questionable, but it is understandable in these times of uncertainty.
It might come as a surprise, but I do not think I would say he is a non-Catholic.  
Title: Re: Various Croix Accounts
Post by: Ladislaus on June 10, 2020, 05:45:11 PM
It might come as a surprise, but I do not think I would say he is a non-Catholic.  

I'm honestly not sure who/what he is anymore, since he's adopted so many different personalities.
Title: Re: Various Croix Accounts
Post by: Crawdad on June 10, 2020, 09:08:33 PM
So there is nothing he said that is against the faith, it is just your "strong gut feeling" then because he said things that while not heresy you considered uncharitable? Then say he is uncharitable, but not a non-Catholic. The way you said it was very rash in my opinion. When you accuse someone who professed belief, of being a non-Catholic, you should have footnotes. He does not support abortion or ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity, like many supposed Catholic people do.

As the monk said when he was called a fornicator, he said "I am guilty". When he was called a thief he said "I am guilty". When he was called a murderer he said "I am guilty." When he was called a heretic he said "No. I am not a heretic." Why did he admit to all those sins yet deny being a heretic? Because to be a heretic is not a normal sin, it severs one's connection to God in a way greater than other sins.

So without proof you declared your fellow Christian a heretic, one of the worst possible sins, and cast him outside the Church. I know you are used to judging Pope Francis and the Bishops and cardinals and priests as heretics because they believe in Vatican II, but here you are judging another man who professes to believe as you believe to be a heretic. Rashly done. You are trying to kill his reputation, even denying his faith, for no good reason while claiming to be above him and being the charitable one yourself. Pray for him indeed.

If you do have evidence for his heresy, please provide it and we can read it, if not, please be quiet. It would be fair to say he is breaking the forum rules by making new accounts instead of accepting his banishment, but that is not heresy, and he is not the first person to do it.

Excellent comment
Title: Re: Various Croix Accounts
Post by: 2Vermont on June 13, 2020, 04:23:08 PM
Now that Matthew has banned Crawdad, I see one of his other accounts Samson Option has taken up where he left off!  


:laugh1:

Title: Re: Various Croix Accounts
Post by: 2Vermont on June 13, 2020, 04:57:57 PM
jajajajaja jejejejeje :-D
dodododo dadadada   :fryingpan:
Title: Re: Various Croix Accounts
Post by: Jaynek on June 14, 2020, 03:40:02 PM
If you do have evidence for his heresy, please provide it and we can read it, if not, please be quiet. It would be fair to say he is breaking the forum rules by making new accounts instead of accepting his banishment, but that is not heresy, and he is not the first person to do it.
Well said, Matto.  Heresy is far too serious a matter to make accusations without evidence.  We can't go around shouting "heretic" every time we don't like people or think they aren't nice.
Title: Re: Various Croix Accounts
Post by: Quo vadis Domine on June 14, 2020, 05:56:23 PM
Well said, Matto.  Heresy is far too serious a matter to make accusations without evidence.  We can't go around shouting "heretic" every time we don't like people or think they aren't nice.


As I recall, I never wrote the word “heretic“, I simply suggested that Croix, in my opinion, was not a Catholic. In my nearly 30 years as a traditional Catholic, I have never met an anonymous “traditional Catholic” that has ever acted the way he does. There are several people on this forum who know me either by reputation or in actuality. These people can vouch that I’m a Catholic, the same can’t be said of Croix. He is worldly, he is a liar, he has multiple false accounts, he is vengeful, he attacks and accuses Jєωιѕн converts of being Marranos just because they were once Jєωιѕн. Jaynek, did you or Matto call him out for accusing 2Vermont of being a Jєωιѕн infiltrator? Croix reminds me of a cousin of mine who has been caught several times attacking people online pretending to be someone else.
Title: Re: Various Croix Accounts
Post by: Jaynek on June 14, 2020, 06:24:07 PM

As I recall, I never wrote the word “heretic“, I simply suggested that Croix, in my opinion, was not a Catholic. In my nearly 30 years as a traditional Catholic, I have never met an anonymous “traditional Catholic” that has ever acted the way he does. There are several people on this forum who know me either by reputation or in actuality. These people can vouch that I’m a Catholic, the same can’t be said of Croix. He is worldly, he is a liar, he has multiple false accounts, he is vengeful, he attacks and accuses Jєωιѕн converts of being Marranos just because they were once Jєωιѕн. Jaynek, did you or Matto call him out for accusing 2Vermont of being a Jєωιѕн infiltrator? Croix reminds me of a cousin of mine who has been caught several times attacking people online pretending to be someone else.
You said that "he does not seem to profess the true faith"which is the equivalent of calling someone a heretic.  It means you are talking about his beliefs, not his behaviour. 

I am not saying that I approve of his behaviour.  I don't approve.  Not at all.  But every single Catholic on this forum falls short of behaving as we ought at times and that does mean that we are not Catholic.  If you want to say he does not behave as a Catholic should, that is reasonable.  It does not follow that he does not profess the true faith.

If I noticed him accusing 2Vermont of being a Jєωιѕн infiltrator, I would have down-voted it.  I can't remember whether that happened because there are too many posts under too many names to keep track.
Title: Re: Various Croix Accounts
Post by: Matto on June 14, 2020, 06:31:12 PM

He is worldly, he is a liar, he has multiple false accounts, he is vengeful, he attacks and accuses Jєωιѕн converts of being Marranos just because they were once Jєωιѕн. Jaynek, did you or Matto call him out for accusing 2Vermont of being a Jєωιѕн infiltrator?

I do not call out people every time an accusation is made because it happens very often, so I only do it once in a blue moon. Most of the time I just ignore it. I have defended 2vermont against accusations of being a maranno in the past and I know Jayne is often accused of the same. I defended Croix in this instance because it seemed like you attacked him unjustly while acting like you were better than him. And so many people attack Croix and no one defends him. Often for me, when it comes to murky waters like possible detractions or calumnies or perhaps just judgments I think are rash or unwarranted it is hard to know how to respond.
Title: Re: Various Croix Accounts
Post by: Incredulous on June 14, 2020, 06:35:22 PM

As an ex member of French special forces... Croix has many talents and is a master of disguise.

(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fi.pinimg.com%2Foriginals%2Fd9%2F69%2F9f%2Fd9699ffaf4a78632040c1aa3b1ac606f.jpg&f=1&nofb=1)

But more importantly, he's a traditional Catholic who detest liberals, feminists, тαℓмυdic Jєωs, American communists, and rioting blacks.

To call him a heretic is completely off base.

Title: Re: Various Croix Accounts
Post by: Quo vadis Domine on June 14, 2020, 06:42:54 PM
You said that "he does not seem to profess the true faith"which is the equivalent of calling someone a heretic.  It means you are talking about his beliefs, not his behaviour.

I am not saying that I approve of his behaviour.  I don't approve.  Not at all.  But every single Catholic on this forum falls short of behaving as we ought at times and that does mean that we are not Catholic.  If you want to say he does not behave as a Catholic should, that is reasonable.  It does not follow that he does not profess the true faith.

If I noticed him accusing 2Vermont of being a Jєωιѕн infiltrator, I would have down-voted it.  I can't remember whether that happened because there are too many posts under too many names to keep track.

I corrected that to read: “If he is validly baptized  he doesn’t seem to be a person who professes the true faith.”
Title: Re: Various Croix Accounts
Post by: Jaynek on June 14, 2020, 06:55:12 PM
I corrected that to read: “If he is validly baptized  he doesn’t seem to be a person who professes the true faith.”
That does not make it any better.  A profession of faith is a statement of one's beliefs. Here is an example: "I believe and profess all that the holy Catholic Church believes, teaches, and proclaims to be revealed by God."

A person who professes the true faith is a Catholic.  You are saying that he does not seem like a Catholic, especially in what he says about his beliefs.  That just isn't a fair criticism.
Title: Re: Various Croix Accounts
Post by: Quo vadis Domine on June 14, 2020, 07:08:39 PM
That does not make it any better.  A profession of faith is a statement of one's beliefs. Here is an example: "I believe and profess all that the holy Catholic Church believes, teaches, and proclaims to be revealed by God."

A person who professes the true faith is a Catholic.  You are saying that he does not seem like a Catholic, especially in what he says about his beliefs.  That just isn't a fair criticism.
Sorry, it does make a whole world of difference. In the former statement I would have to show proof of heresy, in the latter, I would not.

Look, the guy seems to me to be a troll who attacks REAL traditional Catholics. If you don’t think that’s a likelihood, I know a Nigerian prince who wants to send you an inheritance.
Title: Re: Various Croix Accounts
Post by: 2Vermont on June 14, 2020, 07:56:48 PM
As an ex member of French special forces... Croix has many talents and is a master of disguise.
Sorry Incredulous but it's been fairly easy to spot, so no, he is not a master of disguise.  It would behoove him to stop downvoting indiscriminately because that is the fastest way he gives himself away.
Title: Re: Various Croix Accounts
Post by: 2Vermont on June 14, 2020, 08:26:33 PM
Another weak woman who can't take the heat after she dishes it out?

No. Don't leave, if you don't want to leave.

I'll keep coming back until Matthew removes the ban of my original IP (under Croix de Fer). I want it removed so I can easily surf this site for archives. Once that ban is removed, I will not make a new account here, nor will I post as Croix, unless I'm invited back. You all have my word.
When I have told you you're not Catholic?  I have never dished that out.  But you continue to attack me by saying I'm not Catholic and still a Jєω.  Yeah I'll admit it. That hurts.  If that makes me a weak woman so be it.  Must make you feel like a real man to make a woman cry...but hey it's just a Jєω's' feelings right?  I'm so done with your attacks.  You need to shut your trap for good.
Title: Re: Various Croix Accounts
Post by: Quo vadis Domine on June 14, 2020, 08:32:03 PM
You all have my word.
The word of a multi confirmed liar 🤥 .
Title: Re: Various Croix Accounts
Post by: Quo vadis Domine on June 14, 2020, 08:44:42 PM
When I have told you you're not Catholic?  I have never dished that out.  But you continue to attack me by saying I'm not Catholic and still a Jєω.  Yeah I'll admit it. That hurts.  If that makes me a weak woman so be it.  Must make you feel like a real man to make a woman cry...but hey it's just a Jєω's' feelings right?  I'm so done with your attacks.  You need to shut your trap for good.
Frankly, I’m considering leaving also. Matthew needs to recruit more moderators in order to moderate the forum properly. 
Title: Re: Various Croix Accounts
Post by: Quo vadis Domine on June 14, 2020, 09:39:04 PM
When I have told you you're not Catholic?  I have never dished that out.  But you continue to attack me by saying I'm not Catholic and still a Jєω.  Yeah I'll admit it. That hurts.  If that makes me a weak woman so be it.  Must make you feel like a real man to make a woman cry...but hey it's just a Jєω's' feelings right?  I'm so done with your attacks.  You need to shut your trap for good.
He’s not worth crying over. I have to shake my head when I recall that certain members of this forum questioned my suspicion that Croix is a non-Catholic. Folks, for all you know Croix could be a Jєω, a Mussulman, an atheist, or even a Satanist. Two things are absolutely certain: 1) he’s not a good Catholic (if in fact he is one, which I highly doubt) and 2) he’s a brazen liar.
Title: Re: Various Croix Accounts
Post by: Jaynek on June 15, 2020, 06:11:41 AM
He’s not worth crying over. I have to shake my head when I recall that certain members of this forum questioned my suspicion that Croix is a non-Catholic. Folks, for all you know Croix could be a Jєω, a Mussulman, an atheist, or even a Satanist. Two things are absolutely certain: 1) he’s not a good Catholic (if in fact he is one, which I highly doubt) and 2) he’s a brazen liar.

For all we know, you could be a Jєω, etc.  It is the nature of an online forum that it is always possible that people are not who they say they are.  Croix de Fer, however, joined Cathinfo in 2011 (originally under the name ascent, later changing, with permission, to Croix de Fer) when he was very new to traditional Catholicism and has a continuous history here of thousands of posts.  He was a member in good standing until he was banned around two years ago.  In protest of being banned he started a campaign of trolling the forum using multiple accounts.

He spent years as a normal poster participating in the forum.  At first, he asked a lot of questions and advice as one would expect of a new trad.  Over time he developed opinions on a range of topics, none of them especially unusual for CI.  He wrote about his pets.  He responded to prayer requests with prayers.  There is a seven year posting history showing a consistent picture of a traditional Catholic, much like any of us, and there is no real reason to question that.

While I do not approve of his trolling campaign, I can understand that he believes he was unjustly banned and feels resentment.  This does not make him a horrible person nor an especially bad Catholic. And  I have no idea where the accusation that he is a liar comes from.  I cannot think of any evidence to support that claim. You started this thread claiming that you were going to stop attacking Croix and yet you continue to do so throughout.  There is more reason to question your honesty than his.

You QVD have only been a member here a bit over a year, so you are probably unaware of all this.  You don't have a sense of ascent/Croix as person or know anything about the circuмstances under which he was banned.  You are basing conclusions on a limited subset of the available information, making it highly unlikely that you are correct.
Title: Re: Various Croix Accounts
Post by: Jaynek on June 15, 2020, 06:24:56 AM
Quote
I'll keep coming back until Matthew removes the ban of my original IP (under Croix de Fer). I want it removed so I can easily surf this site for archives. Once that ban is removed, I will not make a new account here, nor will I post as Croix, unless I'm invited back. You all have my word.
My reading of Matthew's character is that he does not respond to threats with compliance.  I do not expect this to achieve your goal.  It is more likely to antagonize Matthew and make him more determined to oppose you.

I think you would be more successful if you stop trolling, write to Matthew privately and apologize for breaking the forum rules, and politely request that he give you a legit account.  

(For what it's worth, I would accept your word.)
Title: Re: Various Croix Accounts
Post by: Incredulous on June 15, 2020, 06:28:08 AM

Solid, analytical advice.

I like Jaynek !  :cowboy:
Title: Re: Various Croix Accounts
Post by: 2Vermont on June 15, 2020, 07:13:32 AM
Thank you Quo.  I know that your recent posts against Croix were made out of support for me.  Although I still won't call him a non-Catholic, it's interesting that others are more concerned with what you have said about Croix than what Croix has said about crypto Jєω posters now and in the past.  I wish Matthew hadn't deleted his posts, especially the nasty one about my being a low IQ Jєω.  
Title: Re: Various Croix Accounts
Post by: Quo vadis Domine on June 15, 2020, 07:40:49 AM
For all we know, you could be a Jєω, etc.  It is the nature of an online forum that it is always possible that people are not who they say they are.  Croix de Fer, however, joined Cathinfo in 2011 (originally under the name ascent, later changing, with permission, to Croix de Fer) when he was very new to traditional Catholicism and has a continuous history here of thousands of posts.  He was a member in good standing until he was banned around two years ago.  In protest of being banned he started a campaign of trolling the forum using multiple accounts.

He spent years as a normal poster participating in the forum.  At first, he asked a lot of questions and advice as one would expect of a new trad.  Over time he developed opinions on a range of topics, none of them especially unusual for CI.  He wrote about his pets.  He responded to prayer requests with prayers.  There is a seven year posting history showing a consistent picture of a traditional Catholic, much like any of us, and there is no real reason to question that.

While I do not approve of his trolling campaign, I can understand that he believes he was unjustly banned and feels resentment.  This does not make him a horrible person nor an especially bad Catholic. And  I have no idea where the accusation that he is a liar comes from.  I cannot think of any evidence to support that claim. You started this thread claiming that you were going to stop attacking Croix and yet you continue to do so throughout.  There is more reason to question your honesty than his.

You QVD have only been a member here a bit over a year, so you are probably unaware of all this.  You don't have a sense of ascent/Croix as person or know anything about the circuмstances under which he was banned.  You are basing conclusions on a limited subset of the available information, making it highly unlikely that you are correct.

Seriously? He was banned for a reason, do you know why? You have no idea where the accusation of being a liar comes from??? Did you read his posts? One very recent example: he just admitted he was, in fact, Croix while denying it many times in the past.

Did you read my posts? Obviously, if you did, you didn’t do so with much attention. If you read my posts you might have noticed that I said that there are people on this forum who know me personally, so your accusation that I might be a Jєω is absolutely ridiculous and disingenuous. I have read this forum from nearly it’s inception and my old account was suspended a while back, so I’m not as new as you presume!

What he did does make him a bad Catholic and a horrible person, if he is actually a real Catholic. Did you see what he did to 2Vermont??? He probably accounts for 90% of my downvotes and the only reason for his attacks, that I can imagine, is that I came to the defense of 2Vermont. How do you have the nerve to write this: “ There is more reason to question your honesty than his.”??? Give me an example of my dishonesty or retract that statement....
Title: Re: Various Croix Accounts
Post by: Quo vadis Domine on June 15, 2020, 07:46:13 AM
For all we know, you could be a Jєω, etc.  It is the nature of an online forum that it is always possible that people are not who they say they are.  Croix de Fer, however, joined Cathinfo in 2011 (originally under the name ascent, later changing, with permission, to Croix de Fer) when he was very new to traditional Catholicism and has a continuous history here of thousands of posts.  He was a member in good standing until he was banned around two years ago.  In protest of being banned he started a campaign of trolling the forum using multiple accounts.

He spent years as a normal poster participating in the forum.  At first, he asked a lot of questions and advice as one would expect of a new trad.  Over time he developed opinions on a range of topics, none of them especially unusual for CI.  He wrote about his pets.  He responded to prayer requests with prayers.  There is a seven year posting history showing a consistent picture of a traditional Catholic, much like any of us, and there is no real reason to question that.

While I do not approve of his trolling campaign, I can understand that he believes he was unjustly banned and feels resentment.  This does not make him a horrible person nor an especially bad Catholic. And  I have no idea where the accusation that he is a liar comes from.  I cannot think of any evidence to support that claim. You started this thread claiming that you were going to stop attacking Croix and yet you continue to do so throughout.  There is more reason to question your honesty than his.

You QVD have only been a member here a bit over a year, so you are probably unaware of all this.  You don't have a sense of ascent/Croix as person or know anything about the circuмstances under which he was banned.  You are basing conclusions on a limited subset of the available information, making it highly unlikely that you are correct.
I didn’t even give this post a downvote and you deserve it!
Title: Re: Various Croix Accounts
Post by: Jaynek on June 15, 2020, 07:48:57 AM
Thank you Quo.  I know that your recent posts against Croix were made out of support for me.  Although I still won't call him a non-Catholic, it's interesting that others are more concerned with what you have said about Croix than what Croix has said about crypto Jєω posters now and in the past.  I wish Matthew hadn't deleted his posts, especially the nasty one about my being a low IQ Jєω.  
I doubt that there is anyone on this forum who understands how horrible you feel to be called a crypto-Jєω as well as I do.  From what I've seen, these comments are low blows, designed to hurt, rather than reasonable responses to your positions.   You know as well as I do that there is nothing I can do about it.  Any words of support that I were to give you would be dismissed as Jєωs sticking up for each other.

I don't like Croix having a personal vendetta against you and I don't like him expressing it by suggesting you did not sincerely convert.  But that does mean that Quo should make things up about him.  
Title: Re: Various Croix Accounts
Post by: Quo vadis Domine on June 15, 2020, 07:53:16 AM
But that does mean that Quo should make things up about him.  
I made up nothing. I personally don’t believe he is a Catholic. Do you know him in real life? If you don’t, that Nigerian prince is waiting to hear from you.....
Title: Re: Various Croix Accounts
Post by: Jaynek on June 15, 2020, 08:04:06 AM
Seriously? He was banned for a reason, do you know why? You have no idea where the accusation of being a liar comes from??? Did you read his posts? One very recent example: he just admitted he was, in fact, Croix while denying it many times in the past.

Did you read my posts? Obviously, if you did, you didn’t do so with much attention. If you read my posts you might have noticed that I said that there are people on this forum who know me personally, so your accusation that I might be a Jєω is absolutely ridiculous and disingenuous. I have read this forum from nearly it’s inception and my old account was suspended a while back, so I’m not as new as you presume!

What he did does make him a bad Catholic and a horrible person, if he is actually a real Catholic. Did you see what he did to 2Vermont??? He probably accounts for 90% of my downvotes and the only reason for his attacks, that I can imagine, is that I came to the defense of 2Vermont. How do you have the nerve to write this: “ There is more reason to question your honesty than his.”??? Give me an example of my dishonesty or retract that statement....
I was giving you the benefit of the doubt by assuming that you were unaware of Croix's long posting history.  If you have been making these wild accusations while knowing about it, this does not reflect well on you.  

I have seen elaborate fake accounts, in which the same individual created multiple personas who vouched for each other.  Saying that there are people on this forum who know you personally does not prove anything.  I do not seriously question that you are who you say, but there is no more reason for me to accept you than to accept Croix.

I already gave the reason I have to question your honesty.  You said that you would stop attacking Croix and you did not keep your word.
Title: Re: Various Croix Accounts
Post by: Quo vadis Domine on June 15, 2020, 08:17:04 AM
I was giving you the benefit of the doubt by assuming that you were unaware of Croix's long posting history.  If you have been making these wild accusations while knowing about it, this does not reflect well on you.  

I have seen elaborate fake accounts, in which the same individual created multiple personas who vouched for each other.  Saying that there are people on this forum who know you personally does not prove anything.  I do not seriously question that you are who you say, but there is no more reason for me to accept you than to accept Croix.

I already gave the reason I have to question your honesty.  You said that you would stop attacking Croix and you did not keep your word.

Here is what I wrote: “ As a Catholic I do forgive him for my love for God and I’ll try to refrain from attacking him any more no matter how many downvotes he gives me.” If you bothered to use the grey matter that God gave you and actually read my posts, you will realize that I stopped attacking his masculinity and that is what I was referring to. Now please retract your accusation.


Title: Re: Various Croix Accounts
Post by: Jaynek on June 15, 2020, 08:28:21 AM
Here is what I wrote: “ As a Catholic I do forgive him for my love for God and I’ll try to refrain from attacking him any more no matter how many downvotes he gives me.” If you bothered to use the grey matter that God gave you and actually read my posts, you will realize that I stopped attacking his masculinity and that is what I was referring to. Now please retract your accusation.
You are not asking me to read your posts but to read your mind.  Nobody could read "I’ll try to refrain from attacking him any more no matter how many downvotes he gives me" and think that you were announcing your intention to stop attacking his masculinity but to attack his sanity and Catholicism instead.  

Your above attempt to pretend that your words meant something other than their clear meaning is yet further evidence of  dishonesty.
Title: Re: Various Croix Accounts
Post by: Quo vadis Domine on June 15, 2020, 08:46:07 AM
You are not asking me to read your posts but to read your mind.  Nobody could read "I’ll try to refrain from attacking him any more no matter how many downvotes he gives me" and think that you were announcing your intention to stop attacking his masculinity but to attack his sanity and Catholicism instead.  

Your above attempt to pretend that your words meant something other than their clear meaning is yet further evidence of  dishonesty.
If you bothered to read my posts you will easily see that I was attacking him by referring to him as he/she, calling him a tranny, and saying he was effeminate. By you attacking me for defending a woman who is a Jєωιѕн convert against a horrible, bullying liar, is really rich. Frankly, I think your pride won’t allow you to admit you are wrong, you need to do some serious introspection. No need to apologize, I forgive you too.
Title: Re: Various Croix Accounts
Post by: Jaynek on June 15, 2020, 08:52:42 AM
If you bothered to read my posts you will easily see that I was attacking him by referring to him as he/she, calling him a tranny, and saying he was effeminate. By you attacking me for defending a woman who is a Jєωιѕн convert against a horrible, bullying liar, is really rich. Frankly, I think your pride won’t allow you to admit you are wrong, you need to do some serious introspection. No need to apologize, I forgive you too.
I have no objection at all to you defending 2Vermont, if you use honest and reasonable means to do so.

Given that your "forgiveness" of Croix looks like an unending series of personal attacks, I would really rather that you not forgive me.  
Title: Re: Various Croix Accounts
Post by: Quo vadis Domine on June 15, 2020, 09:00:24 AM
I have no objection at all to you defending 2Vermont, if you use honest and reasonable means to do so.

Given that your "forgiveness" of Croix looks like an unending series of personal attacks, I would really rather that you not forgive me.  
I just put you on my ignore list as I find you a vexation to my spirit. I suggest you do the same for me. God bless you.
Title: Re: Various Croix Accounts
Post by: Jaynek on June 15, 2020, 09:23:48 AM
I just put you on my ignore list as I find you a vexation to my spirit. I suggest you do the same for me. God bless you.
I have no personal animosity toward you, so I do not think that it is necessary for me to put you on my ignore list.  
Title: Re: Various Croix Accounts
Post by: Ladislaus on June 15, 2020, 10:51:41 AM
It does not follow that he does not profess the true faith.

What I wrote to Matto applies to this comment as well.  We are not dealing with a known concrete person here but an anonymous persona on the internet.  Speculation about whether or not he's Catholic is not the same as accusing someone who "professes" the true faith of being a heretic.  People assume fake identities all the time, with men pretending to be teenage girls, and all manner of nonsense.  Who's to actually know whether this Croix is actually a professing Catholic.  Since he remains anonymous, his true beliefs, motives, agendas, etc. are open to speculation, and Quo has done nothing improper in voicing his suspicions about who this man/woman/boy/girl really is.
Title: Re: Various Croix Accounts
Post by: Quo vadis Domine on June 15, 2020, 11:30:50 AM
What I wrote to Matto applies to this comment as well.  We are not dealing with a known concrete person here but an anonymous persona on the internet.  Speculation about whether or not he's Catholic is not the same as accusing someone who "professes" the true faith of being a heretic.  People assume fake identities all the time, with men pretending to be teenage girls, and all manner of nonsense.  Who's to actually know whether this Croix is actually a professing Catholic.  Since he remains anonymous, his true beliefs, motives, agendas, etc. are open to speculation, and Quo has done nothing improper in voicing his suspicions about who this man/woman/boy/girl really is.
Much appreciated, Lad!
Title: Re: Various Croix Accounts
Post by: Jaynek on June 15, 2020, 11:38:16 AM
What I wrote to Matto applies to this comment as well.  We are not dealing with a known concrete person here but an anonymous persona on the internet.  Speculation about whether or not he's Catholic is not the same as accusing someone who "professes" the true faith of being a heretic.  People assume fake identities all the time, with men pretending to be teenage girls, and all manner of nonsense.  Who's to actually know whether this Croix is actually a professing Catholic.  Since he remains anonymous, his true beliefs, motives, agendas, etc. are open to speculation, and Quo has done nothing improper in voicing his suspicions about who this man/woman/boy/girl really is.
While this may serve as an argument against claims that such comments are defamation or detraction, that is not the issue here.  When an online persona has made no statements contrary to Catholic doctrine, it is wrong to describe him as someone who does not profess the true faith.  It may not be an offence against a concrete person, but it is an offence against the idea of what it means to profess the true faith.

Professing false doctrines is an extremely serious thing.  To accuse people of it as a mere insult, to make it the rhetorical equivalent of saying "you poopoohead" diminishes the importance of sound doctrine.  When someone actually speaks against the Catholic faith, we need to strongly condemn it.  How will we do so when the necessary words have been robbed of their strength and meaning through use in petty personal attacks?

I do not know anyone on this forum personally.  As far as I know, anyone here might not actually be a Catholic.  But it would be absurd to accuse people of this every time someone does something I don't like.  I reserve comments about heresy or not professing the true faith for times when someone has made a statement contrary to Catholic teaching.
Title: Re: Various Croix Accounts
Post by: Ladislaus on June 15, 2020, 12:07:38 PM
While this may serve as an argument against claims that such comments are defamation or detraction, that is not the issue here.  When an online persona has made no statements contrary to Catholic doctrine, it is wrong to describe him as someone who does not profess the true faith.  It may not be an offence against a concrete person, but it is an offence against the idea of what it means to profess the true faith.

No it isn't, Jayne.  You miss the entire point that we don't really know if this person actually professes the faith.  Profession is a public act of a real person and has no bearing on the question of whether someone might be simulating a profession anonymously on the internet.  There's no such thing as an anonymous profession that has any bearing on establishing one's membership in the Church.  Membership in the Church is public and cannot be made anonymously.  If someone went on a forum and professed to be a teenage girl, but then started dropping clues that he's really a middle-aged man, then we'd be under no obligation not to begin speculating about the reality of his identity.  That's precisely what Quo has done here, and there's no issue with it.

If we were talking about a specific person who publicly professed and practiced the faith, then any accusation/charge of lacking the faith needs to be backed up with very solid evidence indeed.
Title: Re: Various Croix Accounts
Post by: Jaynek on June 15, 2020, 01:24:57 PM
No it isn't, Jayne.  You miss the entire point that we don't really know if this person actually professes the faith.  Profession is a public act of a real person and has no bearing on the question of whether someone might be simulating a profession anonymously on the internet.  There's no such thing as an anonymous profession that has any bearing on establishing one's membership in the Church.  Membership in the Church is public and cannot be made anonymously.  If someone went on a forum and professed to be a teenage girl, but then started dropping clues that he's really a middle-aged man, then we'd be under no obligation not to begin speculating about the reality of his identity.  That's precisely what Quo has done here, and there's no issue with it.

If we were talking about a specific person who publicly professed and practiced the faith, then any accusation/charge of lacking the faith needs to be backed up with very solid evidence indeed.
Let's say for the sake of argument that this is correct.  That means that neither you nor I nor anybody here can be said to profess the true faith on this forum due to the nature of web forums.  Therefore Quo made a practically meaningless statement about Croix since it applies to everyone on the forum just as much as it does to Croix and has nothing to do with anything he said or did.
Title: Re: Various Croix Accounts
Post by: 2Vermont on June 15, 2020, 04:29:13 PM
I was giving you the benefit of the doubt by assuming that you were unaware of Croix's long posting history.  If you have been making these wild accusations while knowing about it, this does not reflect well on you.  

I have seen elaborate fake accounts, in which the same individual created multiple personas who vouched for each other.  Saying that there are people on this forum who know you personally does not prove anything.  I do not seriously question that you are who you say, but there is no more reason for me to accept you than to accept Croix.

I already gave the reason I have to question your honesty.  You said that you would stop attacking Croix and you did not keep your word.
No, he said he would try to stop attacking Croix. Nothing dishonest about it.

I still find it fascinating at how much time and energy you have put into defending Croix.  What I do know is that it has been a long time since he's accused you of still being a Jєω. Perhaps this defense will keep you in his good graces when he returns yet again.
Title: Re: Various Croix Accounts
Post by: 2Vermont on June 15, 2020, 04:44:53 PM
I doubt that there is anyone on this forum who understands how horrible you feel to be called a crypto-Jєω as well as I do.  From what I've seen, these comments are low blows, designed to hurt, rather than reasonable responses to your positions.   You know as well as I do that there is nothing I can do about it.  Any words of support that I were to give you would be dismissed as Jєωs sticking up for each other.

I don't like Croix having a personal vendetta against you and I don't like him expressing it by suggesting you did not sincerely convert.  But that does mean that Quo should make things up about him.  
Much of what you wrote here would have been welcome, and I disagree that Croix would have given you a hard time.  
Title: Re: Various Croix Accounts
Post by: Jaynek on June 15, 2020, 05:26:24 PM
No, he said he would try to stop attacking Croix. Nothing dishonest about it.
This would be plausible if Quo had said something like "Yeah, I was trying to to stop attacking Croix but I just couldn't manage to do it."  But instead Quo said that he just meant that would stop attacking Croix's masculinity but intended to continue to attack everything else.

I still find it fascinating at how much time and energy you have put into defending Croix.  What I do know is that it has been a long time since he's accused you of still being a Jєω. Perhaps this defense will keep you in his good graces when he returns yet again.
For me this is not about defending Croix but about the principle that one should not frivolously claim that people are not professing the true faith.

I certainly don't defend accusing converts of being crypto-Jєωs when there is no evidence whatsoever this is true, simply as a way to be hurtful.  I think it is cruel and wrong.

And there isn't really any way to defend spending two years trolling a forum out of resentment for being banned.  I hope that Croix will let go of this and move on with his life. I do not think it is in his best interests to return to the forum. He is obviously bright, creative person and there are far better uses of his energy and his talents. I wish him well. 
Title: Re: Various Croix Accounts
Post by: Ladislaus on June 15, 2020, 05:48:11 PM
Let's say for the sake of argument that this is correct.  That means that neither you nor I nor anybody here can be said to profess the true faith on this forum due to the nature of web forums.  Therefore Quo made a practically meaningless statement about Croix since it applies to everyone on the forum just as much as it does to Croix and has nothing to do with anything he said or did.

Yes, of course Quo's statement was relatively meaningless; it was pure speculation.  It has no bearing on whether or not the person who has signed up as Croix (and a dozen other accounts) actually professes the Catholic faith.  That fact is independent of anything that has occurred on this forum.  Now, for those of us whose identities have been made known, that's a different story ... assuming that too isn't a lie.  I mean, who's to verify that Ladislaus is in fact actually the person I actually said I was?
Title: Re: Various Croix Accounts
Post by: 2Vermont on June 15, 2020, 06:00:10 PM
This would be plausible if Quo had said something like "Yeah, I was trying to to stop attacking Croix but I just couldn't manage to do it."  But instead Quo said that he just meant that would stop attacking Croix's masculinity but intended to continue to attack everything else.
For me this is not about defending Croix but about the principle that one should not frivolously claim that people are not professing the true faith.

I certainly don't defend accusing converts of being crypto-Jєωs when there is no evidence whatsoever this is true, simply as a way to be hurtful.  I think it is cruel and wrong.

And there isn't really any way to defend spending two years trolling a forum out of resentment for being banned.  I hope that Croix will let go of this and move on with his life. I do not think it is in his best interests to return to the forum. He is obviously bright, creative person and there are far better uses of his energy and his talents. I wish him well.
Again, it is interesting that you had such a problem with Croix being called a non-Catholic, but had nothing to say about him calling me a non-Catholic.  Until I questioned you. 
Title: Re: Various Croix Accounts
Post by: Jaynek on June 15, 2020, 07:23:57 PM
Again, it is interesting that you had such a problem with Croix being called a non-Catholic, but had nothing to say about him calling me a non-Catholic.  Until I questioned you.
I never saw him calling you a non-Catholic.  Whatever he said apparently got deleted before I saw it.  I only knew about it from you mentioning it.
Title: Re: Various Croix Accounts
Post by: Jaynek on June 15, 2020, 08:42:20 PM
While I have no doubts about the sincerity of your conversion,2Vermont, you still have the stereotypical Jєωιѕн characteristic of demanding that people acknowledge what a victim you are.  I expressed disapproval of Croix calling you a crypto-Jєω.  I even did so twice, but you are still complaining that I did not do it up to your standards.  
Title: Re: Various Croix Accounts
Post by: 2Vermont on June 16, 2020, 05:59:00 AM
While I have no doubts about the sincerity of your conversion,2Vermont, you still have the stereotypical Jєωιѕн characteristic of demanding that people acknowledge what a victim you are.  I expressed disapproval of Croix calling you a crypto-Jєω.  I even did so twice, but you are still complaining that I did not do it up to your standards.  
Ooooh...bonus points for JayneK.  Croix will really love this!  

Jayne, I don't really care about what you think.  I know that's hard for you to comprehend.  What I am doing is showing you are a hypocrite.  I have never seen you go after Croix the way you have gone after Quo here.  Quo at best succuмbed to weakness.  He didn't lie.  But you keep hounding him that he is dishonest. 
Title: Re: Various Croix Accounts
Post by: 2Vermont on June 16, 2020, 06:11:12 AM
I never saw him calling you a non-Catholic.  Whatever he said apparently got deleted before I saw it.  I only knew about it from you mentioning it.
So, even though you didn't see all of the exchanges, you still thought you had the obligation to judge Quo's reaction to them.

Title: Re: Various Croix Accounts
Post by: Jaynek on June 16, 2020, 08:21:38 AM
Jayne, I don't really care about what you think.  I know that's hard for you to comprehend.  What I am doing is showing you are a hypocrite.  I have never seen you go after Croix the way you have gone after Quo here.  
In addition to the reasons I've already given, I generally try not to say anything about people making crypto-Jєω accusations, even against myself, because I am trying to train myself to stop doing it.  (And any defense I make of you in this regard ends up being an indirect defense of myself.)  The Jєωιѕн/worldly way of responding to suffering is to draw attention to oneself as a victim and demand pity, support, compensation, etc.  The Catholic way of responding to suffering is to unite one's sufferings with Christ and use it as a way to grow closer to Him.  As I understand it, in good Catholic homes, people are taught to "offer it up" starting from childhood.  I suspect it is easier to learn that way compared to as an adult trying to overcome a lifetime of bad habits.  I know that I struggle a lot with this and have only started making any progress in the last few years in the way I deal with the suffering of being accused of having an insincere conversion.

Now, however, I can at least put it perspective.  When I was in the Novus Ordo, for around 30 years before finding traditional Catholicism, I never came across anyone questioning my conversion.  There was something much worse.  I often encountered people who thought that being a convert from Judaism made me some sort of special, extra holy Catholic, because I was the same religion as Our Lord and the Apostles.  This was a wrong idea based on a worse assumption.  E. Michael Jones says that it is a form of judaizing and I think he is right.  I can see how soul-destroying it would have been if I had accepted it.  Fortunately, I have too many obvious faults to be convinced that I am extra holy, so I never really bought into it.

We are far better off being falsely accused of being Jєωs by people who have a true understanding of what Judaism is than being falsely praised for being "Jєωιѕн Catholics" by people with a false understanding of what Judaism is.  As trads, we learn the truth that is obscured by the Novus Ordo.  тαℓмυdic Judaism was not the religion of Our Lord and the Apostles.  It is a false, man-made religion and there is not the slightest reason to be proud of having been born into it.  We should only be thankful to have been freed from it.

It is true that I don't "go after Croix".  This is because I kind of like him and tend to sympathize with many of his views.  I can relate to his passion against feminism, for example.  I am not about to dislike him simply because he is mean to you.  These sorts of inter-personal tensions almost always are two-sided.

You seemed especially upset by whatever it was that Croix said to you in this thread so I made an exception to my general practice and made some comments to support you.  You have not said a single word of thanks or appreciation for it.  You have only complained and accused me of being a hypocrite.  So, in the future, I have yet another reason to say nothing if people accuse you of not being Catholic.
Title: Re: Various Croix Accounts
Post by: 2Vermont on June 16, 2020, 11:51:03 AM
I don't have a problem with much that you have written in this latest post.  However you are wrong to say that I wasn't appreciative of the support you gave me.  The only problem with it is it required my saying something to you first.  Get it?  See, I think you do.  But maybe you should go back and re-read all of my posts.  

While you're at it, you might take a good hard look at your accusations against Quo, especially about being dishonest.  I noticed you didn't comment on that part of my most recent post at all. Maybe you can come up with some sort of defense for that as well.  

If you don't want to be called a hypocrite, then you *are* going to have to pipe up when *anyone* calls another a heretic, a crypto Jєω, a schismatic, etc. if they haven't made statements that imply that. No cherry picking to suit *your* needs.  

I am totally fine with your not coming to my support n the future.  Like I said, the only reason why I was looking for it was because the silence was deafening given your overwhelming support of Croix and attack on Quo.
Title: Re: Various Croix Accounts
Post by: Jaynek on June 16, 2020, 12:40:29 PM
I don't have a problem with much that you have written in this latest post.  However you are wrong to say that I wasn't appreciative of the support you gave me.  The only problem with it is it required my saying something to you first.  Get it?  See, I think you do.  But maybe you should go back and re-read all of my posts.  

While you're at it, you might take a good hard look at your accusations against Quo, especially about being dishonest.  I noticed you didn't comment on that part of my most recent post at all. Maybe you can come up with some sort of defense for that as well.  

If you don't want to be called a hypocrite, then you *are* going to have to pipe up when *anyone* calls another a heretic, a crypto Jєω, a schismatic, etc. if they haven't made statements that imply that. No cherry picking to suit *your* needs.  

I am totally fine with your not coming to my support n the future.  Like I said, the only reason why I was looking for it was because the silence was deafening given your overwhelming support of Croix and attack on Quo.
Since I have a clear conscience that I am not being a hypocrite, I don't care whether you call me one or not.  You might have noticed that I also did not say anything in support of Croix until Matto said something first.  I thought he was making a good point so I expressed my agreement with him.  I do not go crusading through the forum looking for people to call out for inappropriately calling other people non-Catholics.  Nor do I intend to do this in the future.  I pretty consistently down-vote people that I notice doing it and usually I consider that sufficient.

I didn't comment about Quo because that is a total non-issue.  I was not attacking him and there was nothing personal in anything that I said about him.  I have no animosity toward him and I have nothing further to say about him.  He has me on ignore and I do not want to say things about him that he will not see.

I will say, however, that I probably would have written only one post in agreement with Matto if Quo had not argued with me about it.  The only reason that it seemed so "overwhelming" was that I was caught up in an argument.  Anyone who has observed my posting habits knows that I am like this no matter what the subject is.  

Now that I think of it, I realize that I am doing this right now.  There is no good reason for me to continue to argue with you about this.  It is not worth the time I am spending on it.
Title: Re: Various Croix Accounts
Post by: La firma Germoglio on June 16, 2020, 01:57:54 PM
 

 

2Vermont, for whatever it's worth, I don't think Croix thinks you're not a real convert. He doesn't really think you're a crypto. He also doesn't think you're low IQ. I think he was only trying to upset you. Initially, years back, he might've thought you weren't a sincere convert but I think he realized, even some time ago, that you're a real convert to the Faith. I think his only real gripe against you is your belief in BOD and, years ago, you seemed to be badgering Cantarella for a period of time over some issues. Also, Croix probably doesn't appreciate the fact that you and a few other members incorrectly accuse him of making "racist" or "misogynist" comments/posts in the anonymous section. When you and Croix made your dislike for each other known, it sort of metastasized into personal insults. So Croix just did what he did to hurt your feelings, but he really doesn't think you're a crypto. Not that you care what he thinks anyway. You shouldn't. Anyway, if he were here, now, I'm sure he would apologize to you, even in the recent wake of him lashing out at you a few days ago. Peace to you.

Jaynek, good comments by you.
Title: Re: Various Croix Accounts
Post by: 2Vermont on June 17, 2020, 06:26:27 AM
 

2Vermont, for whatever it's worth, I don't think Croix thinks you're not a real convert. He doesn't really think you're a crypto. He also doesn't think you're low IQ. I think he was only trying to upset you. Initially, years back, he might've thought you weren't a sincere convert but I think he realized, even some time ago, that you're a real convert to the Faith. I think his only real gripe against you is your belief in BOD and, years ago, you seemed to be badgering Cantarella for a period of time over some issues. Also, Croix probably doesn't appreciate the fact that you and a few other members incorrectly accuse him of making "racist" or "misogynist" comments/posts in the anonymous section. When you and Croix made your dislike for each other known, it sort of metastasized into personal insults. So Croix just did what he did to hurt your feelings, but he really doesn't think you're a crypto. Not that you care what he thinks anyway. You shouldn't. Anyway, if he were here, now, I'm sure he would apologize to you, even in the recent wake of him lashing out at you a few days ago. Peace to you.

Jaynek, good comments by you.
Well, if this is Croix, which I suspect, I would accept your apology if you made it known that it was you.  I would also expect to see an end to the indiscriminate down-thumbing (obviously if it is based on my content go for it).

As for BOD, I have revisited that and feel differently due to a thread posted awhile back that you were a part of under one of your many monikers. I would link it here, but I think it would take awhile to find it. Ladislaus was in it, so maybe he recalls.

Yes, Cantarella and I had a lot of arguments because at the time she was a rabid anti-sede.  Our relationship was much like the relationship between Meg and I.  Last time she was here, she had changed her position to the Cassiciacuм Thesis recognizing that she was wrong.  We have been very cordial and have shared PM's, and I even started a thread not too long ago asking if anyone had heard from her.

As for the accusation that I accused Croix of being racist or misogynist, I don't believe I ever did such a thing.  I don't typically accuse anyone of those things.
 
Well, if your purpose was to upset me, you did a fine job of it.  I don't typically let anonymous posters get to me that way, but it was a build up of years of the Jєω comments from you (and there are others out there, but they don't post nearly as much as you do).
Title: Re: Various Croix Accounts
Post by: 2Vermont on June 17, 2020, 06:29:41 AM
Since I have a clear conscience that I am not being a hypocrite, I don't care whether you call me one or not.  You might have noticed that I also did not say anything in support of Croix until Matto said something first.  I thought he was making a good point so I expressed my agreement with him.  I do not go crusading through the forum looking for people to call out for inappropriately calling other people non-Catholics.  Nor do I intend to do this in the future.  I pretty consistently down-vote people that I notice doing it and usually I consider that sufficient.

I didn't comment about Quo because that is a total non-issue.  I was not attacking him and there was nothing personal in anything that I said about him.  I have no animosity toward him and I have nothing further to say about him.  He has me on ignore and I do not want to say things about him that he will not see.

I will say, however, that I probably would have written only one post in agreement with Matto if Quo had not argued with me about it.  The only reason that it seemed so "overwhelming" was that I was caught up in an argument.  Anyone who has observed my posting habits knows that I am like this no matter what the subject is.  

Now that I think of it, I realize that I am doing this right now.  There is no good reason for me to continue to argue with you about this.  It is not worth the time I am spending on it.
I will apologize for calling you a hypocrite.  I do hope to see you make similar points when others call others heretics.  As for Quo, you owe him an apology for calling him dishonest...because, yes, that is a personal attack.  He will see your posts when others quote them.
Title: Re: Various Croix Accounts
Post by: Jaynek on June 17, 2020, 09:39:15 AM

never mind
Title: Re: Various Croix Accounts
Post by: Quo vadis Domine on June 17, 2020, 11:56:23 AM
Well, if this is Croix, which I suspect, I would accept your apology if you made it known that it was you.  I would also expect to see an end to the indiscriminate down-thumbing (obviously if it is based on my content go for it).

As for BOD, I have revisited that and feel differently due to a thread posted awhile back that you were a part of under one of your many monikers. I would link it here, but I think it would take awhile to find it. Ladislaus was in it, so maybe he recalls.

Yes, Cantarella and I had a lot of arguments because at the time she was a rabid anti-sede.  Our relationship was much like the relationship between Meg and I.  Last time she was here, she had changed her position to the Cassiciacuм Thesis recognizing that she was wrong.  We have been very cordial and have shared PM's, and I even started a thread not too long ago asking if anyone had heard from her.

As for the accusation that I accused Croix of being racist or misogynist, I don't believe I ever did such a thing.  I don't typically accuse anyone of those things.
  
Well, if your purpose was to upset me, you did a fine job of it.  I don't typically let anonymous posters get to me that way, but it was a build up of years of the Jєω comments from you (and there are others out there, but they don't post nearly as much as you do).
Good post. I too believe that this poster is Croix. For me Croix doesn’t need to apologize as I have already forgiven him. If he is a real Catholic he does need to make reparation for all of the downvotes he has given us. He needs to use his time to give us all corrective upvotes. This would show good faith on his part. As for Jaynek, it’s water under the bridge, I forgive her, she doesn’t need to apologize.
Title: Re: Various Croix Accounts
Post by: La firma Germoglio on June 17, 2020, 01:19:25 PM
For me Croix doesn’t need to apologize as I have already forgiven him.  This would show good faith on his part. As for Jaynek, it’s water under the bridge, I forgive her, she doesn’t need to apologize.

No apology was rendered to you, and none is required. It was only rendered to 2Vermont. You stated recently that you might leave this forum. Yes, you should leave. I can only think of one person who might miss you. Nobody else will miss you.

If he is a real Catholic he does need to make reparation for all of the downvotes he has given us. He needs to use his time to give us all corrective upvotes.

LOL !!! By your own measure of "a real Catholic", you better start upvoting all of Croix's posts/comments to equal the countless downvotes that you initiated against him. He only responded in kind to your actions against him. Your actions are effeminate and you have a weird fixation with him, only to be equaled by Ladislaus.
Title: Re: Various Croix Accounts
Post by: Ladislaus on June 17, 2020, 01:23:10 PM
No apology was rendered to you, and none is required. It was only rendered to 2Vermont. You stated recently that you might leave this forum. Yes, you should leave. I can only think of one person who might miss you. Nobody else will miss you.

LOL !!! By your own measure of "a real Catholic", you better start upvoting all of Croix's posts/comments to equal the countless downvotes that you initiated against him. He only responded in kind to your actions against him. Your actions are effeminate and you have a weird fixation with him, only to be equaled by Ladislaus.

Yeah, you just confirmed that you're Croix.

You want to talk about effeminate?  Take your punishment like a man and have some self-respect.  When the forum owner bans you, you need to respect it and move on.  I was banned by Matthew for the better part of a year a while ago, and I never thought to sneak back on the forum.  I occasionally read it without being logged in and I e-mailed Matthew at some point (about an unrelated issue) and he let me in and couldn't quite remember why he had banned me in the first place.
Title: Re: Various Croix Accounts
Post by: La firma Germoglio on June 17, 2020, 01:27:08 PM
Yeah, you just confirmed that you're Croix.

You want to talk about effeminate?  Take your punishment like a man and have some self-respect.  When the forum owner bans you, you need to respect it and move on.  I was banned by Matthew for the better part of a year a while ago, and I never thought to sneak back on the forum.  I occasionally read it without being logged in and I e-mailed Matthew at some point (about an unrelated issue) and he let me in and couldn't quite remember why he had banned me in the first place.

You obviously don't respect yourself, so you're the last person to be advising another man to have self-respect. I don't think your wife respects you either, and you sense it.
Title: Re: Various Croix Accounts
Post by: Ladislaus on June 17, 2020, 01:52:31 PM
You obviously don't respect yourself, so you're the last person to be advising another man to have self-respect. I don't think your wife respects you either, and you sense it.

Well, Croix, I have enough self-respect not to pretend I'm a Jєωιѕн woman on CathInfo.
Title: Re: Various Croix Accounts
Post by: jvk on June 17, 2020, 02:08:46 PM
 :laugh2:
Title: Re: Various Croix Accounts
Post by: La firma Germoglio on June 17, 2020, 03:00:17 PM
Well, Croix, I have enough self-respect not to pretend I'm a Jєωιѕн woman on CathInfo.

Lame response. It was a Jєωιѕн Karen MEME. Every honest person and persons of average intelligence know it was a meme and not meant to be taken literal or sincere.

Btw, I still don't think your wife respects you because I think she sees you lacking self-esteem, security with self, and self-respect.
Title: Re: Various Croix Accounts
Post by: 2Vermont on June 17, 2020, 04:45:33 PM
So, Croix, still down-voting me?
Title: Re: Various Croix Accounts
Post by: Quo vadis Domine on June 17, 2020, 06:40:46 PM
So, Croix, still down-voting me?
Yes, he gave me a bunch again, whatever, I’m over it, it really doesn’t matter anyway. I feel sorry for the poor thing, he projects all of his faults and issues on others like all individuals with similar traits. He’s a compulsive liar as evidenced multiple times in this thread alone and as I’ve said earlier, I don’t think he’s a Catholic, I think he’s a troll.
Title: Re: Various Croix Accounts
Post by: Quo vadis Domine on June 17, 2020, 06:43:07 PM
Lame response. It was a Jєωιѕн Karen MEME. Every honest person and persons of average intelligence know it was a meme and not meant to be taken literal or sincere.

Btw, I still don't think your wife respects you because I think she sees you lacking self-esteem, security with self, and self-respect.
Seriously man, do you have any self respect? I’m embarrassed for you.
Title: Re: Various Croix Accounts
Post by: Struthio on June 17, 2020, 07:31:22 PM
The voting function makes this forum more Chinese. It's a foretaste of the reality of UN happytalism. A few years from now, Quo Vadis, your paycheck will be half, if you keep complaining about anonymous downvotes instead of contributing useful content.

:laugh1:

What's the whole fuss about up- and downvotes? It's the NWO-method to nudge and drill people. Stop looking at those numbers.

Title: Re: Various Croix Accounts
Post by: Quo vadis Domine on June 17, 2020, 07:39:13 PM
The voting function makes this forum more Chinese. It's a foretaste of the reality of UN happytalism. A few years from now, Quo Vadis, your paycheck will be half, if you keep complaining about anonymous downvotes instead of contributing useful content.

:laugh1:

What's the whole fuss about up- and downvotes? It's the NWO-method to nudge and drill people. Stop looking at those numbers.
Good advice, thank you. 
Title: Re: Various Croix Accounts
Post by: Nadir on June 17, 2020, 09:47:00 PM
The voting function makes this forum more Chinese. It's a foretaste of the reality of UN happytalism. A few years from now, Quo Vadis, your paycheck will be half, if you keep complaining about anonymous downvotes instead of contributing useful content.

:laugh1:

What's the whole fuss about up- and downvotes? It's the NWO-method to nudge and drill people. Stop looking at those numbers.

Yeah! And you can only guess where a down-thumb, or an up-thumb originates. Folk should quit whingeing about thumbs.

Consider Poche's example.   :jester:

Title: Re: Various Croix Accounts
Post by: Struthio on June 17, 2020, 09:55:19 PM
I ask Chinese folks (not their authorities) for forgiveness. I didn't really want to blame them. I just said Chinese, because the Russians can't be blamed for everything, and everybody thinks that social-media-tyranny is Chinese. Truth probably is, it was invented in the U.S. by Jєωs just like POTUS-governing via Twitter is an USraeli invention. And it's not only in China, it's everywhere, even on CathInfo.
Title: Re: Various Croix Accounts
Post by: 2Vermont on June 18, 2020, 06:29:11 AM
Yeah! And you can only guess where a down-thumb, or an up-thumb originates. Folk should quit whingeing about thumbs.

Consider Poche's example.   :jester:
Says the woman with very little downthumbs! 
 
I am totally fine with getting downthumbed based on content.  What I do take issue with is someone indiscriminately downthumbing (oftentimes going to older posts to do so) just because they want to rack up a downvote tally. And yes, you can know who it is especially when there is a history and you literally watch your downvote skyrocket overnight or even within an hour or two.  

How about you all stop whining about those of us who take issue with this?  ;)
Title: Re: Various Croix Accounts
Post by: La firma Germoglio on June 18, 2020, 08:30:30 AM
So, Croix, still down-voting me?

No, 2Vermont. It's not from me if that's what you're asking. I don't even have enough comments here to cast any votes. When I offered peace to you, I really mean it. I'm not holding a grudge against you.
Title: Re: Various Croix Accounts
Post by: La firma Germoglio on June 18, 2020, 08:35:42 AM
Seriously man, do you have any self respect? I’m embarrassed for you.

Says the guy who is really embarrassed for himself after he was called out for projecting his closeted perversions and fixation on grotesque trannies. Says the guy who puts so much value on internet reputations of essentially anonymous people.

Also, quote any lie that you claim I made.
Title: Re: Various Croix Accounts
Post by: 2Vermont on June 18, 2020, 09:04:21 AM
No, 2Vermont. It's not from me if that's what you're asking. I don't even have enough comments here to cast any votes. When I offered peace to you, I really mean it. I'm not holding a grudge against you.
Peace to you Croix.  Thank you for your sincerity.  
Title: Re: Various Croix Accounts
Post by: Jaynek on June 18, 2020, 02:07:28 PM
I am totally fine with getting downthumbed based on content.  What I do take issue with is someone indiscriminately downthumbing (oftentimes going to older posts to do so) just because they want to rack up a downvote tally. And yes, you can know who it is especially when there is a history and you literally watch your downvote skyrocket overnight or even within an hour or two.  

I was done with this thread but I just realized something.  This is my opportunity to transition from a three digit number of down-votes to four digit, while talking about down votes.

Some people have many downthumbs because their content is typically unacceptable and offensive to trads in general.  Poche is an example of this.  Another way to receive many downthumbs is to be frequently involved in forum controversies.  Another way to have large numbers is to be argumentative and/or make enemies who demonstrate hostility this way.

I'm pretty sure that Matthew, if he has occasion to consider anyone's reputation score, has a pretty good sense of its significance in that particular case.  I expect that most members who pay attention to the scores also understand this.  It is somewhat frustrating to have a score that one feels is not a fair reflection of the quality of one's posts, but it is unlikely that there would be any serous repercussions from this. 

And since I'm posting in this thread anyhow, I might as well clear up a misunderstanding.  I did not say that Quo is dishonest.  In response to him calling Croix a liar, my exact words were: "There is more reason to question your honesty than his." This is not an attack on Quo, but a way to say that I do not see any reason to question Croix's honesty.   For the record, I do not seriously question Quo's honesty either.  

Nevertheless, many people in this thread (and elsewhere on the forum) regularly make harsh and hurtful personal insults with little regard to how much real evidence exists in support.  People question a man's masculinity, speculate about marriage problems, claim mental illness or lack of Catholic faith, etc.  People attack likely sensitive and vulnerable issues in order to hurt each other, not because these are truths that need to be said.  These comments are mainly a failure in charity, but they fall short of the ideal of honesty too.  They are driven by anger rather than truth.

If we are going to consider this sort of thing as a lack of honesty, then Quo and Croix and a large number of CI members could be called dishonest.  But, in terms of the typical usage of the word (speaking of deliberate deception) I would not call them dishonest.
Title: Re: Various Croix Accounts
Post by: 2Vermont on June 18, 2020, 03:18:13 PM
And since I'm posting in this thread anyhow, I might as well clear up a misunderstanding.  I did not say that Quo is dishonest.  In response to him calling Croix a liar, my exact words were: "There is more reason to question your honesty than his." This is not an attack on Quo, but a way to say that I do not see any reason to question Croix's honesty.   For the record, I do not seriously question Quo's honesty either.  

Really?  There are a number of your posts to Quo in this thread that show you clearly questioned his honesty.  Would this post be an example of  .....  irony? 
 
Jayne, you should have stuck with quitting while you were ahead.
Title: Re: Various Croix Accounts
Post by: Ladislaus on June 18, 2020, 07:31:48 PM
I was done with this thread but I just realized something.  This is my opportunity to transition from a three digit number of down-votes to four digit, while talking about down votes.

I was tempted to downvote you just to get you your 1000, but I resisted the urge.  :laugh1:  I doubt any posters have more raw downvotes than I do (currently at 5953).
Title: Re: Various Croix Accounts
Post by: Jaynek on April 11, 2021, 07:46:45 AM
An anonymous poster on another thread https://www.cathinfo.com/anonymous-posts-allowed/project-artichoke-is-croix/msg741220/#msg741220 (https://www.cathinfo.com/anonymous-posts-allowed/project-artichoke-is-croix/msg741220/#msg741220) alluded to this thread.  Since I was pointing out evidence of Croix holding heretical views, the anonymous poster suggested that I owe Quo an apology.  While not inclined to take suggestions from nameless posters, I did reread this thread.  I concluded that I do not owe Quo an apology.  I stand by my objections to making baseless accusations of heresy.  I do not think these retroactively become acceptable if evidence turns up later.
Title: Re: Various Croix Accounts
Post by: 2Vermont on April 11, 2021, 08:55:50 AM
Given I was heavily involved in this old thread, I just want to be clear that I was not the anonymous poster who "alluded to it" in the newer anonymous Croix thread.  Also, Croix apologized to me for his accusations towards me back then, and I have accepted his apology.