Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => Computers, Technology, Websites => Topic started by: ascanio1 on October 31, 2019, 05:16:14 AM
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Hello,
More mundane questions (*) were not answered here and I was wondering if anyone could, please, point me to other Forums, for Traditional Catholics, where members are less focused on sophisms, learned, eridite, scholarly, important and critical aspects of our faith and more mundane matters as books, studies, passtimes, etc.
Thank you in advance,
Tommaso
(*) differences between missals, bibles, children's books, etc.
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Catholic Answers is a useless site for theology, and it's NO, but probably good for stuff like this.
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Catholic Answers is a useless site for theology, and it's NO, but probably good for stuff like this.
Thank you forlon, but I seek only orthodox (*) websites as I seek advise with books, videos, etc, that I would like to be aligned with the correct Church.
(*) as in correct Catholic
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Catholic Answers is a useless site for theology, and it's NO, but probably good for stuff like this.
Catholic Answers is quick to ban anyone who questions Francis as to his heterodoxy.
Most likely, many here who joined CA are now banned from that site.
Cath Info has quite a selection of forums here, including humor, for those who tire of the intellectual and theological discussions.
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Catholic Answers is quick to ban anyone who questions Francis as to his heterodoxy.
Most likely, many here who joined CA are now banned from that site.
Cath Info has quite a selection of forums here, including humor, for those who tire of the intellectual and theological discussions.
Thank you Maria Regina, I appreciate this forum immensely and members, with varying degrees of understanding and varying perspectives, are offering me indispensable help with my struggles on my way back to Catholicism, after years of culpable intellectual indolence.
However, this community seems more interested in more important matters and, understandably, has less time for mundane questions. I feel awkward to re-post some questions here so I was hoping to find answers alsewhere.
I would google and research by myself but I am afraic that I might find communities that would lead me astray, again, advising me with a modernist perspective as I am still too incompetent to discern Catholics from modernists...
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I understand your concerns, Tommaso, about the practical, down to earth issues. For example when looking to find recommendations for children's books you could use the Search for homeschooling, and you may find your needs answered there. E.G. https://www.cathinfo.com/catholic-living-in-the-modern-world/homeschooling-recommended-reading-list/msg666056/#msg666056 (https://www.cathinfo.com/catholic-living-in-the-modern-world/homeschooling-recommended-reading-list/msg666056/#msg666056)
The WOMEN'S section, which will not be available to you as a man, also has many practical real life problems discussed. Would it be feasible to encourage your wife to sign up and she could be part of those discussions? Just a thought!
I couldn't recommend any other forum.
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I understand your concerns, Tommaso, about the practical, down to earth issues. For example when looking to find recommendations for children's books you could use the Search for homeschooling, and you may find your needs answered there. E.G. https://www.cathinfo.com/catholic-living-in-the-modern-world/homeschooling-recommended-reading-list/msg666056/#msg666056 (https://www.cathinfo.com/catholic-living-in-the-modern-world/homeschooling-recommended-reading-list/msg666056/#msg666056)
The WOMEN'S section, which will not be available to you as a man, also has many practical real life problems discussed. Would it be feasible to encourage your wife to sign up and she could be part of those discussions? Just a thought!
I couldn't recommend any other forum.
Thank you for the homeschooling thread that I appreciated. My wife is Orthodox and would not sign up to this community (it is a long story...).
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For Traditional Catholics there is really only this place and SuscipeDomine.com
Fisheaters.com is for conservative Catholics who don't mind queers and transsɛҳuąƖs jumping into the forums and disturbing the peace.
Other than that there are no forums for genuine Trads that I know of in the English Language.
I sometimes look at Reddit but I almost never post there.
Dr. Taylor Marshall runs a good YouTube site and he is becoming noticeably more of a hard core traditionalist as the weeks pass. I like listening to his stuff.
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I wish I could have the quality and God-centered aspect of hard-core Trads, with the popularity, fun, and quantity of watered down Protestants and Novus Ordo Catholics.
Or how about a single guy wishing for a wife who is smart, beautiful (but doesn't know it -- she's not stuck up at all), has a perfect body, is a devout Catholic and a virgin. Oh, and she likes all kinds of "guy stuff": computers, guy-friendly movies, programming, electronics, cars, racing, camping/outdoors, fishing/hunting, guns, survivalism, beer brewing, etc. And she insists on doing all the housework.
My point?
You might as well wish for rainbow unicorns. They don't exist.
Or how about: I wish I had the top 5 smartest guys, only multiplied by 1000, so I had 5,000 geniuses instead! Imagine what I could do with a company like that!
The problem: again, they don't exist. The problem with an elite (and yes, we are an elite here -- an elite of those who love God and are faithful to Catholic Tradition. We are the remnant -- all by the grace of God, of course) is that they are inherently small in number.
If you want more people, you step down, and you end up with the crowd at Catholic Answers, etc.
Some things just don't exist.
Long story short, there ARE some good Trad Catholics not on CathInfo, but they aren't on any other forum. They are offline or aloof from forums.
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Seriously, I run into this problem all the time on a daily basis.
For example: how to get more people to attend my Resistance affiliated chapel?
Answer: The people I'm seeking don't exist. Everyone who doesn't come here for Mass is EITHER
A) non-Catholic
B) non-Trad
C) doesn't live close enough to attend
or
D) doesn't really care about Tradition; any "Latin Mass-esque" ceremony will do. But only for 1 hour on Sunday -- the rest of the week is for REAL, WORLDLY stuff. Can't do a bunch of driving either. That takes away from fun-time.
None of those groups can be added to the small remnant/elite group of Catholics who attend our chapel.
I'm not saying we're not missing ANYONE, but we're not "missing" all that many.
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Thank you for the homeschooling thread that I appreciated. My wife is Orthodox and would not sign up to this community (it is a long story...).
I'd recommend the Dimonds' videos on Orthodoxy. They provide quite good refutations of the Orthodox position. Disclaimer: The Dimonds are sedevacantist but their videos refuting Orthodoxy are unrelated to that.
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Long story short, there ARE some good Trad Catholics not on CathInfo, but they aren't on any other forum. They are offline or aloof from forums.
What are the other forums at the current moment? I don't know how many there are now. I post on Suscipe Domine which I think is supposed to be an SSPX forum but there are a lot of Ecclesia Dei members and some sedes, but the moderator seems to be absent and I think the forum has been overrun by non-Catholics and doubters and people with unusual opinions that would be thought to be heretics by many. At least that is how it seemed to me. But I think there are some good folk there. I like dellery over there, he seems like an interesting guy and he does not support the resistance.
Cathinfo is so much against the world that it seems insane to most people even many people who consider themselves traditional Catholics. The talk about female dress and modesty and worldly entertainment is one thing. I think the talk about Jews scares people away. And the extreme takes on politics. So does the geocentrism and flat earth talk. And the support of the resistance. Some are scared away by the Feeneyism and the sedevacantism as well. But I think Cathinfo is the best Catholic forum I know of.
Does anyone know if Servus Spiritus Sancti is still alive and faithful? Sometimes I think that all the forums are monitored and controlled and many of the members are fake accounts and all of our posts are monitored and sometimes (((people who run things from behind the curtain))) threaten members who get too far out of line and threaten to get them fired from their jobs or sued or harmed in some other way unless they shut up. But then I think they wouldn't bother because we are so small a minority to be insignificant and because even many traditional Catholics are really only servants of the enemy who prefer a pretty liturgy. Not to say that I am not a servant of the enemy, or that Matthew is not a servant of the enemy.
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For Traditional Catholics there is really only this place and SuscipeDomine.com
Fisheaters.com is for conservative Catholics who don't mind queers and transsɛҳuąƖs jumping into the forums and disturbing the peace.
Other than that there are no forums for genuine Trads that I know of in the English Language.
I sometimes look at Reddit but I almost never post there.
Dr. Taylor Marshall runs a good YouTube site and he is becoming noticeably more of a hard core traditionalist as the weeks pass. I like listening to his stuff.
Thank you for your recommendations. I watched a video of this Dr Taylor and he seems knowledgeable. Interesting opinions.
Thank you also for the other recommendatioons. I looked at a few and liked them.
As for the queers and transɛҳuąƖs jumping into a Catholic forum ... well, I consider them to be a very minor disruption, if compared to (self professed) Catholic members of my child's school, Opus Dei, forum, attacking me for lauding Italy's High Court's rule against honosɛҳuąƖs adopting children and for adding that we should all pray for "individuals with inverted sɛҳuąƖ behaviour that they may find a cure". Not to mention a forum's administrator adding that I was "sinning with pride and using the Bible as a club against love..."
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I wish I could have the quality and God-centered aspect of hard-core Trads, with the popularity, fun, and quantity of watered down Protestants and Novus Ordo Catholics.
Or how about a single guy wishing for a wife who is smart, beautiful (but doesn't know it -- she's not stuck up at all), has a perfect body, is a devout Catholic and a virgin. Oh, and she likes all kinds of "guy stuff": computers, guy-friendly movies, programming, electronics, cars, racing, camping/outdoors, fishing/hunting, guns, survivalism, beer brewing, etc. And she insists on doing all the housework.
My point?
You might as well wish for rainbow unicorns. They don't exist.
Or how about: I wish I had the top 5 smartest guys, only multiplied by 1000, so I had 5,000 geniuses instead! Imagine what I could do with a company like that!
The problem: again, they don't exist. The problem with an elite (and yes, we are an elite here -- an elite of those who love God and are faithful to Catholic Tradition. We are the remnant -- all by the grace of God, of course) is that they are inherently small in number.
If you want more people, you step down, and you end up with the crowd at Catholic Answers, etc.
Some things just don't exist.
Long story short, there ARE some good Trad Catholics not on CathInfo, but they aren't on any other forum. They are offline or aloof from forums.
You are misinterpreting the motives behind this thread's request.I am not criticizing this forum but, rather, recognizing its value.
I post many generic questions on this forum and I understand that its members' time is limited therefore I choose to post only those concerns of importance or that require in depth knoledge and spare time on matters of lesser value.
I feel awkward if you interptreted my search for more mundane approaches as dissatisfaction with this community, because the opposite is true. I wish that I could express my gratitutde, tangibly, to all members (of all perspectives) who help me re-vert to Catholic religion from ... I don't know what to call it.
My challenges lie in (a) my inward struggle to overcome decades of convictions and (b) my outward struggle to provide cathcism to my daughter as the local SSPX priest cannot.
This forum is instrumental in the former (exactly because of its purity and scholarly approach that distances itself from mundanity) while I need to educate myself first to address the latter. Re-version to Catholicism (*), requires me to re-study the basics. And there is a lot to study. I therefore have hundreds of mundane questions that - rightly - cannot, and should not, be answered here.
Some concerns are very complex and are better addressed in their nuances with sofisticated replies, only possible by knowledgeable and scholarly proponenets. Other concerns are less complex and can be sufficiently well addressed by less qualified communities.
For example, I do not need a scholar to explain to me what is the difference between a St Joseph and other bibles. I do require a scholar to recommend me a good study Bible. Another example could be that I do not need this forum to explain how to attend 1962 liturgy while I cannot risk generic replies to questions pertaining doctrinal errors and differences between NO and 1962 liturgy.
Big guns for bigger, core conflicts and small peashooters for lesser, formal, conflicts.
I hope that this reply addresses yours and, please, do respond if you feel that more can be said concerning this matter as I am very receptive to advice and counsel in this difficult path that lays ahead of me.
(*) I use Catholicism and not "traditional" Catholicism as prefacing the word Catholicism with the word traditional, implies some form of non normality. Whlie Rome counts billion of Modern Catholics and true Catholics only count half a million, the latter are normal while the former are departures from the norm.
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What are the other forums at the current moment? I don't know how many there are now. I post on Suscipe Domine which I think is supposed to be an SSPX forum but there are a lot of Ecclesia Dei members and some sedes, but the moderator seems to be absent and I think the forum has been overrun by non-Catholics and doubters and people with unusual opinions that would be thought to be heretics by many. At least that is how it seemed to me. But I think there are some good folk there. I like dellery over there, he seems like an interesting guy and he does not support the resistance.
Cathinfo is so much against the world that it seems insane to most people even many people who consider themselves traditional Catholics. The talk about female dress and modesty and worldly entertainment is one thing. I think the talk about Jews scares people away. And the extreme takes on politics. So does the geocentrism and flat earth talk. And the support of the resistance. Some are scared away by the Feeneyism and the sedevacantism as well. But I think Cathinfo is the best Catholic forum I know of.
Does anyone know if Servus Spiritus Sancti is still alive and faithful? Sometimes I think that all the forums are monitored and controlled and many of the members are fake accounts and all of our posts are monitored and sometimes (((people who run things from behind the curtain))) threaten members who get too far out of line and threaten to get them fired from their jobs or sued or harmed in some other way unless they shut up. But then I think they wouldn't bother because we are so small a minority to be insignificant and because even many traditional Catholics are really only servants of the enemy who prefer a pretty liturgy. Not to say that I am not a servant of the enemy, or that Matthew is not a servant of the enemy.
Thank you for posting this information.
I am seeking spot catechism, only on selected items. For examples, questions as "what are the conditions for a plenary absolution?".
I don't think that the websites that you cite can cause harm to a Catholic, even if they are populated by non Catholics or lesser educated catholics. I imagine that these websites can still offer better answers than Wikipedia:
- Piously reading or listening to Sacred Scripture (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible) for at least half an hour.[14] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indulgence#cite_note-ReferenceA-14)
- Adoration (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eucharistic_adoration) of Jesus in the Eucharist (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eucharist) for at least half an hour.[14] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indulgence#cite_note-ReferenceA-14)
- The pious exercise of the Stations of the Cross (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stations_of_the_Cross).[14] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indulgence#cite_note-ReferenceA-14)
- Recitation of the Rosary (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosary) or the Akathist (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akathist) in a church or oratory, or in a family, a religious community, an association of the faithful and, in general, when several people come together for an honourable purpose.[14] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indulgence#cite_note-ReferenceA-14)
I do agree with you re Cathinfo flavours when addressing Jews, geocentrism and similar matters but I appreciate challenging perspectives as I hope that my intellect and heart will distinguish which are true and which are not.
I have very close Jєωιѕн friends and I cannot bring myself to believe that the Sun revolves around the Earth but this did not stop me from reading and investigating this community's stances on these topics. I did not come out convinced but I did come our more informed.
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I'd recommend the Dimonds' videos on Orthodoxy. They provide quite good refutations of the Orthodox position. Disclaimer: The Dimonds are sedevacantist but their videos refuting Orthodoxy are unrelated to that.
I could not find them on YouTube. Can you provide me with a link, please?
I am not trying to convert my wife as we exchanged promises: She would let me raise our children Catholic and I would never try to convert her. I am interested for my personal educatoin.
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Tommaso, You wish to raise your child a Catholic and your wife complies with your wish. You are greatly blessed.
But I was very disturbed to hear that you send your child to an Opus Dei school. There are many good-willed Opus Dei adherents, but they are vehemently opposed to tradition and absolutely supporters of Vatican 2 and newchurch. The higher echelons are wolves in sheeps' coats with a patina of devout Catholicity. They are a danger to the faith. Please check it out here on this site and wherever you are able.
May God bless and protect your family.
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There are many good-willed Opus Dei adherents, but they are vehemently opposed to tradition and absolutely supporters of Vatican 2 and newchurch.
Is this true? Are Opus Dei really opposed to tradition? I thought that they might be all for the Extraordinary Form said ad orientem by priests wearing cilices. It surprises me a little because they are supposed to be very devoted to their founder, Escriva and he asked for an indult for all of the Opus Dei priests to continue saying the Latin Mass and not the Novus Ordo, but Paul VI refused. He allowed Escriva himself to say the Old Mass, but the rest of the Opus Dei priests had to say the Novus Ordo. So I thought because of that that modern day Opus Dei priests might be for the Latin Mass. That and together with the image that they are an elite order of uber-Catholics above the normal laity which would also be supported by saying the Extraordinary Form in my mind.
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Matto, they are deceivers and many are deceived. You should take this to and OD thread or start a new one perhaps.
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I do agree with you re Cathinfo flavours when addressing Jews, geocentrism and similar matters but I appreciate challenging perspectives as I hope that my intellect and heart will distinguish which are true and which are not.
I have very close Jєωιѕн friends and I cannot bring myself to believe that the Sun revolves around the Earth but this did not stop me from reading and investigating this community's stances on these topics. I did not come out convinced but I did come our more informed.
I am a convert from Judaism so, as you may imagine, I often find the tone taken towards Jews rather disconcerting. Yet there really is something very wrong with the conciliar approach to Jews and Judaism. Most conciliar Catholics probably have heretical beliefs on the subject at this point. I suspect that some of the hostility that seems to exist here around that subject is a reaction to that wrongness. It is worth looking into with an open mind, but probably after you have dealt with your more pressing issues.
While I have not reached a point of adopting geocentrism, I do think it is important for Catholics to realize that the popular understanding of the events surrounding Galileo are wildly distorted. It was not a matter of the Church opposing science and reason, as it is so often portrayed. The Church has nothing to apologize for in her actions at that time.
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Some things just don't exist.
Long story short, there ARE some good Trad Catholics not on CathInfo, but they aren't on any other forum. They are offline or aloof from forums.
Well that's a load of self-serving tripe.
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Tommaso, You wish to raise your child a Catholic and your wife complies with your wish. You are greatly blessed.
But I was very disturbed to hear that you send your child to an Opus Dei school. There are many good-willed Opus Dei adherents, but they are vehemently opposed to tradition and absolutely supporters of Vatican 2 and newchurch. The higher echelons are wolves in sheeps' coats with a patina of devout Catholicity. They are a danger to the faith. Please check it out here on this site and wherever you are able.
May God bless and protect your family.
Nadir, you have no idea what a challenge it is!
The school is not helping me and, recently, I have been rebuked by an administrator (Opus Dei) on a school WhatsApp conversation group for suggesting that we pray for thos who have inverted sɛҳuąƖ preferences and hope that they may find a cure.
The Crucifix is not affixed in classes and, when I brought one, it was placed behind a cupboard.
My daughter is not allowed to say Grace before meals.
Girls have to wear pants (I add a skirt on top).
I could go on and on.
This, plus Italy's godless and leftists society and environment, have induced my wife and I to look for a better country where to move to. We are seriously considering Hungary, next year, although financial concerns must be resolved, first. In Hungary we could not find any Catholic schools. We found only non denominational Christian schools (Greater Grace International, in Budapest).
An American lady that attends FSSPX Mass in Naples, suggested that plain, non denominational, Christian school are better than bad Catholic ones. She suggested that we can build on Christian foundations by adding Catholic catechism, at home, correcting errors. We spoke to the principal and he illustrated the religious curricula: only bible, no denominations. So no Eucharist, no Marian teachings, etc., but also none of the protestant perspectives concerning salvation, etc..
We are partially convinced and, so, we are also contemplating founding, from zero, a Catholic, traditional, international, conservative school.
Something like this:
https://youtu.be/1uhatZANexc
or this
https://youtu.be/zauRHFGBuZA
and we are actively talking to banks, in Budapest, to finance the project. We are drawing a business plans based on my long time experience with preschool and primary school. I was a stake holder and start-up operator in my family of origin's enterprise: Asili Matarazzo http://www.littlestarinternationalschool.com/ . After we opened five schools I left the group because the major stakeholder decided to veer towards globalism.
This is why I asked on this forum if anyone knew of traditonal Catholics in Hungary.
I am also actively trying to speak to the FSSPX but, so far, my local FSSPX parish priest is not impressed with my project and did not escalate it. I am now talking to the ICK who seem more interested.
Thank you for your warnings. I found out the hard way, by myself.
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Is this true? Are Opus Dei really opposed to tradition? I thought that they might be all for the Extraordinary Form said ad orientem by priests wearing cilices. It surprises me a little because they are supposed to be very devoted to their founder, Escriva and he asked for an indult for all of the Opus Dei priests to continue saying the Latin Mass and not the Novus Ordo, but Paul VI refused. He allowed Escriva himself to say the Old Mass, but the rest of the Opus Dei priests had to say the Novus Ordo. So I thought because of that that modern day Opus Dei priests might be for the Latin Mass. That and together with the image that they are an elite order of uber-Catholics above the normal laity which would also be supported by saying the Extraordinary Form in my mind.
Matto, read my reply to Nadir...
The underlying theme is: we must not offend non Catholics.
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I am a convert from Judaism so, as you may imagine, I often find the tone taken towards Jews rather disconcerting. Yet there really is something very wrong with the conciliar approach to Jews and Judaism. Most conciliar Catholics probably have heretical beliefs on the subject at this point. I suspect that some of the hostility that seems to exist here around that subject is a reaction to that wrongness. It is worth looking into with an open mind, but probably after you have dealt with your more pressing issues.
While I have not reached a point of adopting geocentrism, I do think it is important for Catholics to realize that the popular understanding of the events surrounding Galileo are wildly distorted. It was not a matter of the Church opposing science and reason, as it is so often portrayed. The Church has nothing to apologize for in her actions at that time.
Jaynek, I am extreemely interested in both subjects: our relationship with jews and the Church's stance regarding Galileo. I encourage my Jєωιѕн friends to "perfect" themselvs and a few have attended Mass with me and questioned me later on in long conversations.
I would welcome a new thread about both topics but, having read what tones sorround these conversations, I fear that your voice could be overwhelmed (not always politely) in this community.
In all honesty, this is the only criticism that I can move to this community: the tones of some replies do not incite or generate more interest... to the contrary aggressive tones may put off most readers. I propose that hostile and hateful tones do not make an argument more convicing but, in fact, are counterproductive to the cause being espoused. Those who attacks the character of the interlocutor instead of the idea, generally, are the ones who's ideas cannot stand up by themselves.
Search for my very first thread and look at what reply I received...
Mind you, I am 100% in favour of free speech. So much so that i would not censor any language whatsoever, not even blasphemy, as God will judge and punish.
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I am a convert from Judaism so, as you may imagine, I often find the tone taken towards Jews rather disconcerting. Yet there really is something very wrong with the conciliar approach to Jews and Judaism. Most conciliar Catholics probably have heretical beliefs on the subject at this point. I suspect that some of the hostility that seems to exist here around that subject is a reaction to that wrongness. It is worth looking into with an open mind, but probably after you have dealt with your more pressing issues. …
Let's first translate that into theologically correct Catholic language:
"I am a convert from тαℓмυdic Judaism so, as you may imagine, I often find the tone taken towards Jews 'the ѕуηαgσgυє of Satan, those who say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie' rather disconcerting. Yet there really is something very wrong with the conciliar approach to Jews 'the ѕуηαgσgυє of Satan, those who say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie' and Judaism.…"
Jaynek, you were not a Jew until you entered the Church. You weren't a Jew before your conversion, but are a Jew now. Numerous proof texts here: http://judaism.is/covenants.html (http://judaism.is/covenants.html)
Disconcerting? Well, there is an ongoing two millennial war between the Jews and the "Jews." The "tone" that disconcerts you is the the clear statement of indisputable facts. People of this age have become too accustomed to circuмlocutions, obliquities, smarmy euphemisms, and outright lies.
Your convert status has been evident before this announcement. To give you credit due, your attachment to tribal pride is detectable, but considerably less than the average convert from тαℓмυdic Judaism. Compare your traditionalism with the subversion by the Marranos of the apostate so-called "Hebrew-Catholics." You are way ahead. Don't be disconcerted by that. :-)
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Let's first translate that into theologically correct Catholic language:
"I am a convert from тαℓмυdic Judaism so, as you may imagine, I often find the tone taken towards Jews 'the ѕуηαgσgυє of Satan, those who say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie' rather disconcerting. Yet there really is something very wrong with the conciliar approach to Jews 'the ѕуηαgσgυє of Satan, those who say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie' and Judaism.…"
Jaynek, you were not a Jew until you entered the Church. You weren't a Jew before your conversion, but are a Jew now. Numerous proof texts here: http://judaism.is/covenants.html (http://judaism.is/covenants.html)
Disconcerting? Well, there is an ongoing two millennial war between the Jews and the "Jews." The "tone" that disconcerts you is the the clear statement of indisputable facts. People of this age have become too accustomed to circuмlocutions, obliquities, smarmy euphemisms, and outright lies.
Your convert status has been evident before this announcement. To give you credit due, your attachment to tribal pride is detectable, but considerably less than the average convert from тαℓмυdic Judaism. Compare your traditionalism with the subversion by the Marranos of the apostate so-called "Hebrew-Catholics." You are way ahead. Don't be disconcerted by that. :-)
Honestly... I don't understand half of what you wrote.
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We are partially convinced and, so, we are also contemplating founding, from zero, a Catholic, traditional, international, conservative school.
Something like this:
https://youtu.be/1uhatZANexc
or this
https://youtu.be/zauRHFGBuZA
and we are actively talking to banks, in Budapest, to finance the project. We are drawing a business plans based on my long time experience with preschool and primary school. I was a stake holder and start-up operator in my family of origin's enterprise: Asili Matarazzo http://www.littlestarinternationalschool.com/ . After we opened five schools I left the group because the major stakeholder decided to veer towards globalism.
This is why I asked on this forum if anyone knew of traditonal Catholics in Hungary.
I am also actively trying to speak to the FSSPX but, so far, my local FSSPX parish priest is not impressed with my project and did not escalate it. I am now talking to the ICK who seem more interested.
Thank you for your warnings. I found out the hard way, by myself.
Oh Boy! You do go in for things in a big way!
It would be a good thing to do, and obviously you have the experience and expertise. But why are you not homeschooling?
Opus Dei is a pit of snakes, as well as being anti-Tradition and actively newchurch. They are the ultimate in ecuмenism. It does not matter what religion you are; if you have money you are in.
Did you ever hear of an Opus Dei Institution with a Catholic name. No St Patricks or St Ursulas or Lourdes College for them. That might identify them as Catholic to the wealthy folk they wish to attract. For the insiders and the naive, there is a pretence of conservative Catholic, but they are basically тαℓмυdists and Marranos. Not surprising that they hid the Crucifix.
http://www.opus-info.org/index.php?title=List_of_Opus_Dei-affiliated_foundations#International (http://www.opus-info.org/index.php?title=List_of_Opus_Dei-affiliated_foundations#International)
I am relieved that your eyes have been opened
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Honestly... I don't understand half of what you wrote.
Did you go to the provided link?
http://judaism.is/covenants.html (http://judaism.is/covenants.html)
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Honestly... I don't understand half of what you wrote.
Boils down to this: Modern "Jews" aren't actually Jews at all, they are the ѕуηαgσgυє of Satan. What he means by "you weren't a Jew until you entered the Church" is that the Church is the new Israel, and Catholicism is the continuation of the faith of the Hebrew fathers. So we're the "real Jews" in a sense.
Of course that's all semantics that makes for very confusing discussion, so I(and 99% of people, even anti-Zionists) will refer to the ѕуηαgσgυє of Satan as the Jews.
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Jaynek, I am extreemely interested in both subjects: our relationship with jews and the Church's stance regarding Galileo. I encourage my Jєωιѕн friends to "perfect" themselvs and a few have attended Mass with me and questioned me later on in long conversations.
I would welcome a new thread about both topics but, having read what tones sorround these conversations, I fear that your voice could be overwhelmed (not always politely) in this community.
If you would like to see an old post of mine about Galileo, here is a link: https://www.cathinfo.com/the-earth-god-made-flat-earth-geocentrism/galileo-was-wrong-and-the-church-was-right-to-condemn-him/ (https://www.cathinfo.com/the-earth-god-made-flat-earth-geocentrism/galileo-was-wrong-and-the-church-was-right-to-condemn-him/). When you are ready for a discussion of the subject, we should make a point of putting it in the right subforum: The Earth God Made - Flat Earth, Geocentrism (https://www.cathinfo.com/the-earth-god-made-flat-earth-geocentrism/)
Discussions about Jews and Judaism, depending on what aspect of the issue is the focus, could fit in various subforums so it is more flexible. I have been participating on traditional Catholic forums for around 10 years now, so I am quite used to dealing with the sort of heated discussions that arise on this and other topics.
In all honesty, this is the only criticism that I can move to this community: the tones of some replies do not incite or generate more interest... to the contrary aggressive tones may put off most readers. I propose that hostile and hateful tones do not make an argument more convicing but, in fact, are counterproductive to the cause being espoused. Those who attacks the character of the interlocutor instead of the idea, generally, are the ones who's ideas cannot stand up by themselves.
Search for my very first thread and look at what reply I received...
Mind you, I am 100% in favour of free speech. So much so that i would not censor any language whatsoever, not even blasphemy, as God will judge and punish.
I have observed many different forums and have concluded that it is a matter of trade-offs. Any forum that attempts to control "tone" ends up lacking free speech among other problems. Like you, I sometimes find the tone here overly aggressive or emotionally loaded, but it is not something that I expect to change. Over time, one learns which posters to avoid and which to seek out in order to find the posts that one most appreciates.
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Your convert status has been evident before this announcement. To give you credit due, your attachment to tribal pride is detectable, but considerably less than the average convert from тαℓмυdic Judaism. Compare your traditionalism with the subversion by the Marranos of the apostate so-called "Hebrew-Catholics." You are way ahead. Don't be disconcerted by that. :-)
I was pleased when I first found a website about Hebrew-Catholics because I read an article that acknowledged that (тαℓмυdic) Jews, like everyone else, need to accept Jesus Christ as their Saviour. So many people have lost knowledge of this truth these days. But then, as I looked at more of the articles, I could see they were full of errors. It was very disappointing.
Why do you refer to them as "apostate" rather than "heretical"? My impression was the main problem was the heresy of judaizing.
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I was pleased when I first found a website about Hebrew-Catholics because I read an article that acknowledged that (тαℓмυdic) Jews, like everyone else, need to accept Jesus Christ as their Saviour. So many people have lost knowledge of this truth these days. But then, as I looked at more of the articles, I could see they were full of errors. It was very disappointing.
Why do you refer to them as "apostate" rather than "heretical"? My impression was the main problem was the heresy of judaizing.
Apostate can apply to one abandoning the Church for heresy.
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I was pleased when I first found a website about Hebrew-Catholics because I read an article that acknowledged that (тαℓмυdic) Jews, like everyone else, need to accept Jesus Christ as their Saviour. So many people have lost knowledge of this truth these days. But then, as I looked at more of the articles, I could see they were full of errors. It was very disappointing.
Why do you refer to them as "apostate" rather than "heretical"? My impression was the main problem was the heresy of judaizing.
The Council of Florence infallibly and unchangeably damned Jєωιѕн rites:
“§ 712 It [the Holy Catholic Church] firmly believes, professes, and teaches that the matter pertaining to the law of the Old Testament, of the Mosaic law, which are divided into ceremonies, sacred rites, sacrifices, and sacraments, because they were established to signify something in the future, although they were suited to Divine worship at that time, after our Lord’s coming had been signified by them, ceased, and the Sacraments of the New Testament began; and that whoever, even after the passion, placed hope in these matters of law and submitted himself to them as necessary for salvation, as if faith in Christ could not save without them, sinned mortally. Yet it does not deny that after the passion of Christ up to the promulgation of the Gospel they could have been observed until they were believed to be in no way necessary for salvation; but after the promulgation of the Gospel it asserts they cannot be observed without the loss of eternal salvation. All, therefore, who after that time observe circuмcision and the Sabbath and the other requirements of the law, it declares alien to the Christian faith and not in the least fit to participate in eternal salvation, unless someday they recover from these errors….
“§714 The Most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews, and heretics, and schismatics, can ever be partakers of eternal life, but that they are to go into the eternal fire ‘which was prepared for the devil, and his angels,’ (Matthew 25:41) unless before death they are joined with Her; and that so important is the unity of this Ecclesiastical Body, that only those remaining within this unity can profit from the sacraments of the Church unto salvation, and that they alone can receive an eternal recompense for their fasts, alms deeds, and other works of Christian piety and duties of a Christian soldier. No one, let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ, can be saved unless they abide within the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church.”
Cantate Domino, from the infallible ecuмenical Council of Florence under His Holiness Pope Eugene IV defining the Solemn Doctrine: Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus (“Outside the Church, there is no salvation.”), promulgated by papal bull, February 4, 1444 [Florentine calendar] in Denziger, Enchiridion Symbolorum, The Sources of Catholic Dogma, § 712-714
The "Hebrew-Catholics" have reintroduced those damned rites:
“Hebrew-Catholics” change agents steeped in тαℓмυdic Master Race pride
Hebrew Catholics make up a false religion of their own contrivances and the rabbis’
http://callmejorgebergoglio.blogspot.com/2017/10/hebrew-catholics-make-up-false-religion.html (http://callmejorgebergoglio.blogspot.com/2017/10/hebrew-catholics-make-up-false-religion.html)
Besides reverting to the damned rite of Sukkot, they have introduced the тαℓмυdic hate feast seders (http://judaism.is/paganism.html#seder), tampered with the words of consecration, and prayers—all of it a reversion to tribal pride, completely ignoring St. Paul's exhortation:
"There is neither Jew nor Greek: there is neither bond nor free: there is neither male nor female. For you are all one in Christ Jesus." Galatians 3:28
“Conservative” Cardinal Raymond Burke promotes тαℓмυdic agitprop
Raymond the Rabbi attends Seder Meal
Cardinal Raymond Burke & the Association of Hebrew Catholics
http://callmejorgebergoglio.blogspot.com/2017/04/raymond-rabbi-attends-seder-meal.html (http://callmejorgebergoglio.blogspot.com/2017/04/raymond-rabbi-attends-seder-meal.html)
Their apostate reversions are indications of being in tribal pride, not in Christ Jesus.
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The Council of Florence infallibly and unchangeably damned Jєωιѕн rites:
The "Hebrew-Catholics" have reintroduced those damned rites:
“Hebrew-Catholics” change agents steeped in тαℓмυdic Master Race pride
Hebrew Catholics make up a false religion of their own contrivances and the rabbis’
http://callmejorgebergoglio.blogspot.com/2017/10/hebrew-catholics-make-up-false-religion.html (http://callmejorgebergoglio.blogspot.com/2017/10/hebrew-catholics-make-up-false-religion.html)
Besides reverting to the damned rite of Sukkot, they have introduced the тαℓмυdic hate feast seders (http://judaism.is/paganism.html#seder), tampered with the words of consecration, and prayers—all of it a reversion to tribal pride, completely ignoring St. Paul's exhortation:
"There is neither Jew nor Greek: there is neither bond nor free: there is neither male nor female. For you are all one in Christ Jesus." Galatians 3:28
“Conservative” Cardinal Raymond Burke promotes тαℓмυdic agitprop
Raymond the Rabbi attends Seder Meal
Cardinal Raymond Burke & the Association of Hebrew Catholics
http://callmejorgebergoglio.blogspot.com/2017/04/raymond-rabbi-attends-seder-meal.html (http://callmejorgebergoglio.blogspot.com/2017/04/raymond-rabbi-attends-seder-meal.html)
Their apostate reversions are indications of being in tribal pride, not in Christ Jesus.
I felt sickened when I first learned that they practiced seders and other Jєωιѕн rites. It just seemed so obviously wrong. It seemed like a classic example of the heresy of judaizing.
Apostate can apply to one abandoning the Church for heresy.
As I understand it, an apostate formally rejects Catholicism. These people, however, are claiming to be Catholics while engaged in heretical beliefs and practices. They should not be trying to preserve a distinct Jєωιѕн identity as Catholics. They should not be talking like they are some sort of special or superior kind of Catholic. (I really like how Mark explained it as "being in tribal pride not in Christ Jesus.")
I am just a bit puzzled by the use of the word "apostate" here. I don't have any real disagreement about how wrong and disgusting it is.
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Having had the Faith at their respective Baptisms, they left the Faith for their damned rites and tribal pride and are subverting the Faith. I'd call that apostate.
As far as I am concerned they are simply the latest iteration of Marranos, "neo-Marranos," if you will.
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It would be a good thing to do, and obviously you have the experience and expertise. But why are you not homeschooling?
We did consider home schooling as I was home schooled myself, by a Jesuit who lived in our home for 12 years until I was sent off to a Catholic school in England (*). In the end we did not home school our daughter, for three reasons:
1. The Jesuits Provincial could not spare a priest to come and live-in to our home to educate our daughter and, as I mentioned, my wife is Orthodox.
2. Three, very conservative, early-age behaviouralists and child psychologists recommended us against home schooling, as peers socialization is paramount in character development.
3. We found an Opus Dei school that (we though) would impart correct Catholic catechism. Remember that I begun my re-version only very recently and I did not even suspect that there was a crisis in our Church, let alone understand it.
(*) there I met a few times Monsignor Cherles-Roux (England Provincial of my school Order). During one such meeting, my father informed him that my grandfather had guarded the 1958 conclave and I remember comments about the conclave's great "mess"... so Mons. Charles-Roux told us hat he too had been involved (I do not remember in what capacity) in the 1958 conclave and he too affirmed of great confusion. He even added that Card. Siri had been elevated to Pontiff with the name of Gregory XIII. I was too young to understand all this and I only awoke to Catholicism recently.
I am relieved that your eyes have been opened
So am I. But I feel terribly inadequate and this is why I seek catechism, not only for my daughter, but for myself too. Hence my OP in this thread.
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Did you go to the provided link?
http://judaism.is/covenants.html (http://judaism.is/covenants.html)
Yes but I did not understand most of it as I am not sufficiently well versed with all this topic of Hebrew-Christian.
I don't even know what they are and what they believe.
If the council of Florence § 712 and § 714 state what you quote, then the celebration that was cited in the link, the one in the tent, could well be in conflict with our doctrine.
At this point of my conversion I must focus on other matters but I appreciate that you took the time to help me understand.
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Boils down to this: Modern "Jews" aren't actually Jews at all, they are the ѕуηαgσgυє of Satan. What he means by "you weren't a Jew until you entered the Church" is that the Church is the new Israel, and Catholicism is the continuation of the faith of the Hebrew fathers. So we're the "real Jews" in a sense.
I see. Thank you for helping me understand. Now it's a bit clearer.
It makes sense from a Christian perspective as Christ was born, lived and died as a Jew therefore, by extension, we could call ourselves Jews who believe that the Messiah arrived in conrapposition to Jews who do not believe that the Messiah arrived.
Of course that's all semantics that makes for very confusing discussion, so I(and 99% of people, even anti-Zionists) will refer to the ѕуηαgσgυє of Satan as the Jews.
I cannot bring myself to depict Jews as Satan and only believe that they are in error, just as muslims, buddists, protestants, etc..
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If you would like to see an old post of mine about Galileo, here is a link: https://www.cathinfo.com/the-earth-god-made-flat-earth-geocentrism/galileo-was-wrong-and-the-church-was-right-to-condemn-him/ (https://www.cathinfo.com/the-earth-god-made-flat-earth-geocentrism/galileo-was-wrong-and-the-church-was-right-to-condemn-him/). When you are ready for a discussion of the subject, we should make a point of putting it in the right subforum: The Earth God Made - Flat Earth, Geocentrism (https://www.cathinfo.com/the-earth-god-made-flat-earth-geocentrism/)
Mammamia! That thread is very long. I read the last few posts, by cassini and Ladislaus but reading it all will have to wait for later on when I will have finished my main study here...
Discussions about Jews and Judaism, depending on what aspect of the issue is the focus, could fit in various subforums so it is more flexible. I have been participating on traditional Catholic forums for around 10 years now, so I am quite used to dealing with the sort of heated discussions that arise on this and other topics.
I have observed many different forums and have concluded that it is a matter of trade-offs. Any forum that attempts to control "tone" ends up lacking free speech among other problems. Like you, I sometimes find the tone here overly aggressive or emotionally loaded, but it is not something that I expect to change. Over time, one learns which posters to avoid and which to seek out in order to find the posts that one most appreciates.
:) thumbs up
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Having had the Faith at their respective Baptisms, they left the Faith for their damned rites and tribal pride and are subverting the Faith. I'd call that apostate.
I think I understand. Their beliefs and practice are so far removed from Catholicism that they have, in effect, left the Faith, even though there was no formal declaration. You are using the term "apostate" to emphasize how unCatholic it is. That might not be the technical meaning of apostacy, but it makes sense.
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I cannot bring myself to depict Jews as Satan and only believe that they are in error, just as muslims, buddists, protestants, etc..
The expression "ѕуηαgσgυє of Satan" is a traditional term with a long history behind it. It is not quite the same as depicting Jews as Satan. At some time, it may be a good idea for you to do the studying required to understand this topic, but right now you are struggling with more basic issues. I think you are right to make them the higher priority.
Even believing that (тαℓмυdic) Jews are in error puts you ahead of typical conciliar views. It is far too common to find conciliar Catholics who believe that Jews are saved through Judaism and do not need to accept Christ. This is actually a significant symptom of the crisis in the Church, although it might not be as apparent as the problems with the Mass. As a practical matter, however, you cannot deal with everything at once and I think you have chosen the right starting point.
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The expression "ѕуηαgσgυє of Satan" is a traditional term with a long history behind it. It is not quite the same as depicting Jews as Satan. At some time, it may be a good idea for you to do the studying required to understand this topic, but right now you are struggling with more basic issues. I think you are right to make them the higher priority.
Even believing that (тαℓмυdic) Jews are in error puts you ahead of typical conciliar views. It is far too common to find conciliar Catholics who believe that Jews are saved through Judaism and do not need to accept Christ. This is actually a significant symptom of the crisis in the Church, although it might not be as apparent as the problems with the Mass. As a practical matter, however, you cannot deal with everything at once and I think you have chosen the right starting point.
:applause:
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We did consider home schooling as I was home schooled myself, by a Jesuit who lived in our home for 12 years until I was sent off to a Catholic school in England (*). In the end we did not home school our daughter, for three reasons:
1. The Jesuits Provincial could not spare a priest to come and live-in to our home to educate our daughter and, as I mentioned, my wife is Orthodox.
2. Three, very conservative, early-age behaviouralists and child psychologists recommended us against home schooling, as peers socialization is paramount in character development.
3. We found an Opus Dei school that (we though) would impart correct Catholic catechism. Remember that I begun my re-version only very recently and I did not even suspect that there was a crisis in our Church, let alone understand it.
(*) there I met a few times Monsignor Cherles-Roux (England Provincial of my school Order). During one such meeting, my father informed him that my grandfather had guarded the 1958 conclave and I remember comments about the conclave's great "mess"... so Mons. Charles-Roux told us hat he too had been involved (I do not remember in what capacity) in the 1958 conclave and he too affirmed of great confusion. He even added that Card. Siri had been elevated to Pontiff with the name of Gregory XIII. I was too young to understand all this and I only awoke to Catholicism recently.
So am I. But I feel terribly inadequate and this is why I seek catechism, not only for my daughter, but for myself too. Hence my OP in this thread.
Thank you, Tommaso, for answering my question related to homeschooling your daughter, supplying the reasons for deciding against it, though you gave it consideration.
I know that homeschooling is, or was in 2011, practically unheard of in Italy, though it did exist. It is increasing and you can find some articles on the web.
When we speak of homeschooling we mean education of the child/ren by the parents in the home/family setting. There are many of us here on CathInfo who do this - for various reasons - but I think the most common reason is so that our children can have a truly Catholic education which is not otherwise available to them. My husband and I homeschooled our children, simply because we believed that they would have a better education, without all the ugliness that was already abounding in the 1980's and 1990's. With God's help we, and they, were very successful.
About your first reason, I wonder that you would believe you need a Jesuit priest to come and live-in to your home to educate your daughter. I am sure that you and your wife would have enough skill and knowledge to do it yourselves; your Orthodox wife would be able to teach her everything except religion and possibly history (when your daughter is older).
About the second, I suggest you completely disregard "Three, very conservative, early-age behaviouralists". Indeed "peers socialization" is far from paramount in character development. Actually it could exactly the reverse. In fact homeschooled children tend to be the better socialised, spontaneous and at ease with people across a broad range of ages.
Sooner or later, many Catholic parents, and many others as well, come to the conclusion that they have no option but to homeschool. By the way there are quite a few threads here on CathInfo on homeschooling.
My children loved it and are now starting to homeschool our grandchildren who, God willing, will all be homeschooled.
HSLDA | Home Schooling - Italy
https://hslda.org/content/hs/international/Italy/default.asp
Traditional Catholic Homeschooling | Traditional Catholic Priest
http://www.traditionalcatholicpriest.com/2015/08/19/traditional-catholic-homeschooling/
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Bump
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I feel sad that Fisheaters has closed their Babel forum. I posted the catechism in the Chocktaw language. there were always between 150 and 175 views for every post. At the end it had over 75500 views. That is over 75000 views of people learning about the Catholic Faith (pre-Vatican II) in the Chocktaw language.
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... It is far too common to find conciliar Catholics who believe that Jews are saved through Judaism and do not need to accept Christ.
One can only be saved through Jesus and only if one dies in state of Grace. This is a dogmatic cornerstone of the Truth. This is why even protestants and Orthodox Christians cannot be saved, let alone jews or muslims.
This is actually a significant symptom of the crisis in the Church, although it might not be as apparent as the problems with the Mass.
From my understanding, the problem with the Mass is less serious than the problem with the renunciation of our Lord's kingship and with ecuмenism and inter faith dialogue. In my city they now practice Eucharistical Hospitality. It means that a Catholic priest can (and do) offer Holy Communion to Orthodox, Protestants, etc.. as long as they have been baptized.
In fact, it was this Eucharistical Hospitality absurdity that caused my doubts in accpeting an SSPX Eucharist. I have been so horrified by this ... heresy ? ... that I am terrified to make the same error in the other direction.
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Thank you, Tommaso, for answering my question related to homeschooling your daughter, supplying the reasons for deciding against it, though you gave it consideration.
Sorry if it took me some time to revert but, very coincidentally, a schooling problem kept me busy! I have been defending myself from my daughter school's (Opus Dei) WhatsApp "fathers' group" who suggest that I be blocked from posting comments that are oppressive and non-inclusive (I suggested that we pray for individual with inverted sɛҳuąƖ preferences so that they may be corrected).
About your first reason, I wonder that you would believe you need a Jesuit priest to come and live-in to your home to educate your daughter. I am sure that you and your wife would have enough skill and knowledge to do it yourselves; your Orthodox wife would be able to teach her everything except religion and possibly history (when your daughter is older).
i. I have little time (*)
ii. My wife does not feel sufficiently erudite for the task. We discussed using technical props but she is afraid to leave our daughter behind in academic topics.
(*) I work all day and, recently, I am devoting all my free time to self-catechism and to this community as I am re-verting to Catholicism
About the second, I suggest you completely disregard "Three, very conservative, early-age behaviouralists". Indeed "peers socialization" is far from paramount in character development. Actually it could exactly the reverse. In fact homeschooled children tend to be the better socialised, spontaneous and at ease with people across a broad range of ages.
Kindly, would you help me in locating literature that is based on scientific studies that support your understanding? I am very much interested as this was a key concern. My wife and I like to go in depth into the scientific testing methods used to reach conclusions.
HSLDA | Home Schooling - Italy
https://hslda.org/content/hs/international/Italy/default.asp
Traditional Catholic Homeschooling | Traditional Catholic Priest
http://www.traditionalcatholicpriest.com/2015/08/19/traditional-catholic-homeschooling/
Thank you for these links. I am finishing to read some links that a few members of this community recommended and I will read these links.
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I feel sad that Fisheaters has closed their Babel forum. I posted the catechism in the Chocktaw language. there were always between 150 and 175 views for every post. At the end it had over 75500 views. That is over 75000 views of people learning about the Catholic Faith (pre-Vatican II) in the Chocktaw language.
That is another priority for me: cathechism for adults.
I looked for catechism threads in this community but found only five correspondences and the best one was this one: https://www.cathinfo.com/sspx-resistance-news/fr-mcdonald-catechism-new-zealand/msg656830/#msg656830
Is it recommendable?
In fact, I will start a new thread asking for advice on catechism for adults.
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Sorry if it took me some time to revert but, very coincidentally, a schooling problem kept me busy! I have been defending myself from my daughter school's (Opus Dei) WhatsApp "fathers' group" who suggest that I be blocked from posting comments that are oppressive and non-inclusive (I suggested that we pray for individual with inverted sɛҳuąƖ preferences so that they may be corrected).
i. I have little time (*)
ii. My wife does not feel sufficiently erudite for the task. We discussed using technical props but she is afraid to leave our daughter behind in academic topics.
(*) I work all day and, recently, I am devoting all my free time to self-catechism and to this community as I am re-verting to Catholicism
Regarding i)
Often we both overestimate and underestimate the time needed to homeschool our children.
- underestimate, because homeschooling (informal) takes all your child's waking hours.
- Overestimate because we think it will take as long in formal study to teach one child as it does to teach a group of, say, 25.
- In homeschooling you make your own hours convenient to you..
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Regarding 2)
All the mothers I know who homeschool/ed feel/ felt, at one time or another, but especially in starting, incompetent. But in order to start it is at least essential for both parents to see the necessity, and sometimes that takes many bad experiences within the school system; and sadly these abound as you are discovering. Our eldest child was three years in school, our second two years, when at last we reached the point when we decided to withdraw them. There was much more work for me in them attending school than there was in educating them ourselves at home. And so much peace of mind.
To be continued...
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Kindly, would you help me in locating literature that is based on scientific studies that support your understanding? I am very much interested as this was a key concern. My wife and I like to go in depth into the scientific testing methods used to reach conclusions.
Thank you for these links. I am finishing to read some links that a few members of this community recommended and I will read these links.
Tommaso, my understanding of "peer socialisation" is acquired, not through any academic studies, but through observation and my own personal experience with my family, neighbours, friends, other homeschoolers.
The most common question homeschoolers hear is What about socialisation? For every family there are different needs. A large family will have different needs from a small family. We had a homeschooling group with whom we shared activities, ideas, skills, newsletters. Children attend various sport or dance, craft or cookery or other activities. The opportunities are endless.
When it was time to enrol our eldest in a short course at TAFE in order to matriculate, I was anxious as to our chances, but was told by the head of the school, "Don't worry. Our best students are homeschoolers."
There is no reason to think a child would be behind academically, as once they are competent in literacy, and sufficiently disciplined, they can order their own studies, under your direction of course, as head of the home. Our children were very pleased with themselves when they achieved this.
This article which I found on the web gives examples of some studies.
Homeschooled children are far more socially engaged than you might think
http://theconversation.com/homeschooled-children-are-far-more-socially-engaged-than-you-might-think-111353
Good work with all your own studies. I admire your sincere seeking after Truth.
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... But in order to start it is at least essential for both parents to see the necessity, and sometimes that takes many bad experiences within the school system;
We, so far, have reached the temporary decision to home school our daughter's catchism and remove her from school during those hours. This will not eliminate the bad influences.
We are not challenged by exam and testing scores. We are confident that home schooling can produce superlative academic results.
What challenges our choices are two main, non academic, factors:
1. Socialization, we understand, is paramount for child character development and socialization skills.
2. She enjoys her school time and we feel bad to take away her friends as they are rarely available during the afternoons and only seldom during weekends.
You cite endless opportunities but we have none. Besides, our daughter is a single child.
We are open to read literature where comparative tests, under measurable and repeatable conditions, show that schooling is not beneficial to character development and socialization skills.
Good work with all your own studies. I admire your sincere seeking after Truth.
I am compelled and propelled in my studies and search for truth by my knowledge of my inadequacy as a catechist teacher and a spiritual guide for my daughter. My state as a father burdens me with the responsibility of my daughters chances of salvation. If I would give my life for her on this earth, it follows naturally to be willing to give my life for her in Heaven too.
Faith in Jesus and love for my Wife and daughter spark my flame to learn more every morning, as I wake up and see them next to me. Heck! I ask my wife to marry me again, every morning. ;D my Wife says that we, Italians, are too passionate! LOL :laugh1:
Love and faith can move mountains.
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We, so far, have reached the temporary decision to home school our daughter's catchism and remove her from school during those hours. This will not eliminate the bad influences.
I wish you well in this venture. It will be a very interesting and fullfilling experience. I wonder what will be the response from the school.
What challenges our choices are two main, non academic, factors:
1. Socialization, we understand, is paramount for child character development and socialization skills.
2. She enjoys her school time and we feel bad to take away her friends as they are rarely available during the afternoons and only seldom during weekends
1.Agreed
2. Very understandable, especially being a lone child.
You cite endless opportunities but we have none.
Isn't it ironic that we lived very isolated from towns and cities, yet 25 - 30 years ago when we started out there were many opportunities. I have found that in Italy homeschooling is almost unthinkable. I feel sure that the opportunities are there but not so easy to find.
We are open to read literature where comparative tests, under measurable and repeatable conditions, show that schooling is not beneficial to character development and socialization skills
It is not my contention that schooling is not beneficial, but that education by the parents in the home setting is (possibly equally or more) beneficial, providing the parents are balanced, loving, responsible people. Schools tend to confine children to one age group, which can limit their social,skills. BUt the most dangerous threat to healthy socialisation is the taking away children's innocence which is so commonplace, even in so-called Catholic schools.
my Wife says that we, Italians, are too passionate! LOL
Being married to an Italian I would have to agree with her. :cheers:
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I wish you well in this venture. It will be a very interesting and fullfilling experience. I wonder what will be the response from the school.
They did not like it but agreed.
Isn't it ironic that we lived very isolated from towns and cities, yet 25 - 30 years ago when we started out there were many opportunities. I have found that in Italy homeschooling is almost unthinkable. I feel sure that the opportunities are there but not so easy to find.
I don't think it is so much a specific country as much as it is about a specific society and how it progressed. Families are too busy and do not have enough time to invest in their children. I am blessed that my wife - happily - chose to give up her career to raise our daughter. Not many can afford this and socialization outside "child parking" opportunities becomes rare. School. Sport. Music lessons. Anything that allows parents to spend their time at work or elsewhere.
Schools tend to confine children to one age group, which can limit their social,skills. BUt the most dangerous threat to healthy socialisation is the taking away children's innocence which is so commonplace, even in so-called Catholic schools.
I cannot agree more! Children need to grow up at their own pace and in their own time!
Being married to an Italian I would have to agree with her. :cheers:
:o oh... mammamia! I am so sorry for you! ;D
But we are going OT and disturbing the purpose of the thread. I do not want to incur in the wrath of the moderators!
Glad to continue in a more appropriate space.
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:o oh... mammamia! I am so sorry for you! ;D.
You get used to it and adjust after 37 years!
Glad to continue in a more appropriate space
Napoli or Chioggia? :cheers:
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Schools tend to confine children to one age group, which can limit their social,skills. BUt the most dangerous threat to healthy socialisation is the taking away children's innocence which is so commonplace, even in so-called Catholic schools.
That's actually a really interesting point. As I recall, the concept of teenagers or adolescents didn't actually exist until the majority of young people started going to high school. Before that, young people spent their teenage years around adults, doing apprenticeships or working with their parents on the farm or what have you. Teenagers are very much disposed towards copying the people around them, in the past that meant the person teaching them their trade, but with the advent of high school it meant copying other teens. That sort of isolation induced sub-culture is the case of teenage rebellion and counter-culture.
https://massculturalcouncil.org/creative-youth-development/boston-youth-arts-evaluation-project/brief-history-of-adolescence-youth-development/
It wasn’t until 1904 that the first president of the American Psychological Association, G. Stanley Hall, was credited with discovering adolescence (Henig, 2010, p. 4). In his study entitled “Adolescence,” he described this new developmental phase that came about due to social changes at the turn of the 20th century. Because of the influence of Child Labor Laws and universal education, youth had newfound time in their teenage years when the responsibilities of adulthood were not forced upon them as quickly as in the past. Hall did not have a very positive view of this phase, and he believed that society needed to “burn out the vestiges of evil in their nature” (G. Stanley Hall, 2010). Therefore, adolescence was a time of overcoming one’s beast-like impulses as one was engulfed in a period of “storm and stress” (Lerner & Israeloff, 2005, p. 4). He identified three key aspects of this phase: mood disruptions, conflict with parents, and risky behavior.
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That's actually a really interesting point. As I recall, the concept of teenagers or adolescents didn't actually exist until the majority of young people started going to high school. Before that, young people spent their teenage years around adults, doing apprenticeships or working with their parents on the farm or what have you. Teenagers are very much disposed towards copying the people around them, in the past that meant the person teaching them their trade, but with the advent of high school it meant copying other teens. That sort of isolation induced sub-culture is the case of teenage rebellion and counter-culture.
You are right. My husband started working full time in his father's business just prior to turning 13 and previously to that he had worked in out of school hours in his grandfather's patisserie in their home.
I declined the opportunity to stay in the school system and started work at 14 years, though I returned to study 5 years later, when I was ready for it.
These experiences did not hold us back. We never thought of ourselves as teenagers or adolescents - an entirely modern invention. Nowadays the teenage years seem, for some, to go on for decades. And to what good?