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Offline MaterDominici

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Re: JPaul banned
« Reply #30 on: August 21, 2018, 12:35:14 AM »
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    • Quote from: Pax Vobis on August 20, 2018, 11:44:33 PM
    The problem is, as always, pride.  100% of trad clerics (bishops included) are NOT trained theologians, and EVERY major disagreement is over some theological gray area, that, over time, was made into a mountain, when in reality, it is a molehill.  

    Early traditionalism in the 60s/70s was more concerned with staying alive and avoiding spiritual starvation, so disagreements over the menu didn’t happen.  Now that Trads are “fat and happy” with many priests and masses, we have time to argue about what should be served for dessert.  

    These arguments ARE avoidable if clerics would keep the Faith as the priority, if they would put aside their theological ambitions and if they would focus on devotions over explaining the minute details of dogma, then there would be peace because charity and love of God would be the goal instead of  “being right” or being educated on a certain topic.  

    IF I speak with the tongues of men, and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.  2And if I should have prophecy and should know all mysteries, and all knowledge, and if I should have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.  3And if I should distribute all my goods to feed the poor, and if I should deliver my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.
    I think you have a worthy point, but even if clerics should be willing to work across the divide of how to handle the Pope, I can't place all the blame on the priests. I see the laity operate in the same manner and know that MANY lay people are not content with any priest who won't make a dogmatic "mountain" out of the issue.
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    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: JPaul banned
    « Reply #31 on: August 21, 2018, 09:12:13 AM »
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    • Quote from: rum on August 20, 2018, 06:01:58 PM
    These two bans have me scratching my head. Telesphorus was invited back, and he was similarly dire about the state of the Church.

    Wessex and JPaul were two members who were good on the Jєωs.

    Just wait,

    There's a special feast day, I forget which day it is?...

    when Emperor Matthew declares a day of reconciliation for all souls banned from Cathinfo.


    But usually these folks are so bitter, they don't come back :farmer:
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    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline MyrnaM

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    Re: JPaul banned
    « Reply #32 on: August 21, 2018, 09:15:02 AM »
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    • Again, reading here and all the back and forths, good people with complaints without any solutions, which will never come till we have a True Pontiff sitting in the Chair of Peter.

    I honestly believe you all know that!

    Yes, pray for Unity with all your heart, pray for the souls in Purgatory, to help them; and ask them to help us.  
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    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: JPaul banned
    « Reply #33 on: August 21, 2018, 09:47:31 AM »
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    • Quote
    I can't place all the blame on the priests. I see the laity operate in the same manner and know that MANY lay people are not content with any priest who won't make a dogmatic "mountain" out of the issue.
    Not all Bishops and not all priests are 100% guilty.  Some enjoy controversy and drama more than others.  However, it is a FACT that these types of disagreements didn't exist in the 60s/70s.  Yes, the laity nowadays are just as rabid and divisive as many of the poor-exampled priests they learned it from.  But if priests started clamping down on this childish bickering, it would stop very quickly.

    Imagine if most priests started preaching:  "Hey, quit worrying about the pope and say your rosary.  The pope question isn't getting you to heaven, but the rosary will."

    Or, "Stop spending time arguing about 3 Baptisms and go help your family or volunteer for the poor or help out at your chapel.  This is what will get you to heaven.  You aren't responsible for the ignorant indian or the good-willed muslim living in Syria.  Only God is."

    Or, "Hey everyone, V2 and the new mass happened.  They aren't good for your soul.  So, make your life simple, and don't go.  Don't worry about your family/friends that go, just pray for them.  Spend your time on more important things than trying to figure it all out.  You have the True Mass and God will judge you based on what you do with this grace.  It's not your job to save the Church."

    Imagine if priests go the laity to just CALM DOWN on these issues.  How much more peace could there be?  How much less emotional turmoil?  Peace comes from the top.  Has to start with the priests/bishops.  
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    Offline MyrnaM

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    Re: JPaul banned
    « Reply #34 on: August 21, 2018, 10:52:35 AM »
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    • Quote
    Quote

    Or, "Stop spending time arguing about 3 Baptisms and go help your family or volunteer for the poor or help out at your chapel.  This is what will get you to heaven.  You aren't responsible for the ignorant indian or the good-willed muslim living in Syria.  Only God is."

    Or, "Hey everyone, V2 and the new mass happened.  They aren't good for your soul.  So, make your life simple, and don't go.  Don't worry about your family/friends that go, just pray for them.  Spend your time on more important things than trying to figure it all out.  You have the True Mass and God will judge you based on what you do with this grace.  It's not your job to save the Church."

    Imagine if priests go the laity to just CALM DOWN on these issues.  How much more peace could there be?  How much less emotional turmoil?  Peace comes from the top.  Has to start with the priests/bishops.  

    EXCELLENT ADVICE = Thumb up from me!
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    Offline JezusDeKoning

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    Re: JPaul banned
    « Reply #35 on: August 21, 2018, 11:09:11 AM »
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    • Quote from: Pax Vobis on August 21, 2018, 09:47:31 AM
    Not all Bishops and not all priests are 100% guilty.  Some enjoy controversy and drama more than others.  However, it is a FACT that these types of disagreements didn't exist in the 60s/70s.  Yes, the laity nowadays are just as rabid and divisive as many of the poor-exampled priests they learned it from.  But if priests started clamping down on this childish bickering, it would stop very quickly.

    Imagine if most priests started preaching:  "Hey, quit worrying about the pope and say your rosary.  The pope question isn't getting you to heaven, but the rosary will."

    Or, "Stop spending time arguing about 3 Baptisms and go help your family or volunteer for the poor or help out at your chapel.  This is what will get you to heaven.  You aren't responsible for the ignorant indian or the good-willed muslim living in Syria.  Only God is."

    Or, "Hey everyone, V2 and the new mass happened.  They aren't good for your soul.  So, make your life simple, and don't go.  Don't worry about your family/friends that go, just pray for them.  Spend your time on more important things than trying to figure it all out.  You have the True Mass and God will judge you based on what you do with this grace.  It's not your job to save the Church."

    Imagine if priests go the laity to just CALM DOWN on these issues.  How much more peace could there be?  How much less emotional turmoil?  Peace comes from the top.  Has to start with the priests/bishops.  
    In the end, unless you are the one in a billion who becomes Roman Pontiff, it is out of your control. It is out of the control of EVERYONE else.

    Thank you, thank you, thank you. This should be posted on the door of every Trad chapel in the nation.
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    Offline Meg

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    Re: JPaul banned
    « Reply #36 on: August 21, 2018, 11:16:43 AM »
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    • Quote from: MaterDominici on August 21, 2018, 12:35:14 AM
    I think you have a worthy point, but even if clerics should be willing to work across the divide of how to handle the Pope, I can't place all the blame on the priests. I see the laity operate in the same manner and know that MANY lay people are not content with any priest who won't make a dogmatic "mountain" out of the issue.

    I agree.

    IMO, the laity want to control the traditional priests. They believe that traditional priests and bishops are subject to the whims of the laity. That's so very American, at least to me.

    It reminds me of the Congregationalist Principle. The Congregationalists started out as a Puritan sect - I think in the 1700's. They had this tenet which said that whatever the congregation wanted, as a majority, that's what the preacher or minister was going to expound on. In other words, the people in the congregation decided what the individual churches believed. It seems that this principle is common to traditional Catholicism too.
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    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline B from A

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    Re: JPaul banned
    « Reply #37 on: August 21, 2018, 01:51:39 PM »
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    • Quote from: MyrnaM on August 21, 2018, 10:52:35 AM
    Quote

    "    Or, "Stop spending time arguing, ..."


    EXCELLENT ADVICE = Thumb up from me!

    I would have used this excerpt instead:

    Quote from: Pax Vobis on August 21, 2018, 09:47:31 AM
    "Hey, quit worrying about the pope and say your rosary.  The pope question isn't getting you to heaven, but the rosary will."

    Or, "Stop spending time arguing about 3 Baptisms and go help your family or volunteer for the poor or help out at your chapel.  This is what will get you to heaven.  You aren't responsible for the ignorant indian or the good-willed muslim living in Syria.  Only God is."

    Or, "Hey everyone, V2 and the new mass happened.  They aren't good for your soul.  So, make your life simple, and don't go.  Don't worry about your family/friends that go, just pray for them.  Spend your time on more important things than trying to figure it all out.  You have the True Mass and God will judge you based on what you do with this grace.  It's not your job to save the Church."
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    Offline JezusDeKoning

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    Re: JPaul banned
    « Reply #38 on: August 21, 2018, 03:41:20 PM »
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    • Quote from: Meg on August 21, 2018, 11:16:43 AM
    I agree.

    IMO, the laity want to control the traditional priests. They believe that traditional priests and bishops are subject to the whims of the laity. That's so very American, at least to me.

    It reminds me of the Congregationalist Principle. The Congregationalists started out as a Puritan sect - I think in the 1700's. They had this tenet which said that whatever the congregation wanted, as a majority, that's what the preacher or minister was going to expound on. In other words, the people in the congregation decided what the individual churches believed. It seems that this principle is common to traditional Catholicism too.
    They (meaning the Congregationalists) eventually became the United Church of Christ, one of the most liberal and barely Christian Protestant denominations. Clearly letting the laity control the clergy worked out REAL well.
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    Offline MyrnaM

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    Re: JPaul banned
    « Reply #39 on: August 21, 2018, 03:43:08 PM »
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    B from A liked this quote from Pax ... ""Hey, quit worrying about the pope and say your rosary.  The pope question isn't getting you to heaven, but the rosary will."
    I left that out because I believe we are all praying the rosary, and I have said on this forum several times, when we stand before God He will not ask us what we think of whoever is sitting in the Chair, I believe He will ask, "HOW DID YOU KEEP THE FAITH."

    Thanks, B from A for repeating the advice from Pax.
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    Offline MaterDominici

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    Re: JPaul banned
    « Reply #40 on: August 21, 2018, 09:56:09 PM »
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    • I'll admit I'm having a very hard time picturing Trads operating across the "pope question" lines. Perhaps I've been in the CathInfo war zone too long to think that's even possible.

    I'll pick on Myrna for a bit since she's been around here the longest... A question for you ... Say all Trad priests are working together and your priest is transferred out and a non-sede is transferred in. Would you have a problem with that or would you consider Sedevacantism to be a personal opinion that, while preferable, isn't necessary in the priest providing Sacraments to you and your family? Additionally, would you be attending only reluctantly or continue to support the parish with full enthusiasm? (I've seen plenty of "Sacrament-only" Mass attendees.)

    (Anyone else is free to answer, just switch the sede / non-sede around as necessary.)
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    Offline MyrnaM

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    Re: JPaul banned
    « Reply #41 on: August 21, 2018, 10:47:02 PM »
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    • I have already attended SSPX Mass and received the Sacraments there several times, on vacations in the past.  My thinking was the Blessed Sacrament was so much more important to me than my issues with who is sitting in the Chair of Peter.

    Also where I live in Spokane is 30 minutes away from Post Falls, SSPX and have also attended Mass, and Sacraments there.
    You see what is happening because of the closeness in miles the young adults from each parish, SSPX and CMRI are uniting in marriage, therefore, the parents and relatives are coming together.  It is to the point already that Post Falls parish are sending their children to Mount St. Michael school for reasons of their own.  Not saying all of them are doing that but here and there and every year we receive a few more.  Our Bishop and parish priest nuns also know their beliefs about the pope issue, but so far at least as I know it hasn't been a problem.  Perhaps it isn't a problem because from the pulpit the priest during the sermon never speaks about Vatican II and the crisis with the pope.  Our sermons are about the catechism, feast days, monthly dedications, stories of Saints.  If one did come to the Fatima Conference always in October, that is when we hear about the heresies and evil thinkings of Francis.   

    When my granddaughter married a young man from SSPX, Post Falls almost 5 years ago, they married in the SSPX Church with permission of Bishop Pivarunas, but their children when they come of age, the plan is to send them to the Mount. They themselves go back and forth on Sunday for Mass, sometimes they are at Post Falls, and other weeks at the Mount.

    I do not know if the priests converse with each other or not it seems Post Falls priests get transferred out more, where we have had the same Pastor now for decades. 

    I will add it is not a Paradise yet, there are some members that refuse to attend either or depending on this or that.  Just saying that because I don't want to give the impression that it is all good.  

    I hope that helps.   
      
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    Offline King Wenceslas

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    Re: JPaul banned
    « Reply #42 on: August 24, 2018, 02:52:59 PM »
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    • In this day and age all I want is for the priest to say mass, preach the gospel, and stay out of my life. I am tri-ritual. Prefer the Latin mass, go to Byzantine, and go to NO if I have to fulfill Sunday obligation.

    Please no return to the 1950's for me. Pray, pay, and obey is not working for me anymore. Tried that once and it almost destroyed me. Man that was tough. Still digging out of it.
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