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Author Topic: Job listings of shame  (Read 12538 times)

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Offline moneil

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Re: Job listings of shame
« Reply #30 on: Yesterday at 06:44:50 PM »
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  • That's simply untrue, and I aslo know of many in said class who have personally told me that their bodies are beginning to give out and they're looking for other things to do.

    There are probably SOME trades that are not SUPER physically demanding ... such as to be an electrician, though that can vary as well, but most of the others are physically very tough jobs, from plumbing to carpentry, etc.  Yes, you can still do it to a point, but it's simply inevitable that you SLOW down, you start getting back or knee problems.  Good luck trying to do one of those jobs if you've thrown your back out.  AND you're much less vigorous and your abilities are diminished.  Why do you think that professional athletes are considered washed up in their early 40s?  And these are men whose very lives revolve around working out and keeping in shape, even in the various roles that are less demanding, like you play baseball as a DH or play first base, where you don't have to exert yourself all that much, or as a catcher.  After their early 40s or so, their reflexes start to go, as do their batting averages, as perhaps their eyesite begins to fade, and so on and so forth.  That's just a fact.  So, just like with programming, NOBODY is going to want a guy who's closing in on 60 compared to taking someone in his 20s or even 30s.  After decades of experience, you could be a supervisor, a mentor to others, etc. ... but you'd have diminished role in the actual physical aspects of the job, and somebody just getting into those trades when going on 60 could never assume that type of role, where he'd be the wise sage that others would look up to and consult with.  You'd be a newbie at 60.  They hire newbies when they're young precisely to utlize their youth, energy, and their vigor ... but then as those attributes and qualities diminish, their experience and knowledge increase.  60-year-old newbie is pretty much a non-starter.
    I'm at a loss as to what track you're on.  It is absolutely NOT true that people used to retire at 55.  When the Social Security Act passed in 1935 a retirement age of 65 was set, and its has been increasing as people live longer.  Before that most kept working or had to be supported by their families, simply historical fact.  It would be interesting to see what source you have for that fantasy.

    As for it being difficult to find work as one ages, that is true.  I left a dairy farm position at age 66, at least five years earlier than I had planned, as I needed to move closer to help with my mother who was in her late 90's.  I was determined not to draw social security nor from retirement savings until age 70, and finding adequate work was tough, the market place prefers younger.  I was fortunate in that I was staying at mom's farm, so my housing costs were minimal.

    It is true that some trades can extract a physical toll, but there is a lot of variability.  A machinist or welder in a shop won't have the same demands as a welder working on an oil or gas pipeline in the Dakota's in the winter.  A cabinet maker won't have the same demands as a house framer.  Genetics comes into play, as well as how well one takes care of themselves.  My health insurance pays for a gym membership and I need to work more intentionally now (at age 74) to maintain flexibility, especially with some arthritis setting in, but I'm still capable of working cattle.  I'm not as quick as I used to be but a lifetime of experience often gives me an edge over the yung'uns.  I now work part time at a funeral home and two of us often need to load a 300 + pound casket into the hearse.

    You said a lot of the same things I've said, and I never said it would be easy to find trade work as one ages, its not!  But what does that have to do with retiring as age 55?

    I would though encourage young people to look into the trades (metal work, carpentry, electrical, plumbing, HVAC, mechanics).  While traditional manufacturing has been diminishing because of automation and outsourcing, repair work and on site fabrication have growing demand.  New technologies and better understanding of ergonomics and kinesiology make some jobs less physically demanding or destructive of the body than they used to be.  If one takes care of themselves (exercise, stretching, keep weight under control) most people can work the trades into their 70's while putting aside savings for their elder years..  And yes, they often will move into less physically demanding supervisory positions because of their experience.



    Offline Centroamerica

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    Re: Job listings of shame
    « Reply #31 on: Today at 06:30:08 AM »
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  • Sure, we'd love to ... but they've engineered things to make it difficult for someone to raise a family in those trades (where a few decades ago it was quite possible), AND Matthew and I are in situations where, quite frankly, we're a bit too old to be able to deal with the physical part of many or most such jobs.  I'll be 58 in a couple months.  Poeple USED to retired at 55, and the way things are going, I'll be working until 80.
    You are right. It is extremely difficult to maintain a family in the trades. 

    The IBEW electrical union has so much work between powerhouses and data centers that they are begging oldtymers to come out of retirement. I’ve seen, also, 55 year olds enter the IBEW apprenticeship and complete it and earn enough towards their retirement in those last productive years. Granted, those were exceptionally humble individuals. But it is possible. Management of family time is the biggest hurdle. 
    We conclude logically that religion can give an efficacious and truly realistic answer to the great modern problems only if it is a religion that is profoundly lived, not simply a superficial and cheap religion made up of some vocal prayers and some ceremonies...

    You are not obliged to resolve the Church’s crisis by absolutizing any faction. Your obligation is to preserve faith, reason, humility, and charity,and to refuse to make any human authority into an idol.


    Offline Centroamerica

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    Re: Job listings of shame
    « Reply #32 on: Today at 06:34:35 AM »
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  • .
    We conclude logically that religion can give an efficacious and truly realistic answer to the great modern problems only if it is a religion that is profoundly lived, not simply a superficial and cheap religion made up of some vocal prayers and some ceremonies...

    You are not obliged to resolve the Church’s crisis by absolutizing any faction. Your obligation is to preserve faith, reason, humility, and charity,and to refuse to make any human authority into an idol.

    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Job listings of shame
    « Reply #33 on: Today at 08:02:17 AM »
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  • .

    Perhaps if I were a retired Union Wireman.  Question is whether they'd take on a 58-year-old as an apprentice. :laugh1:  I think we know the answer.  Plus they're talking about 12 hours per week (600 hours).

    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Job listings of shame
    « Reply #34 on: Today at 08:05:42 AM »
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  • I'm at a loss as to what track you're on.  It is absolutely NOT true that people used to retire at 55.

    You can keep saying that, but everyone I knew in my father's generation either did or could retire at 55.  Obviously some people continued to work after that.  Nobody said that it was mandatory to retire at 55, but just about anyone COULD if they wanted to and did just a bit of planning (i.e. stuck with their company's pension plan).  Some people would retire and then go back to work (at least part time) after a while because they were bored.  There's still even a remnant "IRS Rule 55" that I believe remains in effect today.  Federal Employees all used to reach full retirement age and full pension at 55, and many companies also hit full pension age at 55, and many retired.  I grew up in a blue collar neighborhood (lower middle class), and nearly everybody there, people who worked at factories, various other plants, etc. ... they all retired by 55 with million-dollar pensions.  Next door neighbor worked at an aluminum plant (ALCOA), worked 30 years, raised a family with 4 children on a single income, retired at 55 with a million-dollar pension.


    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Job listings of shame
    « Reply #35 on: Today at 08:27:29 AM »
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  • Here's how they pulled it off.

    They deliberately started propagandizing women to get into the work force, to be "independent" of their wicked husbands, to have "careers" that would "fulfill" them (as if pushing papers in an office was more fulfilling than raising children), etc. etc.

    As more women got into the workforce, it started to drive wages down, since there were fewer jobs for men, who now had to compete with women for many of the same jobs.

    Then, as more families were two-income and had more money coming in, prices started going up because more people could afford things at higher prices.

    With this vicious cycle you eventually got to a point that it was extremely difficult if not impossible to raise a family on a single income unless it was a high-end type of income.

    Back in the day, someone like my neighbor who worked at an aluminum plant, or as a machinist, or in a factory, could own a home, a couple cars, could raise quite a few children ... all on an income that these days could barely get you a one-bedroom apartment, a car, food, insurance, etc. for a single guy.  People could even get by fine with a living wage just working at a gas station or grocery store, if they didn't have a family.  Now, with those types of jobs you simply can't afford an apartment and car (not even close).

    Now, in those days, most companies also had solid pension plans, and many people worked their entire careers at a single company, and then collected large pensions at 55 (having worked a little over 30 years there) and retired.

    At some point, however, they created these "401(k)" plans, which made it so companies could dump their own pension plans, but that was partly a scam so that companies wouldn't have to fund pensions and also to prop the stock market.  Few people invested in stocks back then, as interest rates on bank CDs were very reasonable.  I recall my father locking down a large sum of money at 12% CD rates for a long time.  That's another reason they dropped interest rates at banks, where it was next to worthless to keep your money in a bank, even with CDs, when they were paying out a lousy 2%-3%.  So desperate people also went into the stock market, and that's the only reason the stock market has been inflated all these years, by forced participation via 401K.

    Then the 401K contributions / matches from employers got increasingly stingy, pensions went away completely, and companies had no problem laying people off even if it could save them 1% on their bottom line.  So the idea of a person working 30+ years at one company became completely non-exsitent.  Since employers had no loyalty to their employees, that attitude was reciprocated by the employees ... so if they could jump companies to get a 10% raise (which they could never get within their company), off they went.  That also helped wipe out the company-based pension system.  I knew some people in my father's generation who told me that they worked 55+ years at various companies (some union others even non-union), where there were quite a few "slow" years for the company, but the company kept them on, and they sat around playing cards all day during the slow periods.  Companies realized it would be more expensive to hire new people and retrain them than to absorb down times, plus realized it would hurt morale, cause people they had invested in by training to leave, etc.  At some point they stopped caring about these intangibles and only cared about next quarter's profit margin ... short-term thinking, not long term.

    Then of course you had the offshoring, the illegal immigrants, etc. ... all compounding the effect, with the goal being to wipe out an independent middle class, and ultimately make us all dependent entirely on the government.

    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Job listings of shame
    « Reply #36 on: Today at 08:39:07 AM »
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  • Minimum Wage is still hovering around $12 on average in most states, and it's what those jobs pay around here.

    That's about $1800 per month take-home pay after taxes, etc.

    You'd be hard-pressed to find an apartment that isn't in the drug-infested slums for under $1000 per month.  Then a car payment on a decent / acceptable (not great) car might be $300 per month.  Then there's utilities, insurance, whatnot, running another $200 or so.  Now you're left with $300 per month for food, for gas, for clothing, etc.  AND these jobs rarely provide any medical insurance, and if/when they do, you're probably dropping another $300 out of your pay for that.

    There's no way even a single person can live on minimum wage these days ... unless they're living at home with parents.

    Online Everlast22

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    Re: Job listings of shame
    « Reply #37 on: Today at 08:56:14 AM »
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  • There's no way even a single person can live on minimum wage these days ... unless they're living at home with parents.
    This is why homestead consolidation is a must at this point. Either with family, or other Catholics. Just wait until you get 4+ young kids post 2030. It has to be done.

    I'm trying to get my well-off very conservative N.O. parents, (who do help, and are very gracious) to buy land with, and have an in-law apartment with. Hopefully they can realize the problems we are all facing and stop being "boomerish".

    I make about 110k.year btw in a Midwest state. Just my income, my wife doesn't work, besides cleaning houses every now and then.

    We live in a comfortable small house renting near my work. Maybe I'm better off than I think, I just tend to always be thinking 3 years ahead. I have to..

    Still worrying...


    Offline Michaelknoxville

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    Re: Job listings of shame
    « Reply #38 on: Today at 12:31:48 PM »
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  • I can sympathize I’ve specialized my whole life in jobs “ Americans don’t want” like landscaping, construction, drain cleaning, roofing, ect…. And after being replaced by Dominican and Guatemalans after destroying my body and giving everything to my last employer for 15 years now I’m 40 beat but still capable and If I can find labor positions here in Knoxville that pay 15-20 bucks an hour they don’t want me. No one cares. Thank God I don’t have kids. I’ll end up working as a stock boy at Lowe’s part time because they do not want to pay you benefits for 15-17$ an hour 35 hrs a week so they don’t have to list your at full time. All this ice stuff going on and they aren’t deporting anyone. Trumps deported less than Obama did. He’s terribly useless in helping Americans. I would argue he has only made it worse in every way. 

    Offline Michaelknoxville

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    Re: Job listings of shame
    « Reply #39 on: Today at 05:26:32 PM »
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  • Why is there 0 Catholic networking like the Jews , 🇮🇳 Indians, Freemasons, even blacks to a certain extent have? If I show up at a Protestant church some one would have me ditch digging in some union. Why is there no Catholic networking for good paying jobs and loans ect….? Or do I just not know of them?