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Author Topic: Other Forums for Traditional Catholics  (Read 7903 times)

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Offline ascanio1

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Re: Other Forums for Traditional Catholics
« Reply #45 on: November 11, 2019, 06:32:06 AM »
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  • ... It is far too common to find conciliar Catholics who believe that Jews are saved through Judaism and do not need to accept Christ.
    One can only be saved through Jesus and only if one dies in state of Grace. This is a dogmatic cornerstone of the Truth. This is why even protestants and Orthodox Christians cannot be saved, let alone jews or muslims.

    This is actually a significant symptom of the crisis in the Church, although it might not be as apparent as the problems with the Mass.
    From my understanding, the problem with the Mass is less serious than the problem with the renunciation of our Lord's kingship and with ecuмenism and inter faith dialogue. In my city they now practice Eucharistical Hospitality. It means that a Catholic priest can (and do) offer Holy Communion to Orthodox, Protestants, etc.. as long as they have been baptized.

    In fact, it was this Eucharistical Hospitality absurdity that caused my doubts in accpeting an SSPX Eucharist. I have been so horrified by this ... heresy ? ... that I am terrified to make the same error in the other direction.
    Tommaso
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    Offline ascanio1

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    Re: Other Forums for Traditional Catholics
    « Reply #46 on: November 11, 2019, 06:56:46 AM »
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  • Thank you, Tommaso, for answering my question related to homeschooling your daughter, supplying the reasons for deciding against it, though you gave it consideration.
    Sorry if it took me some time to revert but, very coincidentally, a schooling problem kept me busy! I have been defending myself from my daughter school's (Opus Dei) WhatsApp "fathers' group" who suggest that I be blocked from posting comments that are oppressive and non-inclusive (I suggested that we pray for individual with inverted sɛҳuąƖ preferences so that they may be corrected).



    About your first reason, I wonder that you would believe you need a Jesuit priest to come and live-in to your home to educate your daughter. I am sure that you and your wife would have enough skill and knowledge to do it yourselves; your Orthodox wife would be able to teach her everything except religion and possibly history (when your daughter is older).
    i. I have little time (*)
    ii. My wife does not feel sufficiently erudite for the task. We discussed using technical props but she is afraid to leave our daughter behind in academic topics.

    (*) I work all day and, recently, I am devoting all my free time to self-catechism and to this community as I am re-verting to Catholicism



    About the second, I suggest you completely disregard "Three, very conservative, early-age behaviouralists". Indeed "peers socialization" is far from paramount in character development. Actually it could exactly the reverse. In fact homeschooled children tend to be the better socialised, spontaneous and at ease with people across a broad range of ages.
    Kindly, would you help me in locating literature that is based on scientific studies that support your understanding? I am very much interested as this was a key concern. My wife and I like to go in depth into the scientific testing methods used to reach conclusions.


    HSLDA | Home Schooling - Italy
    https://hslda.org/content/hs/international/Italy/default.asp

    Traditional Catholic Homeschooling | Traditional Catholic Priest
    http://www.traditionalcatholicpriest.com/2015/08/19/traditional-catholic-homeschooling/
    Thank you for these links. I am finishing to read some links that a few members of this community recommended and I will read these links.
    Tommaso
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    Offline ascanio1

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    Re: Other Forums for Traditional Catholics
    « Reply #47 on: November 11, 2019, 07:26:09 AM »
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  • I feel sad that Fisheaters has closed their Babel forum. I posted the catechism in the Chocktaw language. there were always between 150 and 175 views for every post. At the end it had over 75500 views. That is over 75000 views of people learning about the Catholic Faith (pre-Vatican II) in the Chocktaw language. 
    That is another priority for me: cathechism for adults.

    I looked for catechism threads in this community but found only five correspondences and the best one was this one: https://www.cathinfo.com/sspx-resistance-news/fr-mcdonald-catechism-new-zealand/msg656830/#msg656830

    Is it recommendable?

    In fact, I will start a new thread asking for advice on catechism for adults.
    Tommaso
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    Offline Nadir

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    Re: Other Forums for Traditional Catholics
    « Reply #48 on: November 11, 2019, 08:30:15 PM »
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  • Sorry if it took me some time to revert but, very coincidentally, a schooling problem kept me busy! I have been defending myself from my daughter school's (Opus Dei) WhatsApp "fathers' group" who suggest that I be blocked from posting comments that are oppressive and non-inclusive (I suggested that we pray for individual with inverted sɛҳuąƖ preferences so that they may be corrected).


    i. I have little time (*)
    ii. My wife does not feel sufficiently erudite for the task. We discussed using technical props but she is afraid to leave our daughter behind in academic topics.

    (*) I work all day and, recently, I am devoting all my free time to self-catechism and to this community as I am re-verting to Catholicism
    Regarding i)
    Often we both overestimate and underestimate the time needed to homeschool our children.
    - underestimate, because homeschooling (informal) takes all your child's waking hours.
    - Overestimate because we think it will take as long in formal study to teach one child as it does to teach a group of, say, 25.
    - In homeschooling you make your own hours convenient to you..

    Regarding 2)
    All the mothers I know who homeschool/ed feel/ felt, at one time or another, but especially in starting, incompetent. But in order to start it is at least essential for both parents to see the necessity, and sometimes that takes many bad experiences within the school system; and sadly these abound as you are discovering. Our eldest child was three years in school, our second two years, when at last we reached the point when we decided to withdraw them. There was much more work for me in them attending school than there was in educating them ourselves at home. And so much peace of mind.
    To be continued...
    Help of Christians, guard our land from assault or inward stain,
    Let it be what God has planned, His new Eden where You reign.

    +RIP 2024

    Offline Nadir

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    Re: Other Forums for Traditional Catholics
    « Reply #49 on: November 11, 2019, 09:22:26 PM »
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  • Kindly, would you help me in locating literature that is based on scientific studies that support your understanding? I am very much interested as this was a key concern. My wife and I like to go in depth into the scientific testing methods used to reach conclusions.

    Thank you for these links. I am finishing to read some links that a few members of this community recommended and I will read these links.
    Tommaso, my understanding of "peer socialisation" is acquired, not through any academic studies, but through observation and my own personal experience with my family, neighbours, friends, other homeschoolers.

    The most common question homeschoolers hear is What about socialisation? For every family there are different needs. A large family will have different needs from a small family. We had a homeschooling group with whom we shared activities, ideas, skills, newsletters. Children attend various sport or dance, craft or cookery or other activities. The opportunities are endless.

    When it was time to enrol our eldest in a short course at TAFE in order to matriculate, I was anxious as to our chances, but was told by the head of the school, "Don't worry. Our best students are homeschoolers." 

    There is no reason to think a child would be behind academically, as once they are competent in literacy, and sufficiently disciplined, they can order their own studies, under your direction of course, as head of the home. Our children were very pleased with themselves when they achieved this.

    This article which I found on the web gives examples of some studies.
    Homeschooled children are far more socially engaged than you might think
    http://theconversation.com/homeschooled-children-are-far-more-socially-engaged-than-you-might-think-111353
    Good work with all your own studies. I admire your sincere seeking after Truth.
    Help of Christians, guard our land from assault or inward stain,
    Let it be what God has planned, His new Eden where You reign.

    +RIP 2024


    Offline ascanio1

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    Re: Other Forums for Traditional Catholics
    « Reply #50 on: November 12, 2019, 03:03:45 PM »
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  • ... But in order to start it is at least essential for both parents to see the necessity, and sometimes that takes many bad experiences within the school system;
    We, so far, have reached the temporary decision to home school our daughter's catchism and remove her from school during those hours. This will not eliminate the bad influences.

    We are not challenged by exam and testing scores. We are confident that home schooling can produce superlative academic results.

    What challenges our choices are two main, non academic, factors:
    1. Socialization, we understand, is paramount for child character development and socialization skills.
    2. She enjoys her school time and we feel bad to take away her friends as they are rarely available during the afternoons and only seldom during weekends.

    You cite endless opportunities but we have none. Besides, our daughter is a single child.

    We are open to read literature where comparative tests, under measurable and repeatable conditions, show that schooling is not beneficial to character development and socialization skills.


    Good work with all your own studies. I admire your sincere seeking after Truth.
    I am compelled and propelled in my studies and search for truth by my knowledge of my inadequacy as a catechist teacher and a spiritual guide for my daughter. My state as a father burdens me with the responsibility of my daughters chances of salvation. If I would give my life for her on this earth, it follows naturally to be willing to give my life for her in Heaven too.

    Faith in Jesus and love for my Wife and daughter spark my flame to learn more every morning, as I wake up and see them next to me. Heck! I ask my wife to marry me again, every morning. ;D my Wife says that we, Italians, are too passionate! LOL  :laugh1:

    Love and faith can move mountains.
    Tommaso
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    Offline Nadir

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    Re: Other Forums for Traditional Catholics
    « Reply #51 on: November 13, 2019, 12:53:31 PM »
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  • We, so far, have reached the temporary decision to home school our daughter's catchism and remove her from school during those hours. This will not eliminate the bad influences.
    I wish you well in this venture. It will be a very interesting and fullfilling experience. I wonder what will be the response from the school.

    Quote
    What challenges our choices are two main, non academic, factors:
    1. Socialization, we understand, is paramount for child character development and socialization skills.
    2. She enjoys her school time and we feel bad to take away her friends as they are rarely available during the afternoons and only seldom during weekends
    1.Agreed
    2. Very understandable, especially being a lone child.


    Quote
    You cite endless opportunities but we have none.
    Isn't it ironic that we lived very isolated from towns and cities, yet 25 - 30 years ago when we started out there were many opportunities. I have found that in Italy homeschooling is almost unthinkable. I feel sure that the opportunities are there but not so easy to find.


    Quote
    We are open to read literature where comparative tests, under measurable and repeatable conditions, show that schooling is not beneficial to character development and socialization skills

    It is not my contention that schooling is not beneficial, but that education by the parents in the home setting is (possibly equally or more) beneficial, providing the parents are balanced, loving, responsible people. Schools tend to confine children to one age group, which can limit their social,skills. BUt the most dangerous threat to healthy socialisation is the taking away children's innocence which is so commonplace, even in so-called Catholic schools.
     
    Quote
    my Wife says that we, Italians, are too passionate! LOL  
    Being married to an Italian I would have to agree with her. :cheers: 
    Help of Christians, guard our land from assault or inward stain,
    Let it be what God has planned, His new Eden where You reign.

    +RIP 2024

    Offline ascanio1

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    Re: Other Forums for Traditional Catholics
    « Reply #52 on: November 14, 2019, 05:47:40 PM »
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  • I wish you well in this venture. It will be a very interesting and fullfilling experience. I wonder what will be the response from the school.
    They did not like it but agreed.

    Isn't it ironic that we lived very isolated from towns and cities, yet 25 - 30 years ago when we started out there were many opportunities. I have found that in Italy homeschooling is almost unthinkable. I feel sure that the opportunities are there but not so easy to find.
    I don't think it is so much a specific country as much as it is about a specific society and how it progressed. Families are too busy and do not have enough time to invest in their children. I am blessed that my wife - happily - chose to give up her career to raise our daughter. Not many can afford this and socialization outside "child parking" opportunities becomes rare. School. Sport. Music lessons. Anything that allows parents to spend their time at work or elsewhere.

    Schools tend to confine children to one age group, which can limit their social,skills. BUt the most dangerous threat to healthy socialisation is the taking away children's innocence which is so commonplace, even in so-called Catholic schools.
    I cannot agree more! Children need to grow up at their own pace and in their own time!


    Being married to an Italian I would have to agree with her. :cheers:
    :o oh... mammamia! I am so sorry for you! ;D

    But we are going OT and disturbing the purpose of the thread. I do not want to incur in the wrath of the moderators!

    Glad to continue in a more appropriate space.
    Tommaso
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    Offline Nadir

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    Re: Other Forums for Traditional Catholics
    « Reply #53 on: November 14, 2019, 09:29:00 PM »
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  • :o oh... mammamia! I am so sorry for you! ;D.
    You get used to it and adjust after 37 years!


    Quote
    Glad to continue in a more appropriate space
    Napoli or Chioggia? :cheers:
    Help of Christians, guard our land from assault or inward stain,
    Let it be what God has planned, His new Eden where You reign.

    +RIP 2024

    Offline forlorn

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    Re: Other Forums for Traditional Catholics
    « Reply #54 on: November 15, 2019, 05:13:05 AM »
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  • Schools tend to confine children to one age group, which can limit their social,skills. BUt the most dangerous threat to healthy socialisation is the taking away children's innocence which is so commonplace, even in so-called Catholic schools.
    That's actually a really interesting point. As I recall, the concept of teenagers or adolescents didn't actually exist until the majority of young people started going to high school. Before that, young people spent their teenage years around adults, doing apprenticeships or working with their parents on the farm or what have you. Teenagers are very much disposed towards copying the people around them, in the past that meant the person teaching them their trade, but with the advent of high school it meant copying other teens. That sort of isolation induced sub-culture is the case of teenage rebellion and counter-culture.

     
    Quote
    https://massculturalcouncil.org/creative-youth-development/boston-youth-arts-evaluation-project/brief-history-of-adolescence-youth-development/
    It wasn’t until 1904 that the first president of the American Psychological Association, G. Stanley Hall, was credited with discovering adolescence (Henig, 2010, p. 4). In his study entitled “Adolescence,” he described this new developmental phase that came about due to social changes at the turn of the 20th century. Because of the influence of Child Labor Laws and universal education, youth had newfound time in their teenage years when the responsibilities of adulthood were not forced upon them as quickly as in the past. Hall did not have a very positive view of this phase, and he believed that society needed to “burn out the vestiges of evil in their nature” (G. Stanley Hall, 2010). Therefore, adolescence was a time of overcoming one’s beast-like impulses as one was engulfed in a period of “storm and stress” (Lerner & Israeloff, 2005, p. 4). He identified three key aspects of this phase: mood disruptions, conflict with parents, and risky behavior.

    Offline Nadir

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    Re: Other Forums for Traditional Catholics
    « Reply #55 on: November 16, 2019, 04:39:17 AM »
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  • That's actually a really interesting point. As I recall, the concept of teenagers or adolescents didn't actually exist until the majority of young people started going to high school. Before that, young people spent their teenage years around adults, doing apprenticeships or working with their parents on the farm or what have you. Teenagers are very much disposed towards copying the people around them, in the past that meant the person teaching them their trade, but with the advent of high school it meant copying other teens. That sort of isolation induced sub-culture is the case of teenage rebellion and counter-culture.

    You are right. My husband started working full time in  his father's business just prior to turning 13 and previously to that he had worked in out of school hours in his grandfather's patisserie in their home.

    I declined the opportunity to stay in the school system and started work at 14 years, though I returned to study 5 years later, when I was ready for it.

    These experiences did not hold us back. We never thought of ourselves as teenagers or adolescents - an entirely modern invention. Nowadays the teenage years seem, for some, to go on for decades. And to what good?
    Help of Christians, guard our land from assault or inward stain,
    Let it be what God has planned, His new Eden where You reign.

    +RIP 2024