Author Topic: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There (Read 59736 times)

Stubborn · « **Reply #30 on:** September 23, 2013, 03:18:02 PM »

Quote from: Matthew

Quote from: Matto
Every once in a while I see Matthew post something that I think is liberal, but it is not very often. I called another poster here a liberal the other day, but thinking about it more I thought I was wrong and apologized.

Huh?

I'd like to know what you're referring to. I don't have a liberal bone in my body.

You know, if a person (or a group of two dozen people) starts throwing the word "liberal" around to all and sundry, it begins to lose its meaning...

You did right in apologizing.

Must be that remark you made about collecting aluminum cans you tree hugger you! LOL

Stubborn · « **Reply #31 on:** September 23, 2013, 03:19:17 PM »

Quote from: parentsfortruth

Quote from: Stubborn
FE deserves JayneK to be moderator.

It might be a dead forum before we know it.

Exactly ha ha!

Matto · « **Reply #32 on:** September 23, 2013, 03:20:33 PM »

Quote from: Matthew

I'd like to know what you're referring to. I don't have a liberal bone in my body.

OK. Right now I can only remember one thing you wrote that I thought was liberal. I forget which thread it was on, but you said that you think young men should leave the home to become independent instead of living with their parents until marriage. I thought that this was liberal. You have written and I have read a lot of things that you wrote. I think it is pretty good that I can only remember one liberal thing you wrote, and it was not really that liberal. I bet if someone checked my posts, they would find more than one liberal one.

Matthew · « **Reply #33 on:** September 23, 2013, 03:24:16 PM »

Quote from: Matto

Quote from: Matthew

I'd like to know what you're referring to. I don't have a liberal bone in my body.

OK. Right now I can only remember one thing you wrote that I thought was liberal. I forget which thread it was on, but you said that you think young men should leave the home to become independent instead of living with their parents until marriage. I thought that this was liberal. You have written and I have read a lot of things that you wrote. I think it is pretty good that I can only remember one liberal thing you wrote, and it was not really that liberal. I bet if someone checked my posts, they would find more than one liberal one.

That's not liberal.

Ok, I've decided to do it. I'm starting that thread I was thinking about. Stay tuned...

Gaudium in Space · « **Reply #34 on:** September 23, 2013, 03:27:21 PM »

Quote from: parentsfortruth

Quote from: Stubborn
FE deserves JayneK to be moderator.

It might be a dead forum before we know it.

From a few of the FE threads I've looked at, it seemed that Jayne was already a defacto moderator. I dont have the thread(s) docuмented but I recall a few people complaining about that. If I remember correctly, GMU Alex may have been one of them.

Matthew · « **Reply #35 on:** September 23, 2013, 03:35:54 PM »

I have a couple of posts to add to the discussion.

If we're discussing JayneK, what could be better (or more accurate) than words from her own mouth?

Quote from: JayneK

Quote from: christulsa123
Jayne, if Vox asked you to be the Moderator, would you be willing?

I would give her a list of the people who would be better choices than me. It would include you.
There is no reason for me to be a moderator when there are so many people who would do a better job.

I suppose I could not refuse her if she asked me, but I think it would be a bad idea to ask me. I could make another list of reasons why it is a bad idea.

Quote from: JayneK

Quote from: christulsa123
Jayne. Jayne. You ARE ok!! Give yourself a hug. You are ok. You are good enough, smart enough, and doggonit people like you (Stuart Smalley, SNL)!!

Chris, it is flattering that you see me as capable of doing this job but it is not something I am suited for. Many people understandably associate my posts with debates and controversy. This is not an image that one wants associated with a moderator. My ability to make good decisions would be negatively influenced by my reluctance to hurt people's feelings. A significant number of people find me irritating. I would be uncomfortable being in a position of authority over men. I would also feel pretty weird making judgments about people who are better Catholics than me, which is virtually everyone on this forum.

It is reasonable to put some thought into who be might good moderators in case Vox decides to go that route and asks for opinions. It is not reasonable to think of me. I am not being coy or wanting to be persuaded. I mean it.

2Vermont · « **Reply #36 on:** September 23, 2013, 03:48:15 PM »

Quote from: Matthew

After carefully re-considering it, yes. It's accurate.

Words mean things. When you say, "Fisheaters is a liberal forum", one assumes that liberalism generally dominates there.

And I believe that's simply the truth.

For example, if you were to start a thread entitled "Should I go to public beaches?" most people are going to tell you to go for it, and the few people who point out the occasion for sin will be booed off the stage, castigated, etc.

As further evidence, countless anti-Liberals have been banned from the forum. Not just one individual (which might be explained as a personality issue or conflict -- a problem with the individual rather than his position), but dozens of good Catholics have been booted from that forum.

So although I wish it weren't true, I must conclude that FE is indeed a liberal-leaning forum. You just can't have a forum that's diametrically opposed to its owner.

(That's why I always tell people to not worry about CathInfo becoming liberal!)

OK, so now I'm defending FE (sorta)...lol.

I honestly would not characterize that forum as "liberal" (if we're looking solely at the posters' relationships with Traditional Catholicism). That "honor" belongs to CAF. However, compared to here? I can see why some would think it is liberal.

I think a large majority of the active posters over there are at least SSPX-traditional. Then there are closet SV's or those who sympathize with the SV view or those who wish to learn more about SV (but know they can't discuss it). Then there are the not-so-closet liberal posters (including CAF liberal aka NO posters).

I tend to think that perhaps outsiders looking in might consider FE "liberal" because these very vocal posters are given full reign. I knew something was wrong when a very vocal CAF/NO poster bad mouthed Vox, was banned, and then Vox reinstated him. It reminded me of the crap I saw on CAF. When that happened I knew I probably wouldn't be around for long.

2Vermont · « **Reply #37 on:** September 23, 2013, 03:53:24 PM »

Quote from: Matthew

I have a couple of posts to add to the discussion.

If we're discussing JayneK, what could be better (or more accurate) than words from her own mouth?

Quote from: JayneK

Quote from: christulsa123
Jayne, if Vox asked you to be the Moderator, would you be willing?

I would give her a list of the people who would be better choices than me. It would include you.
There is no reason for me to be a moderator when there are so many people who would do a better job.

I suppose I could not refuse her if she asked me, but I think it would be a bad idea to ask me. I could make another list of reasons why it is a bad idea.

Quote from: JayneK
Quote from: christulsa123
Jayne. Jayne. You ARE ok!! Give yourself a hug. You are ok. You are good enough, smart enough, and doggonit people like you (Stuart Smalley, SNL)!!

Chris, it is flattering that you see me as capable of doing this job but it is not something I am suited for. Many people understandably associate my posts with debates and controversy. This is not an image that one wants associated with a moderator. My ability to make good decisions would be negatively influenced by my reluctance to hurt people's feelings. A significant number of people find me irritating. I would be uncomfortable being in a position of authority over men. I would also feel pretty weird making judgments about people who are better Catholics than me, which is virtually everyone on this forum.

It is reasonable to put some thought into who be might good moderators in case Vox decides to go that route and asks for opinions. It is not reasonable to think of me. I am not being coy or wanting to be persuaded. I mean it.

Like I have said before on this forum, she and I were like oil and water, but I saw these posts of hers and her remarks do seem genuine. I respect the fact that she sees that she is not a good person to act as moderator. However, I find it ironic because much of what bugged me was that she seemed to act as one naturally.

St George · « **Reply #38 on:** September 23, 2013, 04:01:40 PM »

Quote from: Mithrandylan

Of course, it's very likely that Vox is simply saying this to get her daily bread. Look at all the replies-- they're all based in sentimentality. Not a single one of those replies correspons to the reality of FE, which is a terrific moral scandal and a stumbling block to traditional Catholicism. Sentimental people are easy to get money out of. That might be the entire purpose of the thread. I noticed a few people wrote "I'll send more money, just don't shut it down!"

As I mentioned earlier, some people will plead to keep the main site up because of it's catechetical value. While I've never found anything objectionable on the FE main site, I've also found nothing on there that can't be found somewhere else. In other words, the only real benefit to the main site is that it is very well organized. It may be a worthwhile venture for some actual traditional Catholics to undertake a similar project in organizing that type of material.

I suspect anyone who brought up the sordid past of FE would quickly be banned or shredded by JayneK.

2Vermont · « **Reply #39 on:** September 23, 2013, 04:08:15 PM »

Quote from: St George

Quote from: Mithrandylan
Of course, it's very likely that Vox is simply saying this to get her daily bread. Look at all the replies-- they're all based in sentimentality. Not a single one of those replies correspons to the reality of FE, which is a terrific moral scandal and a stumbling block to traditional Catholicism. Sentimental people are easy to get money out of. That might be the entire purpose of the thread. I noticed a few people wrote "I'll send more money, just don't shut it down!"

As I mentioned earlier, some people will plead to keep the main site up because of it's catechetical value. While I've never found anything objectionable on the FE main site, I've also found nothing on there that can't be found somewhere else. In other words, the only real benefit to the main site is that it is very well organized. It may be a worthwhile venture for some actual traditional Catholics to undertake a similar project in organizing that type of material.

I suspect anyone who brought up the sordid past of FE would quickly be banned or shredded by JayneK.

I believe this is why ggreg was banned.

2Vermont · « **Reply #40 on:** September 23, 2013, 04:20:24 PM »

Quote from: Matthew

Well, the game is to "out" them using Catholic doctrine. It will be good for the rest of us. Look what happened to the SSPX! They apparently forgot what Modernism is, and how bad the Novus Ordo is.

.

I am confused. I thought this site was mostly SSPXers.

Someone help a newbie out (both to this site and to traddy talk).

Capt McQuigg · « **Reply #41 on:** September 23, 2013, 04:21:29 PM »

Whether it happens or not, FishEaters closing would be a good thing.

wallflower · « **Reply #42 on:** September 23, 2013, 04:28:10 PM »

In my mind this is the quote of Jayne's that is most telling. The personality things can be overcome but this kind of agenda cannot.

Quote

It is the only place where Ecclesia Dei trads can express our views without being shouted down or moderated away. Since ED is the growing aspect of traditional Catholicism, that is a rather important contribution to make.

It was her very vocal wish from the beginning which is why, as the tide turned that way, people looked to her as having Vox in her back pocket. Jayne came around wanting trads to be seen in "a better light" and include conservatives and lo and behold Vox started bringing the hammer down and complaining about how trads are viewed. As much as it was denied that the trads were being targeted, they were.

Unbeknownst to her (at least at first, she must know now) there are differences in principle that make it very difficult for Ecclesia Dei types and trads to get along. You have to be uneducated on the issues or naïve to think they can co-exist because it runs deeper than personalities or niceness or virtue, it's about principle. They will always be at odds no matter how nice they are (although it doesn't hurt to try). So as Ecclesia Deis gained a voice, championed by Jayne, trads lost theirs and had to be content to howl in the wild or go elsewhere.

I don't have a problem with Ecclesia Deis or conservatives as such as long as they are in an environment where they realize they still have a lot to learn. If it's seen as a destination in itself rather than a stepping stone, then the clash of principles really becomes a problem. Vox seems to have a soft spot for new reverts which is likely why the Ecclesia Deis were systematically given the platform. I just wish she knew that she does them no favors by removing the trads who would challenge them, however brusquely, to grow past that.

Matto · « **Reply #43 on:** September 23, 2013, 04:28:47 PM »

Quote from: Capt McQuigg

Whether it happens or not, FishEaters closing would be a good thing.

I don't think it would be a good thing. If FE closed and with IA closed, the posters there might come here and try to turn Cathinfo into another FE.

St George · « **Reply #44 on:** September 23, 2013, 04:44:08 PM »

Quote from: Matto

Quote from: Capt McQuigg
Whether it happens or not, FishEaters closing would be a good thing.

I don't think it would be a good thing. If FE closed and with IA closed, the posters there might come here and try to turn Cathinfo into another FE.

I suspect their first stop for the conservatives will be SD, the rest to Phat.

Vox should just give up and give the whole works to SD. It would be just rewards for Kaesekopf's work.

ed: spelling