Author Topic: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There (Read 71674 times)

St Magnus · « **Reply #255 on:** October 06, 2013, 03:17:38 PM »

Quote from: MaterDominici

Quote from: St Magnus
How can anyone be sued for slander or defamation in this situation anyhow ? We are talking about posts using user id's, not full names.

Among other things, she'd have to prove malice on your part, so be nice in your criticisms. :smile:

Noted.

I did mention a need to pray for her !

Mithrandylan · « **Reply #256 on:** October 06, 2013, 03:21:25 PM »

Quote from: wallflower

Quote from: Larry
Can I say something(and I'm sure there are going to be lots of thumbs downs for this post)?

Has anyone considered that Jayne is very sincere? I've had tons of disagreements with her, but I think she truly means what she says. I think she truly believes, for instance, that if the Pope ordered Catholics to stop attending Traditional Liturgies, she would have to obey. Do I agree with her? No way! But I remember myself 20 years ago or so, and I probably would have agreed with her, because I was misinformed. So she really believes what she says, and I think is sincere in wanting to follow Our Lord.

As for the whole Vox/Impy thing: I disagreed with the way that whole situation was handled,and publicly posted as much. But I don't think that regurgitating the details over and over again is helpful for anyone. Impy is a person created in the image and likeness of God. God loves him. Why don't we pray for him? Does anyone have any clue on how he must have felt when all of that dirt was dug up on him? Pray for him. Don't condemn him. I know I've committed many sins in my life that I would be aghast if they came to light. I'm no better than him. Can any of us claim to be?

And that is all. Please pray for me.

Larry, I noticed your posts over there were quite good. I didn't know you had an account here too.

I have struggled openly with whether or not to trust Jayne is sincere. This is nothing I haven't said to her but there are several patterns of behavior that I have come not to trust. Cross-posting is one of them. Many times in the past few years that she has been on trad forums, Jayne posts what one says about the other then sits back and tsk-tsks the results. Not once. Not twice. Many times, and with full knowledge that it will lead no where good. A lot of people read both places, it's taken for granted, there's no need for a self-appointed messenger. It's like the third party who drops a bomb between two countries and lets them go at it while she sits innocently reminding everyone that it's against the rules to bash other forums.

This time it was a new line to pray for enemies. Now that she has dropped the facade of trying to get along here she is full on supporting the idea that people here are enemies. Strong word. One that no one here has ever used and very convenient of Jayne, considering Vox is struggling with the idea that people hate her personally when most people simply have a problem with her being in such an influential, leadership position. Way to cement this perception, knowing full well that it would cause even more disordered emotion and that many have stated clearly that it is false.

I've said for a long time that Jayne is either very shrewd or very ... Unintelligent. I don't really believe it's the latter so yes I have a problem trusting Jayne. Every single time there is a problem she is right in the thick of it. The possibility of it being coincidence becomes less probable or reasonable with each passing year.

No one has condemned Impy, only his desire to go through with his sex change and have it acknowledged by the trad community in a coming out party. Again it's not so much him and his issues but trying to pass the ideas off as traditional Catholic that is the problem. As long as he retains his female name and symbol over there, they keep it going themselves.

Good points, Wallflower, though all are ultimately irrelevant (whether or not Jayne is sincere or in good will) when she is demonstrably wrong. Wrongs are to be addressed and corrected, whether they proceed from ignorance OR malice.

St Magnus · « **Reply #257 on:** October 06, 2013, 03:21:29 PM »

Quote from: Mithrandylan

Quote from: St Magnus
christulsa123 egging her on:

Ok I'm brainstorming here.

1. Contact CI owner and ask for the libel/defamation to stop.

2. Keep doing that. Docuмent everything.

3. Write the owner and ask, a couple of times.

4. Have an attorney write them a letter.

5. If the libel/defamation continues, talk to attorneys associated with the SSPX, FSSP, etc. Consider a class-action lawsuit.

6. Be as peaceable and conciliatory as possible. If the CI owner is not, that helps build your case.

7. You can always start in small claims court.

Hopefully you can avoid a lawsuit and get the CI owner to stop supporting libel/defamation. If done rightly, this could help the traditional movement, and help the online aspect of the movement as well.
http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/index.php/topic,3460942.260.html

btw, this person claims to be a member of a SSPX chapel

How can anyone be sued for slander or defamation in this situation anyhow ? We are talking about posts using user id's, not full names.

I'm not an attorney, but would think an honest attorney wouldn't wasted his time with it.

That's just the thing, Magnus. A forum owner CANNOT be sued for libel committed by a poster. It's the same reason that 3M can't be sued if someone uses their paper to write a libelous tract. A blog is different. Theoretically, a given poster could be threatened with legal action on account of libel, but as you say, this is viewed by most as a waste of time.

Good deal.

I figure it's all a scare tactic anyhow. And like I mentioned, her own little thread on CA is no different. Several posts there use full names. I think she ought to think about that

2Vermont · « **Reply #258 on:** October 06, 2013, 03:32:19 PM »

But I tell you, sue your enemies. (Matthew 5:44)

St Magnus · « **Reply #259 on:** October 06, 2013, 03:37:44 PM »

Quote from: 2Vermont

But I tell you, sue your enemies. (Matthew 5:44)

Ursus · « **Reply #260 on:** October 06, 2013, 04:09:07 PM »

Another complication going down that road is the forum owner is a "public" figure as in the forum/moderation/person are all interconnected. Forum owner freely shares private information inviting discussion.

Matthew · « **Reply #261 on:** October 06, 2013, 04:11:19 PM »

Here is my take on the matter --

Let's pray that Vox finds a nice, well-paying but time-consuming job (so that she no longer needs to make a living off the forum and its people/donations), and/or that she finds a priest to moderate and run the forum so she can keep the income but the bad influence of FE can be mitigated, etc.

Simply wishing for FE to be "closed down" is basically saying you want Vox to be penniless and on the street. Is that really what you want? I certainly don't. (Unlike certain traditional Catholics who would see no problem with putting a whole family with small children on the street... True story!)

What I want is for God's will to be done in the matter. Nothing more, nothing less. But I can't, in good conscience, say that God wants a laywoman like Vox -- with all the traits she writes about own self on her About Tracy page -- to run the largest Catholic forum with the label "traditional".

So let's pray that God's providence finds a way to get the current FE (as we know it) "off the air" one way or another, without crushing Vox or rendering her penniless or worse. Vox, after all, represents a real human being who has a soul to save.

She's not a concept, a demon, or a monster. Nor is she among the condemned. She is still valid matter for Charity.

After all, we want only the good of all parties.

2Vermont · « **Reply #262 on:** October 06, 2013, 06:02:15 PM »

Quote from: St Magnus

Quote from: 2Vermont
But I tell you, sue your enemies. (Matthew 5:44)

Aw, we've been down-thumbed. Apparently someone needs a sense of humor.

Devekut · « **Reply #263 on:** October 06, 2013, 11:47:20 PM »

I find it very telling that Jayne is trying to compare Vox to Mel Gibson by pointing out his friendship with Jodie Foster. Yes, Mr. Gibson is friends with a lesbian but I don't recall a time when he out in a public forum to support her sins. I believe this is a perfect example of "hate the sin, love the sinner".

roscoe · « **Reply #264 on:** October 07, 2013, 12:41:33 AM »

I have not followed this topic but knowing a ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ & being friends with one are 2 different things. What do u mean by 'his friendship'? I am not a fan of M Gibson or his father--- who is after C's Rampolla, Del Val & by implication Popes Leo & St Pius. :roll-laugh1:

Mithrandylan · « **Reply #265 on:** October 07, 2013, 01:26:44 AM »

Quote from: Matthew

Here is my take on the matter --

Simply wishing for FE to be "closed down" is basically saying you want Vox to be penniless and on the street. Is that really what you want? I certainly don't. (Unlike certain traditional Catholics who would see no problem with putting a whole family with small children on the street... True story!)

Huh? How about wanting FE to shut down because it's an anti-Catholic site full of immoral, sɛҳuąƖ and anti-Catholic scandal that is subverting the traditionalist cause? I think it's the height of melodrama to think that the shutting down of FE means Vox goes penniless out into the street.

Quote

What I want is for God's will to be done in the matter. Nothing more, nothing less. But I can't, in good conscience, say that God wants a laywoman like Vox -- with all the traits she writes about own self on her About Tracy page -- to run the largest Catholic forum with the label "traditional".

Then shut the damned thing down!

Quote

So let's pray that God's providence finds a way to get the current FE (as we know it) "off the air" one way or another, without crushing Vox or rendering her penniless or worse. Vox, after all, represents a real human being who has a soul to save.

A soul that is objectively imperiled by promoting and protecting these scandals. Shut it down.

Quote

She's not a concept, a demon, or a monster. Nor is she among the condemned. She is still valid matter for Charity.

After all, we want only the good of all parties.

Which is precisely why it should be shut down.

StCeciliasGirl · « **Reply #266 on:** October 07, 2013, 02:03:55 AM »

Quote from: wallflower

I have struggled openly with whether or not to trust Jayne is sincere. This is nothing I haven't said to her but there are several patterns of behavior that I have come not to trust. Cross-posting is one of them. Many times in the past few years that she has been on trad forums, Jayne posts what one says about the other then sits back and tsk-tsks the results. Not once. Not twice. Many times, and with full knowledge that it will lead no where good. A lot of people read both places, it's taken for granted, there's no need for a self-appointed messenger. It's like the third party who drops a bomb between two countries and lets them go at it while she sits innocently reminding everyone that it's against the rules to bash other forums.

This time it was a new line to pray for enemies. Now that she has dropped the facade of trying to get along here she is full on supporting the idea that people here are enemies. Strong word. One that no one here has ever used and very convenient of Jayne, considering Vox is struggling with the idea that people hate her personally when most people simply have a problem with her being in such an influential, leadership position. Way to cement this perception, knowing full well that it would cause even more disordered emotion and that many have stated clearly that it is false.

I've said for a long time that Jayne is either very shrewd or very ... Unintelligent. I don't really believe it's the latter so yes I have a problem trusting Jayne. Every single time there is a problem she is right in the thick of it. The possibility of it being coincidence becomes less probable or reasonable with each passing year.

I cut the Impy part out. No pun intended.

This post needs to be repeated. :applause:

Enemies? Hardly. I simply don't care, any more than I would care for a 12yo boy's Pokemon forum: not enemies, just not interested. Not praying for them either, though, because I'm not sure who I'd be asking intercession for.

I just can't back down on an avid shunning of liars and ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖs, which was what happened in April and May to cause an exodus. Love the sinner not the sin? Not really. "Dust off your feet and leave". cuм dilectione hominum et odio vitiorum has been tortured into some "coexist" ecuмenical crap and entirely lost its meaning, which the Sodomites take full advantage of, but it seems pretty clear that St. Augustine meant to live your life "with love of mankind and hatred of sins", not to love "each man" who lives in a state of unrepentant sin.

In fact, we're not to be yoked with sinners, so we certainly can't EMBRACE the sinner in his (or her) sin, as happened on FE. That was disgusting!

StCeciliasGirl · « **Reply #267 on:** October 07, 2013, 02:19:56 AM »

Mithrandylan's spot on.
And anyway, THIS WHOLE THREAD started because Vox wanted to shut her forum down. HER OWN WORDS. I'm sorry she was ~~panhandling~~ ~~depressed~~ [excuse] when she said them, that's unfortunate, but shutting down that cesspool of Sodom was HER idea, and about the best idea she's had since "supporting" Sparky. Spanky. ...Impy. Whatever.

MaterDominici · « **Reply #268 on:** October 07, 2013, 04:56:13 AM »

Quote from: StCeciliasGirl

Mithrandylan's spot on.
And anyway, THIS WHOLE THREAD started because Vox wanted to shut her forum down. HER OWN WORDS. I'm sorry she was ~~panhandling~~ ~~depressed~~ [excuse] when she said them, that's unfortunate, but shutting down that cesspool of Sodom was HER idea, and about the best idea she's had since "supporting" Sparky. Spanky. ...Impy. Whatever.

You do have a point. If she said herself that she wanted to shut her forum down, there's not much room for complaint when people agree with what she suggested.

AlligatorDicax · « **Reply #269 on:** October 07, 2013, 06:55:29 AM »

Quote from: Matto (Oct 5, 2013, 5:49 pm)

I have heard so many scandalous things about Fisheaters that I am surprised people still go there anymore.

It seems that many Web pages must be still linking to FE, because FE often has its pages showing up high in the initial results of Web searches. I suspect that quite a lot of "Catholic" Web sites or blogs list FE in their "traditional Catholic links" pages or columns. Maybe especially those neocon "Catholic" Web sites or blogs that customarily use the phrase "extraordinary form" favorably & frequently, and maybe even more so if they routinely abbreviate it as "EF".

It's common for people to underestimate the effort that's needed to keep a Web site up to date, or a blog fresh. If a Web query finds a "Catholic" site based, e.g., on the reference material it contains, many of the site's visitors might fail to notice whether there were any significant lapses elsewhere, e.g., that in October, its Mass-schedule still is titled "Holy Week 2013". So there hadn't been a blogger or webmaster at the wheel for many months. But if its "Catholic links" listed FE from before it began its hard turn to ~~ port ~~ the left, it'll stay listed.

Even for a Web site that's up-to-date, or a blog that's fresh, whoever is at the wheel is far more likely to expend effort in adding links to newly discovered sites or blogs, than in visiting sites already on their list, just to verify that their existing links deserve to remain.