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Author Topic: Alternative Non-Accredited Computer Science Degree?  (Read 4565 times)

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Re: Alternative Non-Accredited Computer Science Degree?
« Reply #15 on: December 29, 2020, 08:22:12 AM »
I'm not making a judgment regarding humanities IN THE ABSTRACT.  I am making a judgment with regard to their relevance to computer science.  I absolutely hold that sociology and psychology are of no more relevance to a computer programmer than they would be to a plumber, electrician, or car mechanic.  THAT is the point. 

And you completely missed the point. Trade school is a training. Training focuses on the field. I was talking about a bachelors degree. A bachelors degree is supposed to be something more than a training, call it an education, where you learn a few things outside a narrow field.

Both training and education can have a place.

Quote
are BETTER if self-taught from good reliable sources rather than from some BLM-activist professor.

I don't disagree, but as I said, there are good instructors and classes out there. Or do you think every prof at every college is a BLM-activist?

Traditional catholics sometimes work at colleges.

Long Curriculum?/Re: Alternative Non-Accredited Computer Science Degree?
« Reply #16 on: January 16, 2021, 10:00:10 PM »

As a couple of my older kids are now of college age, and this is making me confront the issues with college ... particularly with regard to computer science (which is the field I am in)

Ummm. Weren't the academic degrees that you earned actually in Classical Languages?

I'm horrified by the cuмulative effect that I expect that the trendy "Learn to Code" classes, books, and videos will have in driving down programming skills in the U.S.A.  I strongly doubt that the skullsful of mush will be taught anything on algorithms, program structuring, data structures, and overall software engineering.

So I'm unsure how a hypothetical student of yours would get the breadth of education that would be routinely expected of any graduate awarded a bachelor of science degree.  But that won't stop me from diving in to draft a curriculum anyhow.  Off the top of my head:

I'd expect each student to be equipped with a single-board computer (SBC) to unify the platform, thus facilitate grading, for various projects assigned in various classes.

• Predetermined extensive use of C and C++ (they would not be my choices for learning programming, but I realize that I don't get a vote).

• Include entire more-or-less separate courses on algorithms (with serious attention to execution speed of implementable alternatives) and their data structures (esp. for vectors, linear chains, and trees, e.g., finite-state-machines, hash tables, and file directories) [∆].
• Include entire more-or-less separate courses on system & program organization and overall software engineering (e.g., must everything really be an object, and when will mere modules suffice?).
• Include manual storage management, including buffers and their competent filling, which programmers seem not to know how to do anymore; their bugs (not "glitches") have enabled tons of malware in recent decades (e.g., Adobe Reader, Javascript).
• Include data organization & mining; might there be courses in Library Science that would be valuable for perspectives on organizing large amounts of data?
• Include other languages as separate courses that are really really not "C-like" (contrary to nearly-ignorant descriptions touting new languages as such) or that rely on different styles or paradigms; the specifics of my choices need not be argued in this reply.
• Include computer architecture and virtual machines (notably the Java V.M.), esp. for students entranced by compilers; as an issue of execution performance, students need to understand how virtual instructions translate to real machine instructions.
• Include computer networking, focused on TCP/IP via Ethernet, including routing.
• Include computer server design & configuration, esp. load-management and proxies.
• Include computer security, revealing as much of black-hat techniques as seems appropriate for students to learn how to defend their own servers.
• Optionally a compiler course, focusing on grammars (the latter being how programmers learn the syntax of newly mandated languages in the real world [×]).
• Include enough statistics to recognize "lying with statistics" and to do testing analysis (e.g., each student needs to understand the reasons that the p-test has lost the scientific respect it once had in statistical-based studies).
• Optionally a numerical methods & anaysis for the students who'd love to be hired to write or maintain math run-time routines.
• Include mathematical logic, notably propositional logic and predicate calculus, enough for elementary understanding of logic-gate-level hardware designs; require students to build something at such a simple level, e.g., with FPGAs or bit-slice processor chips.
• Optional linear algebra.
• Delete calculus & differential equations.
• Optional physics for game-programming; calculus-free approaches might suffice.
• Delete chemistry, but that might disqualify employment in the pharma industry.

• Delete foreign-language requirements; nearly everything worth reading in computer science since World War II will be published or posted in English, the exceptions being the Russians (e.g., recent Zonnon programming language) and possibly the French (an effective way for their research to be not noticed, while the surrounding E.U. countries publish or post in English [⚔]).
• Include business writing & stand-up presentation, and maybe also formal debate, so that students diagnosed within the newfangled autistic spectrum can't continue to avoid face-to-face human interaction by taking refuge in their computers.  Oooh! Cruel! Bad Gator, bad!
• Delete psychology & sociology.

Hmmm. I've identified practically nothing in the liberal arts, so I've failed to resolve the issue of how to justify granting B.S. degrees, but it'd be quite a strong program for a multiyear trade-school diploma.  As readers might imagine, I haven't even attempted to tabulate the academic credits for my hypothetical courses.

Either way, I envision lots of prep time would be required from the instructors.  Perhaps adequate textbook-equivalent source material can be found on-line in the public domain, but publishers don't abandon their copyrighted investments easily.  I can write from experience that conscientious grading of programs for their approach & organization, not simply for getting "right answers",  is quite time-consuming, but even more important as feedback to students in any classes that have no bricks-&-mortar meetings.

--------
Note ∆ : There's a book Practical Algorithms in C (or somesuch), teamed with one for Pascal.

Note ⛎ : The inventor of Python admitted in an interview (on the Web somewhere) that he never intended it for teaching nor as anything more than  as an alternative to the quaint unix *sh script languages.  The use of inden(ta)tion by Python to express the extent of execution control structures (and maybe scope?) will provide needless frustration to students alreading dealing with more than enough new things..

Note × : You don't expect your employer to exempt you from ongoing project schedules and provide you with a course on company time, do you?  Hah, ha!  Time off for employee "technical development" is sooo 20th Century![/b]

Note ⚔ : The notoriously self-important French wouldn't have had even the slightest of chances to publish their Ada docuмents in French; their contract to develop Ada was awarded by U.S. DoD.


Re: Alternative Non-Accredited Computer Science Degree?
« Reply #17 on: March 11, 2021, 10:36:38 AM »
I started my first programming job in 1969 at Ford Motor Co.
I'm still programming today, mostly self-employed.  I worked
for about 15 companies, as a software engineer / programmer.

It's a terrible field, except for one thing: you can sometimes
work from home which could be anywhere in the world that
has internet.

A BS or higher degree is very desirable.  An accredited college
is very desirable.  MIT, Stanford, Carnegie-Mellon and other ivy
league colleges are very desirable.  

The computer industry worships degrees, ivy-league schools,
and GPAs.  The less human you are, the better.  Photographic
memories are highly desired.  PhDs are like god.

The more human you are, the less desirable you are.  Human-
factors people make less money.  User-centered design people
make less money.  Who cares if the software or website is usable?
The users will give feedback and the 3rd or 4th version will be
more usable (a low priority).

It's not a real engineering discipline, like civil engineering, or
aerospace engineering.  No bridges to fall down.  No airplanes
to crash.  Computer crash?  Yeah, just reboot and pray.

If you cannot teach yourself a programming language (Python,
HTML, CSS, Javascript) to get started, then choose another field.

If you love not having retirement benefits, love to drink free coffee
provided at work, love to work extra hours to meet deadlines
without extra pay, love staring at a computer screen 10 hours
a day, and don't like to interact with other humans ... then you
might last 20 years in the computer programming field.

But keep in mind that every five years, half of what you know
becomes obsolete.  So after 20 years, there's a young guy who
just learned the latest technology and will work for half of your
salary.  And if you didn't keep up with all the truck loads of new
technology being invented every year, then you will be considered
out-of-date.  

The corporations really like to hire people at the office in Hyderbad
India where the cost of tech labor is dirt cheap compared with the
cost in the US.

I could write a book on this subject.  In retrospect, I wish I had
pursued civil engineering or real-estate sales.


Offline Matthew

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Re: Alternative Non-Accredited Computer Science Degree?
« Reply #18 on: March 11, 2021, 02:42:39 PM »
As I mentioned in another thread (the one where I announced my unemployment, being in my mid-40's)

A young guy with 5 years experience would be only 21 - 27 years old, and almost certainly unmarried with no kids. He would have almost no health issues. His brain would be optimal for learning new things, and quickly. And he wouldn't be "set in his ways" in an old paradigm that is now out-of-date. But with all those up-sides, he is also CHEAPER than the fortysomething with 20 years experience but only 5 of that is relevant.

Human beings lose their ability to change as they get older. The older they get, the harder it is to change, especially drastically.

I still prefer the original GUI I got into, which is Windows 95. The modern Linux installed on my current PC is obviously better in every way -- faster, more reliable -- but fundamentally you still have a start menu, a taskbar with running programs, and clicking files to launch the appropriate programs. The paradigm is exactly the same.

I can use smartphones, but I don't dive in and use "smartphone specific" stuff. I still just treat my smartphone as a portable Windows 95 computer. I click apps to launch them. I hate the lack of keyboard, mouse, and large screen. I prefer desktop any chance I get. I can't do the 50WPM double-thumb fast "touch typing" that young people do to send out texts quickly. I can see why they prefer smartphone, if that's how fast they can type on that keyboard! But I bet they can't touch type on a QWERTY keyboard as fast as I can. When that silly little pop-up keyboard appears, I have to peck out each letter with my index finger. At least I don't have to HUNT for each letter (the software keyboard is laid out QWERTY format), but it's painfully slow and I can't stand sending more than a few-word message. If I need to do real communication, I head to my PC.

I still prefer making optical storage backups (DVD-R, Blu-ray DVD) of my data. I can't get into "cloud storage". I want to own my backups on-site where I can count on it. What if the Internet goes down?

And I can't stand the "rent everything" model. Klaus Schwab would be happy with the modern state of software! "You will own nothing, and be happy!" "Everything you need, you'll rent, and it will be delivered by drone!" Remember that infamous video?  I prefer to pay once and OWN software, if there's a fee at all. I don't like having a subscription or monthly fee for anything. What if you lose your job, and have to tighten your belt? The only stuff you'll continue to have is that which you permanently own OR can afford under your new income (much smaller -- unemployment, savings, etc.)

Re: Alternative Non-Accredited Computer Science Degree?
« Reply #19 on: March 11, 2021, 06:03:14 PM »
An approach in IT is to go for certification in a number of small things, or in a major area. These are well recognised. An example would be Microsoft certification in various areas. Classes in a college or online would allow someone to prepare for far less money and nearly as good a result. Now some job roles specify IT degrees, but recognised certification is fine for most.