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Author Topic: Alternative Non-Accredited Computer Science Degree?  (Read 4385 times)

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Re: Alternative Non-Accredited Computer Science Degree?
« Reply #10 on: December 29, 2020, 12:15:51 AM »
Really the biggest quality for a developer is the ability to THINK in terms of logical algorithms.  And, either one has it, or one doesn't.  That would be the intent of offering a free/exploratory class, where people (together with their teacher) could mutually decide whether they "had it", so to speak, or didn't.

Some are more adept than others in a first programming class, but the ability to "think algorithmically" can be taught.

I think a trade school approach to programming would be good thing (I said it would be good for CAD as well), but a regular bachelors curriculum also has a place, and some of the views about it are not quite accurate.

- 30/120 credits in the major? The program I'm most familiar with has 60+ credits in the major. The rest are mostly basic science: physics, chem and math. You may not use calculus but much of my own programming work involves it. What's left is a) business writing (not english comp), b) a freshmen programming class for students to see how they like it, c) 3 non-tech electives.

- humanities are garbage? Sure, the women's studies department is a waste of time, but there are still good instructors and classes out there; they don't have to be wasted. How about an art history class covering illuminated manuscripts where a project option is OCR for latin texts?

Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Alternative Non-Accredited Computer Science Degree?
« Reply #11 on: December 29, 2020, 07:22:23 AM »
Some are more adept than others in a first programming class, but the ability to "think algorithmically" can be taught.

Perhaps, over time, to a point, if there's at least a basic aptitude for it.  So, for instance, I am so lacking in artistic ability that it would take someone years to teach me how to draw symmetrical stick figures.  Similarly, not everyone has an aptitude for math (beyond a very basic understanding) or ... to think algorithmically.

But to have the capacity to think algorithmically AT THE LEVEL required to be a proficient computer programmer, that is not common.  Have you ever engaged in computer programming?


Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Alternative Non-Accredited Computer Science Degree?
« Reply #12 on: December 29, 2020, 07:29:04 AM »
- humanities are garbage? Sure, the women's studies department is a waste of time, but there are still good instructors and classes out there; they don't have to be wasted. How about an art history class covering illuminated manuscripts where a project option is OCR for latin texts?

You're missing the point.  As taught by modern universities, the humanities are garbage.  I would pay NOT to have to take those classes; they're poison to the mind and the soul.

AND, as far as career development goes, it's unnecessary past High School.  If I intend to become a computer programmer, I do not NEED more than the few years of English and history, etc. that I would get in High School.

Of course, part of the problem is that there's a recent study which shows that the average High School curriculum was, in the past, more rigorous than today's average college one.  But I'm sure it depends on the High School to.  I went to a Jesuit High School, and I can tell you for a fact that the High School classes in the same subject areas were much more demanding and intense in High School than they were by the time I went to University.

But, in the end, you're missing the point.  I'm not making a judgment regarding humanities IN THE ABSTRACT.  I am making a judgment with regard to their relevance to computer science.  I absolutely hold that sociology and psychology are of no more relevance to a computer programmer than they would be to a plumber, electrician, or car mechanic.  THAT is the point.  If someone can become a good plumber without taking college sociology, then someone could likewise become a proficient computer programmer without college sociology.

No, most Universities are money-making scams.  Students idiotically go into $200K of student loan debt for degrees in Art History.  Oh, and you also miss the point, that these humanities can be self taught ... and in fact, given today's liberal climate, are BETTER if self-taught from good reliable sources rather than from some BLM-activist professor.

So you basically missed, oh, about 5 of the 6 points that I was making here.

Offline Matthew

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Re: Alternative Non-Accredited Computer Science Degree?
« Reply #13 on: December 29, 2020, 07:48:40 AM »
Not everyone has the ______ (talent? brains? aptitude? fill in the blank) to be a brain surgeon.

Likewise, not everyone has the "whatever" to become a computer programmer. Keep in mind that writing code is only a portion of your job. A certain kind of design, engineering, problem solving, and troubleshooting also come into play. You have to have a highly logical mind, just for starters.

And no, a programming career is not always as fun as that first fun experience you had writing a program you enjoyed. For me, that was writing countless games in QBasic and Pascal back in the early 90's. That is so far removed from the web development job I do on a daily basis that it's not even funny.

Why web development? Well, that's what businesses with money need done. Those businesses simply don't need another cute game, especially a simple one written by one person.

If engineering were easy, as in "within the reach of most people", engineers wouldn't make an above-average salary. They would make the same as a factory or retail worker -- jobs almost everyone can do.

Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Alternative Non-Accredited Computer Science Degree?
« Reply #14 on: December 29, 2020, 07:59:07 AM »
Not everyone has the ______ (talent? brains? aptitude? fill in the blank) to be a brain surgeon.

I use the term "aptitude" to mean simply potential ... in the sense that no matter how hard you work or how hard you try or how long you study, you'll simply never be very good at it.  So, for instance, I have ZERO artistic aptitude.  I tried and tried and tried as a boy and young man to work on art, but I could never do it.  At the same time, I sat down and was writing my own computer programs within 3 days of cracking open a book.  Everyone is different.

I have in mind someone like my dad or my sister, or someone, signing up for a C# programming class and not having even a fighting chance at succeeding.  Those people I would not want to take money from.