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Author Topic: Young Catholics are being pressured...  (Read 4547 times)

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Offline Jonah

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Re: Young Catholics are being pressured...
« Reply #60 on: May 01, 2024, 05:42:27 AM »
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  • My parents raised me not to really trust men to begin with until they prove themselves. And I can see what you mean by the "forever" house not being realistic, but what I meant by that is just the knowledge of knowing we will never have to worry about being on the streets, you know?
    Well, irrespective of how much one has, the fact that one would never have to worry about living on the streets should come from our trust and cooperation with providence. Not from the amount we amass. Even then, who knows, God may allow it to happen if it's for the good of our soul.

    Do you seriously think that living on the streets is the path that men from your parish are heading? If not, why should this potential endgame prevent them from marrying?


    Offline Jonah

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    Re: Young Catholics are being pressured...
    « Reply #61 on: May 01, 2024, 05:59:04 AM »
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  • 1-) Job: sure, the husband should have a job.

    2-) House: maybe in the US things are different, but in southern European countries and Latin America, none of my catholic friends owned a house at the time they married. They can make ends meet, are hardworking, etc. But if owning a house were a requirement for marriage, many (not to say most) would marry when their fertile days were over.

    3-) Financial security: what is that supposed to mean? Being able to make ends meet or accuмulate assets? I mean, are we to work hard and trust providence, or accuмulate wealth? From where I come, financial security is the #1 reason why pagans delay marriage.

    4-) Work out and be fit: fair enough, but bear in mind that for many young men going to the gym is not an option to seriously consider. If they work out moderately at home or parks, they'll be fine. But don't expect a "jacked" appearance.
    Now, to be fair, if by financial security you mean something along the lines of "lack of huge debt", then I totally agree!


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Young Catholics are being pressured...
    « Reply #62 on: May 01, 2024, 05:59:19 AM »
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  • Well, irrespective of how much one has, the fact that one would never have to worry about living on the streets should come from our trust and cooperation with providence. Not from the amount we amass. Even then, who knows, God may allow it to happen if it's for the good of our soul.

    Yeah, I think she just means marrying a man who would do everything he can to prevent that from happening in so far as it's within his power to do so, i.e. someone who wouldn't take it lying down, and also one who has a realistic chance of doing so (i.e. has good career potential).

    I might be the hardest worker in the world, but if I dropped out of High School or have some degree in a field that doesn't bode well for steady employment ... I'm probably not an ideal candidate for a prudent woman to marry.  Or, I could have a decent career but be lazy, so that if I hit some bump in the road and lose my job, I'd prefer to wallow on the unemployment line istead of working hard to correct the situation.  I've known both types (among Traditional Catholics) ... and I knew one guy in particular who was both ... imprudent and incredibly lazy.  I won't go into the details, but the situation was absolutely astonishing.

    You need a bit of both.  You could be a hard worker who'll take on 3 jobs bagging groceries, but that kind of scenario wouldn't provide any sense of "financial security," nor would someone with a top engineering degree who keeps leaving or getting fired from companies when his pride has been hurt and then finds himself in no hurry to find another one.

    Offline TheRealMcCoy

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    Re: Young Catholics are being pressured...
    « Reply #63 on: May 01, 2024, 07:23:53 AM »
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  • My parents raised me not to really trust men to begin with until they prove themselves. And I can see what you mean by the "forever" house not being realistic, but what I meant by that is just the knowledge of knowing we will never have to worry about being on the streets, you know?
    Here is the problem.

    Offline Everlast22

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    Re: Young Catholics are being pressured...
    « Reply #64 on: May 02, 2024, 09:27:33 AM »
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  • Here is the problem.
    A lot of the young women are just straight indifferent to getting married and having children. The "baby crazy" young gals seem to be more in the conservative NO spheres. A traditional Catholic man can smell a woman not "ready" for marriage a mile away, but I think a lot of men pursue with just a hope of her changing and then "being ready". I guess? 

    It's complicated. Just too many immature young people today, it's mind blowing. The young ladies are MAYBE ready for marriage when they turn 26-27? That's not a good sign. 

    I used to go to trad cath groups and get young adult togethers, and the problem I see is just immaturity in forming a relationship, with either a potential partner, or just friendships b/w the same sex. 


    Offline AnthonyPadua

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    Re: Young Catholics are being pressured...
    « Reply #65 on: May 05, 2024, 01:32:20 AM »
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  • A lot of the young women are just straight indifferent to getting married and having children. The "baby crazy" young gals seem to be more in the conservative NO spheres. A traditional Catholic man can smell a woman not "ready" for marriage a mile away, but I think a lot of men pursue with just a hope of her changing and then "being ready". I guess?

    It's complicated. Just too many immature young people today, it's mind blowing. The young ladies are MAYBE ready for marriage when they turn 26-27? That's not a good sign.

    I used to go to trad cath groups and get young adult togethers, and the problem I see is just immaturity in forming a relationship, with either a potential partner, or just friendships b/w the same sex.
    What's your metrics to see how mature males and females are? Some people might seem mature in public but in private/at home they may be immature 

    Offline Horatius

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    Re: Young Catholics are being pressured...
    « Reply #66 on: May 05, 2024, 02:25:34 AM »
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  • A lot of the young women are just straight indifferent to getting married and having children. The "baby crazy" young gals seem to be more in the conservative NO spheres. A traditional Catholic man can smell a woman not "ready" for marriage a mile away, but I think a lot of men pursue with just a hope of her changing and then "being ready". I guess?

    It's complicated. Just too many immature young people today, it's mind blowing. The young ladies are MAYBE ready for marriage when they turn 26-27? That's not a good sign.

    I used to go to trad cath groups and get young adult togethers, and the problem I see is just immaturity in forming a relationship, with either a potential partner, or just friendships b/w the same sex.
    I'm sorry but if a guy marries a girl who is 26 or older, he's a complete loser. 

    Offline hansel

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    Re: Young Catholics are being pressured...
    « Reply #67 on: May 05, 2024, 08:19:10 AM »
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  • I'm sorry but if a guy marries a girl who is 26 or older, he's a complete loser.

     FYI, St. Therese's father Louis was 34 and her mother Zelie was 26 when they met. Would you say Louis was a complete loser?


    Offline Soubirous

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    Re: Young Catholics are being pressured...
    « Reply #68 on: May 05, 2024, 11:55:36 AM »
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  • Just a possibility: Maybe from the perspective of OP's priest (granted, not knowing this particular priest), better to get the young folks (those without religious vocation) married ASAP to avoid concupiscence and all of the ills it brings. Not that marriage automatically prevents/solves this in every situation.

    That said, the difficulty of getting married without later regretting it often points to the same shaky foundation, over and over again, of the lack of a solid community. 

    Used to be that teens and young adults could get an impression of each other socially by the company you keep and how you treat your friends. Also, opposite-sex siblings and cousins could clue you in on whatever wasn't obvious about their peers merely from casual observation.

    The older generation knew each other and could steer their children (prudently, not pressuring) toward or away from certain marriage prospects. Not just the rare case of who didn't have good character, but more about who'd be a best lifelong match beyond the rose-colored-glasses stage.

    After marriage, older kin and close friends could be the "guard rails" for both husband and wife as to what is and isn't acceptable. This happened by daily example and basic advice without ever getting into the married couple's private details. 

    There's a statistic about divorce in general (certainly not among actual Catholics): A couple is more likely to divorce if their social circle thinks it's a perfectly fine escape route when marriage gets to be "too much to deal with". Relevance for trads: other people's influence does matter. Of course, Genesis 2:24* nonetheless, but too often couples are on their own both before and after marriage in a way that does more harm than good.

    * Wherefore a man shall leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they shall be two in one flesh.
    Let nothing disturb you, let nothing frighten you, all things pass away: God never changes. Patience obtains all things. He who has God finds he lacks nothing; God alone suffices. - St. Teresa of Jesus

    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Young Catholics are being pressured...
    « Reply #69 on: May 05, 2024, 11:59:27 AM »
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  • FYI, St. Therese's father Louis was 34 and her mother Zelie was 26 when they met. Would you say Louis was a complete loser?

    That's twice today St. Therese was brought up as a model for something other than what the Church canonized her for.

    The entire life of St. Therese and her parents is NOT some kind of ideal or #1 choice that all Catholics should aspire to.

    When the Church canonized St. Therese, it means that St. Therese is in heaven, she practiced heroic virtue, and her Little Way is worthy of imitation. Her virtues were worthy of imitation. It doesn't mean that the #1 best path is for girls to get 2 small earrings, or for parents to work and have someone else watch their children. Or to wait until you are in your mid-30's to get married. Or for women to wait until 26 to get married. Those elements in St. Therese's life (and that of her parents) were TOLERATED or passed over, not held up as the #1 ideal. They weren't enough to derail St. Therese's canonization -- but that doesn't mean they were all ideal or perfect choices that all future Catholics should strive to imitate!
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    Offline Soubirous

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    Re: Young Catholics are being pressured...
    « Reply #70 on: May 05, 2024, 12:08:08 PM »
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  • I'm sorry but if a guy marries a girl who is 26 or older, he's a complete loser.

    What if she's a 27-year-old heiress who dutifully took care of both her pious parents all the way till their peaceful deathbeds? And she's pleasant, feminine, and a good cook? Hmmm? 

    Now delete "heiress" and check again what you think. :laugh1:
    Let nothing disturb you, let nothing frighten you, all things pass away: God never changes. Patience obtains all things. He who has God finds he lacks nothing; God alone suffices. - St. Teresa of Jesus


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Young Catholics are being pressured...
    « Reply #71 on: May 05, 2024, 01:38:34 PM »
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  • Those elements in St. Therese's life (and that of her parents) were TOLERATED or passed over, not held up as the #1 ideal. They weren't enough to derail St. Therese's canonization -- but that doesn't mean they were all ideal or perfect choices that all future Catholics should strive to imitate!

    Or they deemed that it has nothing to do with her possession of heroic virtue.  Recall why she wore the earrings.  There's nothing inherently "less perfect" about wearing earings.  It depends on whether or not there's a disorder present.  St. Therese put them on only to look older when petitioning to get into the convent before the normal canonical age.  If some woman wears them simply to appear more feminine (perhaps she has masculine features or is on the homely side), there's nothing more disordered or imperfect about that than a man letting a beard grow out because he otherwise has somewhat effeminate or at least not-very-masculine features.  If it's in the proper order of simply appearing more femine, there's nothing whatsoever disordered about it.  It's on a case by case basis and a matter of the internal forum.  Shouldn't women want to appear feminine and men to appear masculine?  Women who don't appear feminine (say, by wearing pants) are regularly castigated for it, and now a woman who puts on a couple small relatively-modest earrings in order to appear more femine (perhas something she lacks naturally) is also "imperfect"?

    Wearing some earrings has become associated with femininity, which is why we're rightly put off by seeing men wearing them.  I don't see women wearing them as any different than wearing a very feminine (albeit modest) dress.

    Offline hansel

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    Re: Young Catholics are being pressured...
    « Reply #72 on: May 05, 2024, 02:06:31 PM »
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  • FYI, St. Therese's father Louis was 34 and her mother Zelie was 26 when they met. Would you say Louis was a complete loser?

    That's twice today St. Therese was brought up as a model for something other than what the Church canonized her for.

    The entire life of St. Therese and her parents is NOT some kind of ideal or #1 choice that all Catholics should aspire to.


    Matthew, with respect, I don't think you understood my intent. Let me clarify-nothing in my post above (which you  referred to)  was meant to imply that everyone should copy EVERYTHING in the lives of St. Therese or her parents. The post also wasn't intended to  indicate that it is best to marry older either.

    Actually, I believe marrying YOUNGER is the best option for scores of reasons, provided that the couple knows what they are getting into. I've indicated that in previous posts. My only point of that recent post was that someone who marries later in life CAN have a good marriage if they have the right dispositions. If so, they are by no means "losers" by default as Horatius indicates.

    Not saying they were perfect, but by all accounts, St. Therese's parents were at least a reasonably good couple, and their marriage produced "good fruit". Hence the use of that particular example. 

    Offline TheRealMcCoy

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    Re: Young Catholics are being pressured...
    « Reply #73 on: May 05, 2024, 02:10:46 PM »
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  • That's twice today St. Therese was brought up as a model for something other than what the Church canonized her for.

    The entire life of St. Therese and her parents is NOT some kind of ideal or #1 choice that all Catholics should aspire to.

    When the Church canonized St. Therese, it means that St. Therese is in heaven, she practiced heroic virtue, and her Little Way is worthy of imitation. Her virtues were worthy of imitation. It doesn't mean that the #1 best path is for girls to get 2 small earrings, or for parents to work and have someone else watch their children. Or to wait until you are in your mid-30's to get married. Or for women to wait until 26 to get married. Those elements in St. Therese's life (and that of her parents) were TOLERATED or passed over, not held up as the #1 ideal. They weren't enough to derail St. Therese's canonization -- but that doesn't mean they were all ideal or perfect choices that all future Catholics should strive to imitate!
    Thank you. The parents are not saints and should not be imitated.

    The poor decisions of the mother of St. Maria Goretti led to her horrific death. Yes she is a Saint and her attacker converted but does that mean single mothers should allow their young daughters to live in the same house as creepy unrelated men? No.

    Offline AMDGJMJ

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    Re: Young Catholics are being pressured...
    « Reply #74 on: May 05, 2024, 09:10:10 PM »
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  • I'm sorry but if a guy marries a girl who is 26 or older, he's a complete loser.
    Hahaha!  I was 26 when I got married. :laugh1: :laugh2:

    It wasn't from lack of being ready to marry earlier but more from going to a small chapel and not having good opportunities to meet solid traditional young men.  Also...  All of my family are novus ordo, so I didn't have any help on that end.  :popcorn:


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