Author Topic: Young Catholics are being pressured... (Read 4632 times)

SaintDominique · « **on:** April 29, 2024, 10:58:22 PM »

As a girl who has grown up within the SSPX, I have firsthand experience that some of the higher-ups in the SSPX like to push young Catholics into making choices that they will regret later in life. And before anyone comes at me, yeah life isn't easy, and never will be. I have seen too many unhappy marriages over the years and I have come to the point where I no longer believe that marriage is even an option for me. Almost every week at Church my pastor talks about young people having two choices, religious life, or marriage, and if you don't choose either of the two you are selfish. How is that even fair, neither of them is 100% guaranteed. I could get rejected by the convents OR there will be ZERO men that I'm even interested in, or aren’t my cup of tea if you know what I mean. And I know there will be older married people on here going to think “You’re young you don’t know what marriage is like” which is true, but how many of the couples on here were also rushed into marriage? Marrying someone you dated/courted for 4 months sounds like a recipe for disaster. And not to mention that that same couple probably doesn’t even have enough income to support a family. Instead of bothering the guys in the parishes to find a girl, tell them to find a major in college or a good-paying job, something that will benefit them in the long run. These are real issues that are never addressed, people turn a blind eye to them because it’s been normalized. If I want to get married I want a guy with a job, a house, and financial security, is that too much to ask? I’m not asking for millions, I’m asking for a home that we can stay in forever, money for our kids to feed them and to go to college and pursue what God wanted for them. It’s not rocket science, it’s simply planning for the future. Also, can we please stop the idea that it’s vain to take care of your appearance? NONE of the guys at my parish are interested or even have the care to work out or be fit. So in conclusion, stop trying to rush young Catholics into decisions that are life-changing, please...

Giovanni Berto · « **Reply #1 on:** April 29, 2024, 11:42:35 PM »

I have had a very poor experience with marriage preparation in the SSPX.

It seems to me that the quality of the preparation largely depends on the degree of interest of the local prior in this demand and the particular priest assigned to prepare the couple's knowledge and willingness to do a good job.

There are many good priests in the SSPX, but when it comes to marriage and family life, a lot of them are completely clueless.

You are right in resisting this pressure. If you listen to bad advice, you and your future children will suffer.

On the other hand, it does sound like you ask a lot.
Other people here will be more disposed to shows you this. Just wait and see.

Nadir · « **Reply #2 on:** April 29, 2024, 11:58:19 PM »

I think, at your age, it’s OK if you don’t feel attracted to either the religious (consecrated) life or the married state. I certainly didn’t, but neither did I feel pressured by anyone. We were taught there were 3 possibilities - the consecrated religious life, the married life and the single life in the world.

Keep your options open right now. Just pray to do God’s Will.

None of the 3 choices are easy. All have their challenges. I lived the single life until 36, and now I am married 42 years.

I am sure you’ll get lots of comments, advice and discussion. Should be interesting.

Nadir · « **Reply #3 on:** April 30, 2024, 12:02:02 AM »

Quote from: Giovanni Berto on April 29, 2024, 11:42:35 PM

On the other hand, it does sound like you ask a lot.
Other people here will be more disposed to shows you this. Just wait and see.

I was thinking likewise, Giovanni.

Gray2023 · « **Reply #4 on:** April 30, 2024, 06:09:50 AM »

I have questions.

Do you have an idea of what you feel God is calling you to do?

Do you have examples of good marriages?

It is very sad that the expectations of what a man needs to do to be ready to have a family doesn't seem to be emphasized as much. It's like putting the cart before the horse.

It is probably better to teach people how to discern what God wants of them, then to force a standard of religious life or marriage as the only options.

hansel · « **Reply #5 on:** April 30, 2024, 06:40:15 AM »

Quote from: SaintDominique on April 29, 2024, 10:58:22 PM

As a girl who has grown up within the SSPX, I have firsthand experience that some of the higher-ups in the SSPX like to push young Catholics into making choices that they will regret later in life. And before anyone comes at me, yeah life isn't easy, and never will be......
Almost every week at Church my pastor talks about young people having two choices, religious life, or marriage, and if you don't choose either of the two you are selfish. How is that even fair, neither of them is 100% guaranteed.

I've seen a bit of this "vocation pressuring" in SSPX circles too, although it seemed more focused on religious life rather than marriage. (And yes, I do recognize that religious life is the highest vocation...but not everyone is called to that).

Many in the SSPX chapels do marry at a younger age, but that often is partly due to the cultural conventions of the regions where the bigger chapels/mass centers are found (i.e. Midwest) rather than a direct recommendation/mandate. If the couple is mature and responsible, I don't think there is a problem. That said, pressuring someone young and immature to rush into either religious life or marriage without proper discernment is a problem, and there also has to be a recognition that some (or even many) in isolated mission chapels end up single out of no fault of their own.

On the "flip side" of the "coin", the time one has to make life decisions is finite. If someone waits too long, and then finally realizes "late in the game" that they don't want to be single and actually want marriage or religious life, it may be too late. Perhaps the pressuring is in part an "overcorrection" to avoid this. The bottom line is that the sooner one can be comfortably sure of taking a given path, the better.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #6 on:** April 30, 2024, 06:50:55 AM »

Quote from: SaintDominique on April 29, 2024, 10:58:22 PM

If I want to get married I want a guy with a job, a house, and financial security, is that too much to ask? I’m not asking for millions, I’m asking for a home that we can stay in forever, money for our kids to feed them and to go to college and pursue what God wanted for them.

Most of what you wrote isn't unreasonable, other than what I wrote in bold there. It shouldn't be required that a husband have enough money to send kids to college. In fact, if a couple accept all the children God sends them, they could end up with 10+ children, and paying for college for 10 kids isn't reasonable. Not only that, but college isn't for everyone. I have a son who absolutely hates school ... and the world also needs people who practice various trades (though he wants to go into law enforcement).

In addition, women should generally avoid college ... except possibly to get degrees in jobs that are suited to the female temperament, such as teaching (younger children especially) and nursing. But even with nursing, there are programs out there that don't require a 4-year degree.

I'll give you an example. I have two daughters who are going into nursing. 1 is in a four-year program, the standard BSN program. 1 went to a State College (Community College). So, while the 1 in the 4-year program is plodding around with absolutely nothing to show for it, where if she dropped out after 3.5 years of the 4, she'd walk away with nothing she could get a job with, the 1 in the State College got an LPN degree after 1 year of coursework, and is making $70,000 per year (after 1 year of college). So in the 3 years that she finished earlier than the 1 in the 4-year program, she can put away $150,000 after taxes (since she's living at home and has no bills/expenses). Meanwhile the 1 in the 4-year program will probably leave with about $25,000 of debt after 4 years (she received some large scholarships, so her expenses aren't huge). So, at the end of the 4-years, that's a $175,000 swing, almost enough to buy a home outright. Meanwhile, the 1 with the LPN can not only put enough away in 4 years to at least buy a nice condo outright, but she's taking classes on the side and should have her RN within the next 4 years anyway. Without getting into too much detail, don't buy the hype. College is 90% a scam, except for in fields where a degree is absolutely required (limited to fields like teaching). I've been a computer programmer for 30 years, and I do not have a Computer Science degree (and I'm at the top of my field here, with the title of "Architect"). College is a scam where in 4 years and 40 classes, you'll take maybe 10 of the 40 in your Major, and the other 30 (75%) are in garbage "core curriculum" that have no other benefit than to keep a bunch of Leftist Liberal Arts professors employed who would otherwise be bagging groceries at their local Walmart.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #7 on:** April 30, 2024, 06:57:14 AM »

Bottom line, though, is that no everyone is called to either the religious life or to marriage. Most important thing is to pray and to let God guide you, and, if it's God's will for you, the right person will come along (though this doesn't mean being 100% passive and not looking). You're right that 4 months of courtship generally doesn't suffice to truly get to know someone, but I've seen situations where even after 2 years of courtship, there were surprises afterwards, since during courtship people tend to be on their "best behavior", and possibly infatuated to a degree where they overlook or don't "see" the potential problems -- and it's only after the complacency of being "locked in" by marriage that people sometimes begin to show their true selves, though there are things you can look for. Probably the best thing one can do is to ask the individual's friends or associates about him, people who might work with him or aren't biased like family members, such as parents, who might be trying to "marry off" one of their children. If you get an answer along the lines of, "I pity the fool who would be married to this guy." that's usually a good indicator.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #8 on:** April 30, 2024, 07:07:06 AM »

Quote from: SaintDominique on April 29, 2024, 10:58:22 PM

Also, can we please stop the idea that it’s vain to take care of your appearance? NONE of the guys at my parish are interested or even have the care to work out or be fit. So in conclusion, stop trying to rush young Catholics into decisions that are life-changing, please...

OK, well, that may be your "parish" (aka "chapel"), but it's not universally true. As for it being "vain" to care for your appearance, it can be or it can't be. Depends on the individual and depends on whether or not it's "disordered", i.e. not in its proper place and proportion and for the right motivations. So that statement is neither here nor there. Not to mention that being "fit" and looking good are not necessarily tied together or motivated by the same things. You can want to be fit so you can better perform your duties of state (properly ordered) and look good out of respect for your future spouse (or to expand your options for your future spouse). So, whether or not it's "vain" and disproportionate and not properly ordered to higher things depends entirely on the individual. You can't make a blanket statement along those lines. Basically, for a man to be excessively concerned about his "appearance" (for the sake of looks) would be suspect in terms of his overall masculinity. This doesn't mean being slovenly either, but if someone's constantly primping in a mirror, almost as much as a girl/woman might, there's a red flag there.

So, reading between all the lines, with everything you've said, I get the impression that someone (perhaps SSPX clergy) are pushing you to date some guys that you're not attracted to at the chapel, in the interests of playing matchmaker. Big deal. Just say no.

TheRealMcCoy · « **Reply #9 on:** April 30, 2024, 07:18:32 AM »

Saint Dominique...you are being very wise to not pursue marriage at this time in your life. It's clear you aren't interested in being a wife right now and God has not presented anyone appealing to you. Many traditional priests will confirm that young men today are effeminate compared to earlier generations. I think they have high levels of estrogen from tainted food (evidence is "manboobs") that cause them to be unmotivated to excel at anything, whether it's their career or appearance. I also wonder if homeschooling has made many young men passive because of lack of competition. I have 3 sons so I see the difference between the older one who went to school v the younger ones who I homeschooled.

When you do meet someone you are attracted to, you will feel differently.

SimpleMan · « **Reply #10 on:** April 30, 2024, 07:46:05 AM »

I have always understood Catholicism to accept that some people are neither called to marriage nor to the religious life, but to live a single life as a lay person, possibly without ever being able to discern the reason why. And remaining single always gives you the option of pursuing either other state, if such a calling would come at any time in life. Other states of life don’t give you that freedom.

Dominique · « **Reply #11 on:** April 30, 2024, 08:32:46 AM »

Quote from: SaintDominique on April 29, 2024, 10:58:22 PM

As a girl who has grown up within the SSPX, I have firsthand experience that some of the higher-ups in the SSPX like to push young Catholics into making choices that they will regret later in life. And before anyone comes at me, yeah life isn't easy, and never will be. I have seen too many unhappy marriages over the years and I have come to the point where I no longer believe that marriage is even an option for me. Almost every week at Church my pastor talks about young people having two choices, religious life, or marriage, and if you don't choose either of the two you are selfish. How is that even fair, neither of them is 100% guaranteed. I could get rejected by the convents OR there will be ZERO men that I'm even interested in, or aren’t my cup of tea if you know what I mean. And I know there will be older married people on here going to think “You’re young you don’t know what marriage is like” which is true, but how many of the couples on here were also rushed into marriage? Marrying someone you dated/courted for 4 months sounds like a recipe for disaster. And not to mention that that same couple probably doesn’t even have enough income to support a family. Instead of bothering the guys in the parishes to find a girl, tell them to find a major in college or a good-paying job, something that will benefit them in the long run. These are real issues that are never addressed, people turn a blind eye to them because it’s been normalized. If I want to get married I want a guy with a job, a house, and financial security, is that too much to ask? I’m not asking for millions, I’m asking for a home that we can stay in forever, money for our kids to feed them and to go to college and pursue what God wanted for them. It’s not rocket science, it’s simply planning for the future. Also, can we please stop the idea that it’s vain to take care of your appearance? NONE of the guys at my parish are interested or even have the care to work out or be fit. So in conclusion, stop trying to rush young Catholics into decisions that are life-changing, please...

I totally understand what you are saying.
When I was a teenager at school, the priest told us very clearly during a catechism course, "there are three states of life, not just two, religious vocation, marriage, and single, celibate life".
When a girl finished high school, she was encouraged to learn a feminine trade or go to Uni, because unless she had a vocation, there was no guarantee she was going to marry, or even marry relatively young. When girls in Tradition nowadays do NOTHING but babysitting, they tend to fall into the arms of the first guy who pays them some attention and it ends up in a disastrous marriage. Nor do they know how to manage a household budget, because they have never learnt how to do so... They are also totally unequipped to homeschool their children adequately. My sister and I both went to Uni and worked, and gave up working in a heartbeat before our first child was born. Good solid marriages, and lots of homeschooled children.
But now I look at the men around us and I wonder who on earth could my daughter marry?? If she doesn't have a vocation, she will probably end up single. And it won't be her fault...
One thing though: you are absolutely right to want to marry a man with a job (our priest won't even allow a man without a job to date), but a house is not a requirement, depending on where in the world you live. I understand that houses are pretty cheap in the USA still though. Also, "forever" is basically impossible these days, people often have to move 😊.

OABrownson1876 · « **Reply #12 on:** April 30, 2024, 09:08:07 AM »

SaintDominque, stay close to the sacraments and pray, and I am sure that God will lead you to the right vocation. As your profile shows you are still quite young and in the youth of your womanhood. As Lad commented, it is not reasonable to desire of a man that he send ten children to college. And besides, some of the most successful people do not even spend one day in college. I worked for New York Life in Louisville, and our number one agent in the city was a man who, straight out of high school got his life/health insurance licenses (which is quite easy to do), and in one quarter he made almost 200,000$ in commissions. Let that settle in. Not one day in college, and he was the number one agent in the largest city in Kentucky pulling in some serious money.

And the number one agent in the history of the company (New York Life) was some Jєω who stuttered and never went to college. He sold, if I recall the number, seven million $ in life insurance in a single year. And this was I think back in the 40's and 50's. I cannot recall the guy's name, but I remember thinking to myself, "Man, this stuttering Jєω sold 7 million in life insurance in a single year?"

TheRealMcCoy · « **Reply #13 on:** April 30, 2024, 09:16:11 AM »

Quote from: OABrownson1876 on April 30, 2024, 09:08:07 AM

SaintDominque, stay close to the sacraments and pray, and I am sure that God will lead you to the right vocation. As your profile shows you are still quite young and in the youth of your womanhood. As Lad commented, it is not reasonable to desire of a man that he send ten children to college. And besides, some of the most successful people do not even spend one day in college. I worked for New York Life in Louisville, and our number one agent in the city was a man who, straight out of high school got his life/health insurance licenses (which is quite easy to do), and in one quarter he made almost 200,000$ in commissions. Let that settle in. Not one day in college, and he was the number one agent in the largest city in Kentucky pulling in some serious money.

Excellent points. I'm helping my 2 younger sons to start a property preservation business. It will take at least 5 years to realize good profits but then again they are still under the age of 25. They will be self-employed with no debt, business owners, compared to young men with working minimum wage struggling to pay off $60,000+ in student loans...tell me which ones the ladies will prefer for marriage? Plus as a business owner, you have the freedom to take off 2 weeks to go on a European vacation or stay home with a post-partum wife.

Everlast22 · « **Reply #14 on:** April 30, 2024, 09:17:22 AM »

The young men (and women) have not really had trials in life. Going to "Church n' stuff" are not objective every-day trials. Spiritual, mental, and physical... Us trads def. lack in the mental and physical department. This is my observation. The tough love is not being administered. Waiting until even you're 18, is wayyyyy to late. This ties into what OP was saying about taking care of your body. The first thing you have to do when you go out into the world is be able to walk, maybe run..., push, pull, function physiologically.. A healthy, attractive body, shows the "ability of capability" as a man or woman.

The most disciplined people I've ever met in the work force, are the ones who maybe work an well paying desk job, and make it a duty to exercise and live a balanced lifestyle, diet, etc.

If the job thing is lacking for the young man, it's because they are LAZY... There are TOO many resources, too many avenues of potential to say otherwise, at least here in the U.S.. If they are up and coming, working hard, then that's another thing. I think LAD or Matthew said, you have to be savvy, too. Take the "keeping up with the Joneses" and throw that out the window, it will destroy your outlook on Catholic family duties.

Personally, I've been through the wringer to get where I am at today, so forgive me if my empathy on this subject is kind of low.

OP if you are looking for a Godly masculine spouse, you really have to put yourself out there and be inviting to the man you want. Don't have to pursue, but be inviting to the guy you want/need.

Author Topic: Young Catholics are being pressured... (Read 4632 times)

SaintDominique

Young Catholics are being pressured...

Giovanni Berto

Re: Young Catholics are being pressured...

Nadir

Re: Young Catholics are being pressured...

Nadir

Re: Young Catholics are being pressured...

Gray2023

Re: Young Catholics are being pressured...

hansel

Re: Young Catholics are being pressured...

Ladislaus

Re: Young Catholics are being pressured...

Ladislaus

Re: Young Catholics are being pressured...

Ladislaus

Re: Young Catholics are being pressured...

TheRealMcCoy

Re: Young Catholics are being pressured...

SimpleMan

Re: Young Catholics are being pressured...

Dominique

Re: Young Catholics are being pressured...

OABrownson1876

Re: Young Catholics are being pressured...

TheRealMcCoy

Re: Young Catholics are being pressured...

Everlast22

Re: Young Catholics are being pressured...