Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

« previous next »
Pages: [1]

Author Topic: Years of Invalid Masses  (Read 4376 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline SeanJohnson

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15060
  • Reputation: +10006/-3162
  • Gender: Male
Years of Invalid Masses
« on: November 27, 2023, 04:25:37 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Apparently a Church was using and disseminating this invalid recipe for Communion for years:

    Excerpt from a New Liturgical Movement article: https://www.newliturgicalmovement.org/2023/11/years-of-invalid-honeycake-masses.html

    "I was thinking about all this recently when a reader sent me a recipe that was used in the ’90s at his wife’s childhood parish for “baking the Mass bread.” One glance at this recipe makes it apparent that the parish in question did not, in fact, offer Mass for years due to invalid matter. The reader’s wife was, needless to say, very upset to find out, years after the fact, that her “First Communion” wasn’t actually her first, because there was no Communion there."

    Logged
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline Quo vadis Domine

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 4750
    • Reputation: +2896/-667
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Years of Invalid Masses
    « Reply #1 on: November 27, 2023, 04:46:51 PM »
  • Thanks!2
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: SeanJohnson on November 27, 2023, 04:25:37 PM
    Apparently a Church was using and disseminating this invalid recipe for Communion for years:

    Excerpt from a New Liturgical Movement article: https://www.newliturgicalmovement.org/2023/11/years-of-invalid-honeycake-masses.html

    "I was thinking about all this recently when a reader sent me a recipe that was used in the ’90s at his wife’s childhood parish for “baking the Mass bread.” One glance at this recipe makes it apparent that the parish in question did not, in fact, offer Mass for years due to invalid matter. The reader’s wife was, needless to say, very upset to find out, years after the fact, that her “First Communion” wasn’t actually her first, because there was no Communion there."




    They didn’t need the recipe to make it invalid. :laugh1:
    Logged
    For what doth it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his own soul? Or what exchange shall a man give for his soul?

    Offline Ladislaus

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 46300
    • Reputation: +27254/-5037
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Years of Invalid Masses
    « Reply #2 on: November 28, 2023, 07:54:02 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: Quo vadis Domine on November 27, 2023, 04:46:51 PM
    They didn’t need the recipe to make it invalid. :laugh1:

    THIS^^^.  But if they're eating bread, they might as well make it tasty.
    Logged

    Offline Quo vadis Domine

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 4750
    • Reputation: +2896/-667
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Years of Invalid Masses
    « Reply #3 on: November 28, 2023, 04:00:54 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: Ladislaus on November 28, 2023, 07:54:02 AM
    THIS^^^.  But if they're eating bread, they might as well make it tasty.

    Now that is funny! :laugh1:
    Logged
    For what doth it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his own soul? Or what exchange shall a man give for his soul?

    Offline OABrownson1876

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 653
    • Reputation: +541/-27
    • Gender: Male
      • The Orestes Brownson Society
    Re: Years of Invalid Masses
    « Reply #4 on: November 28, 2023, 04:26:31 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • She would actually want her First Holy Communion to be traditional, so it worked out in the end it seems.  She was just caught up in the NO madness for a while. 
    Logged
    Bryan Shepherd, M.A. Phil.
    PO Box 17248
    2312 S. Preston
    Louisville, Ky. 40217; email:letsgobryan@protonmail.com. substack: bryanshepherd.substack.com
    website: www.orestesbrownson.org. Rumble: rumble.com/user/Orestes76

    Offline Yeti

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 4064
    • Reputation: +2402/-524
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Years of Invalid Masses
    « Reply #5 on: November 28, 2023, 06:26:56 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
    • I don't think a small amount of honey added to the batter would make it invalid. If it still tastes like bread, it would be valid. Oroweat has made a kind of bread that has a small amount of honey in it called Honey Wheat Berry Bread, and I think that would be valid since it's called bread and is considered bread by anyone.

    Definitely gravely illicit, though!! :trollface:

    .......

    Oh, wait, now I get it. You mean it was invalid due to defective Holy Orders on the part of the minister and also the new mass being invalid due to the form being recited as a historical event rather than taking place here and now, and because of the missing "mysterium fidei". Silly me! :laugh1:
    Logged

    Offline SimpleMan

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 4915
    • Reputation: +1884/-231
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Years of Invalid Masses
    « Reply #6 on: November 28, 2023, 07:05:32 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: Yeti on November 28, 2023, 06:26:56 PM
    I don't think a small amount of honey added to the batter would make it invalid. If it still tastes like bread, it would be valid. Oroweat has made a kind of bread that has a small amount of honey in it called Honey Wheat Berry Bread, and I think that would be valid since it's called bread and is considered bread by anyone.

    Definitely gravely illicit, though!! :trollface:

    .......

    Oh, wait, now I get it. You mean it was invalid due to defective Holy Orders on the part of the minister and also the new mass being invalid due to the form being recited as a historical event rather than taking place here and now, and because of the missing "mysterium fidei". Silly me! :laugh1:

    I'd be interested to know, more as a thought exercise than anything else, how much of something other than wheaten flour would have to be used, to render the Sacred Species invalid.  Assuming a pound of dough (or whatever you call it when eucharistic hosts are being made), a half-teaspoon of honey?  Salt?  Oil?  A quarter-teaspoon?  An eighth-teaspoon?  And what of doubtful validity versus certain invalidity?

    At that point, it starts being a sorites exercise, viz. "how many grains of sand does it take to make a heap of sand?".

    Keep in mind that when a drop or two of water are added to the chalice, the wine does not cease to be wine.
    Logged

    Offline TheRealMcCoy

    • Supporter
    • ***
    • Posts: 1332
    • Reputation: +951/-197
    • Gender: Female
    • The Thread Killer
    Re: Years of Invalid Masses
    « Reply #7 on: November 28, 2023, 07:17:24 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: Yeti on November 28, 2023, 06:26:56 PM
    I don't think a small amount of honey added to the batter would make it invalid. If it still tastes like bread, it would be valid. Oroweat has made a kind of bread that has a small amount of honey in it called Honey Wheat Berry Bread, and I think that would be valid since it's called bread and is considered bread by anyone.

    Definitely gravely illicit, though!! :trollface:

    .......

    Oh, wait, now I get it. You mean it was invalid due to defective Holy Orders on the part of the minister and also the new mass being invalid due to the form being recited as a historical event rather than taking place here and now, and because of the missing "mysterium fidei". Silly me! :laugh1:
    According to Canon Law any ingredient other than wheat invalidates the bread. Amounts are irrelevant.
    Logged
    Pages: [1]
    « previous next »