Author Topic: would you ever marry a NO? (Read 7149 times)

spouse of Jesus · « **on:** January 17, 2011, 09:16:52 PM »

A NO or a very liberal person tells you that s/he is catholic and respect all your choices and plans.
Does it mean you can marry without sharing in his/her actions?

For example if you are a woman and your NO husband wants pay a visit to a mosque, he won't force you to accompany him, but you will have to iron his shirts, tell him what to wear and then say "God speed" as he goes there.
And if you are a man and have such a wife you may have to drive her to that mosque and then fetch her, though "you are free to go home if you don't like to come in".

Then comes the habit of TV watching where everything is OK because s/he is not watching it for lust, but for education and entertainment! Whether by a satelite (as is closed Countries) or by TV (as in free societies) s/he spends 4 hours a day before TV. You will have to take children out lest they see what mom/dad is gazing at. It doesn't end here. s/he might ask you to keep him/her comapny and "lets watch it together".

You may have fought strong temptations for many years with the hope of being appreiciated by a future spouse. But he puts an end to your dream:" what ever sin you might have commited before marriage is all OK to me."
Any ideas?

Catholic Samurai · « **Reply #1 on:** January 18, 2011, 11:43:08 AM »

Personally I would NEVER marry such a person for sake of my children (and for my own convenience and comfort). I would never want my children to think that attending a pagan temple is "OK", nor would I want them to think that the garbage that is displayed on TV is fine for "entertainment/education". If their father thinks that way, then his children will come to posses the same mindset. Even if she were the last woman on earth available I would NEVER take someone to be my spouse who does not take the 1st Commandment seriously or thinks that public sin is acceptable.

Stubborn · « **Reply #2 on:** January 18, 2011, 12:00:00 PM »

Because the only person you can live with peacefully your whole life is you - best to find someone as much like you as possible........if you want peace that is.

The more devout you are, it seems like the more it would hurt you to see your spouse living a false religion. And I don't believe that he/she would let you do your own thing in peace for very long.

Once the flames of passion dwindle, your screwed ~ jmho.

Stubborn · « **Reply #3 on:** January 18, 2011, 12:01:33 PM »

Quote from: Catholic Samurai

Personally I would NEVER marry such a person for sake of my children (and for my own convenience and comfort). I would never want my children to think that attending a pagan temple is "OK", nor would I want them to think that the garbage that is displayed on TV is fine for "entertainment/education". If their father thinks that way, then his children will come to posses the same mindset. Even if she were the last woman on earth available I would NEVER take someone to be my spouse who does not take the 1st Commandment seriously or thinks that public sin is acceptable.

:applause:

CathMomof7 · « **Reply #4 on:** January 18, 2011, 12:17:44 PM »

If I had been a traditional Catholic when I met my husband, I would not have married him. He was a very lapsed Catholic, though. In my current mindset, I really don't see how I could marry a NO Catholic. If I couldn't find a traditional Catholic, or a person who was willing to convert before we got married, I would probably just remain unmarried.

I think of this a lot because our oldest son will soon be 19. He has started "looking". I really worry for him and the future of any grandchildren that we may possibly have.

MrsZ · « **Reply #5 on:** January 22, 2011, 05:15:23 PM »

I wasn't a traditional Catholic when I met and married my H. He was a cradle Novus Ordo Catholic at the time .... very liberal minded. We've each become more traditional and conservative over the 20 years of our marriage.

If was 23 and a traditional Catholic, I'd only look within this group of people. As it is, I've developed more strictly than my H has and up until recently, it was causing problems.

My son is 18 and my daughter is 16. I, too am concerned about them especially because we know no other traditional Catholics and attend only the Novus Ordo mass.

We are completely unable to make any changes in our circuмstances and will not be able to attend traditional masses with any regularity.

Recently, I've come to the conclusion that God intends that we stay here and see this thing through..for the greater good.

ora pro me · « **Reply #6 on:** January 25, 2011, 01:43:01 PM »

CathMom & MrsZ,
Do you know about the traditional Catholic websites for young people? I don't know the websites offhand, but maybe one of the young people here do. I understand that some of the young folks get to know each other pretty well on those sites after they've conversed on them awhile.

MrsZ · « **Reply #7 on:** February 09, 2011, 03:39:58 PM »

I'm sorry, I didn't see your question until just now.

Frankly, I'm a little wary of any internet "Friend" or "Dating" type sites, even for Traditional Catholics. Even with the best of intentions, it can create the opportunity for intimate conversations that wouldn't be the case if the people were meeting face to face with their family in their midst.

I realize some people have had good results ... but our children are still very young and very inexperienced with "the world" and I'm afraid without our direct guidance, they could easily fall prey to the very things we fell prey to in our youth.

One of the worst fears a parent can have! :sad:

Matthew · « **Reply #8 on:** February 09, 2011, 05:31:02 PM »

You have to be careful about "too much control" -- the words "direct guidance" sound a bit controlling as well.

If you were talking about your 15 or 16 year old, maybe -- but at some point you have to let your children test the strength of their own virtues, and hope (and pray!) you did a good job.

If your "child" of 18 is determined to experience "love" with or without God's blessing, there's little you can do but pray.

The foundation for doing God's will must be laid much earlier.

But being over-controlling can seriously backfire. I've seen it many, many times.

I think it would be better for them to fall in love "long distance" with another traditional Catholic via a dating site than to have them end up meeting some Novus Ordo (or worse) face-to-face and have that cause problems.

Fornication had no problem flourishing before the Internet. There is also nothing intrinsically evil (or different) about the Internet. If anything, it's a great blessing for our age, a remedy to go with the disease of widely dispersed traditional Catholics.

Besides, no matter what they talk about remotely, they still have to meet eventually, and that's when you get out the rules, chaperones, etc.

Matthew

DoubtingThomas · « **Reply #9 on:** February 09, 2011, 07:06:42 PM »

Is it really that difficult to convert a NO Catholic into a Trad Catholic?

What about the Miraculous Medal?

I was born a NO, and here I am. Believe it or not, the "Traditionalist Gospel" has not reach every person on Earth yet. The Traditionalist Movement is not really as known as you expect.

I see a prejudice here... That's not good.

I found the SSPX, on my own. There are not a lot of Trads spreading the news about Mons-Lefebvre. It started 40 years ago, and yet little is known.

When a Catholic hears about for the first time, first thought would be that is a new thing. Once you hear it's 40 years old, you could think it's a sect, which is not (I know). That doesn't help much, but discriminating your fellow Catholics makes things even worse.

I would have become a Trad much earlier in my life if I would have known that such an option existed, that would have actually spared me from committing a lot of sins.

You shouldn't speak of NO people as if they would be Muslims, Buddhists, or Jєωs. It's just not fair, and it's not their fault.

parentsfortruth · « **Reply #10 on:** February 09, 2011, 08:50:44 PM »

My entire extended family is novus ordo. Some of them, you just can't talk to. Others you do talk to, end up talking to the novus ordo part of the family, and get re-brainwashed. It's totally counterproductive.

To say that they "can't help it," ain't necessarily so.

Some of these people are so comfortable with their "special" layperson duties that they've been given. It's almost like a police officer with a new shiny badge, that is on a power trip. You can't talk to most of them.

I was novus ordo until I was 14. Fortunately I was caught early enough (and JUST IN TIME) before I was completely brainwashed and would have lost my faith.

Our extended family ostracized us because they claimed we "weren't Catholic." My grandmother was the primary culprit. Her little matriarchy lead to the ruin of the rest of the family, and their complete unwillingness to listen to the truth.

We still don't have a relationship with them, although, I have tried to talk to some of my cousins (of which I have 88, last time I counted, probably more) but they're so brainwashed most of the time, they dismiss you as a loon.

I would say it wouldn't be the "fault" of the younger people, but for the OLDER people that experienced what it was to be a Catholic before the changes, to outright dismiss and reject those that cling to the faith as "schismatics" and whatever lame label they want to place on "traditionalists" leads people to believe they totally reject the faith with their own free will, and choose the erroneous path of the newchurch.

DoubtingThomas · « **Reply #11 on:** February 09, 2011, 10:24:32 PM »

Like I said before...

You seem to think that the Traditionalist Movement is Universally Known, guess what?, it isn't.

I could understand if you tried really hard, and spent many years praying for their conversion without any positive results.

But you can not put every NO person who knows nothing YET about the Traditionalist Movement into the same Bag, and like I said, there are Millions of them.

When was the last time you travelled abroad?

TKGS · « **Reply #12 on:** February 10, 2011, 10:48:40 AM »

Quote from: DoubtingThomas

You shouldn't speak of NO people as if they would be Muslims, Buddhists, or Jєωs. It's just not fair, and it's not their fault.

Like I said before...

You seem to think that the Traditionalist Movement is Universally Known, guess what?, it isn't.

I could understand if you tried really hard, and spent many years praying for their conversion without any positive results.

But you can not put every NO person who knows nothing YET about the Traditionalist Movement into the same Bag, and like I said, there are Millions of them.

I think you are mistaken here. Actually, the traditional Catholic should treat the Novus Ordo Catholic (I prefer the term "Conciliar Catholic") just as one would treat the Muslim, Buddhist, Jєω, or Protestant. They are all in need of conversion.

It is true that some are open to the faith, but many are not. Those who have the faith know something is wrong in the Conciliar Church and, while they usually won't immediately embrace the True Faith and the Catholic religion, it will stick with them and a well-formed conscience will eventually call them to tradition.

Traditional Catholicism is definitely NOT known in Conciliar circles. I grew up in an area that had numerous traditional Catholic communities yet I never heard of them. It didn't help that my parents subscribed to The Wanderer and that publication solemnly warned its readers against the SSPX.

Clearly, one should not shun Conciliar Catholics, but rather, one should pray for them and introduce, according to their understanding, the traditional Catholic religion. What one should not do, however, is to "go along just to get along." If they are not "open" to traditional Catholicism, don't condemn (unless they demand your acceptance of evil, such as, their divorce and remarriage or their sodomite lover, etc.); but rather, give a good example of true Christian charity. Above all, pray for yourself and for them.

DoubtingThomas · « **Reply #13 on:** February 10, 2011, 11:17:22 AM »

Quote from: TKGS

It is true that some are open to the faith, but many are not. Those who have the faith know something is wrong in the Conciliar Church and, while they usually won't immediately embrace the True Faith and the Catholic religion, it will stick with them and a well-formed conscience will eventually call them to tradition.

That's what I'm saying. I know a lot of Catholics who would not hesitate to become Traditionalists, and I'm doing my part, I'm sharing the info.

The problem I see is not that the people would reject the Traditionalist Movement, the problem I see is that the Traditionalist Movement has not reached a lot of Catholics like them yet.

Putting them on a Box together with Protestants do not help, that's isolation. I can't imagine St. Paul keeping it just among His closest Friends...

Matthew · « **Reply #14 on:** February 10, 2011, 11:42:09 AM »

Quote from: parentsfortruth

My entire extended family is novus ordo. Some of them, you just can't talk to. Others you do talk to, end up talking to the novus ordo part of the family, and get re-brainwashed. It's totally counterproductive.

To say that they "can't help it," ain't necessarily so.

Some of these people are so comfortable with their "special" layperson duties that they've been given. It's almost like a police officer with a new shiny badge, that is on a power trip. You can't talk to most of them.

I was novus ordo until I was 14. Fortunately I was caught early enough (and JUST IN TIME) before I was completely brainwashed and would have lost my faith.

Our extended family ostracized us because they claimed we "weren't Catholic." My grandmother was the primary culprit. Her little matriarchy lead to the ruin of the rest of the family, and their complete unwillingness to listen to the truth.

We still don't have a relationship with them, although, I have tried to talk to some of my cousins (of which I have 88, last time I counted, probably more) but they're so brainwashed most of the time, they dismiss you as a loon.

I would say it wouldn't be the "fault" of the younger people, but for the OLDER people that experienced what it was to be a Catholic before the changes, to outright dismiss and reject those that cling to the faith as "schismatics" and whatever lame label they want to place on "traditionalists" leads people to believe they totally reject the faith with their own free will, and choose the erroneous path of the newchurch.

You're onto something here, PFT.

When you meet a "Novus Ordo Catholic" who hates/rejects/despises Tradition, you really have someone who rejects the FAITH (there's no "Traditional Catholic", strictly speaking -- just Catholic) and chooses man -- fellowship, approval, respect, honors, pleasures -- rather than God.

When someone talks about how "hard" our Traditional Catholicism sounds -- that's one of the bad signs. It means they suspect it's true, but won't embrace it because they have inordinate attachments.

In this sense, the Novus Ordo IS a competing, false religion.

This illustrates just how severe the Crisis in the Church is; the Novus Ordo religion is probably one of the worst false religions there is! Here is why: No other has the name "Catholic", which serves as a shield for the bad-willed to defend themselves against their own conscience, even when they know something is wrong.

The problem is, you can't write off ALL Novus Ordo Catholics as being in this category. That is a simplistic mistake that many, unfortunately, make.

Speaking about "conversion" of N.O. Catholics is a tricky subject. On the one hand, they DO need conversion in a way, to see if they will choose God or man when faced with the choice. But, nevertheless, some can be deluded by their priest, the Catholic name they bear, etc. and be genuinely convinced that traditionalists are too extreme.

That's why, in the end, only God can judge.

Matthew