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Author Topic: Would supplied jurisdiction suffice for this?  (Read 948 times)

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Offline Cryptinox

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Would supplied jurisdiction suffice for this?
« on: November 17, 2023, 06:16:55 PM »
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    • I took an oath to God at the insistence of my mother back when I was 16 but I only intended on it lasting until I turned 18 but I didn't specify that in the oath. Because of this, I wish to loose myself from it so I want to get a priest to loose me of being bound to said oath? Could jurisdiction be supplied in said case?
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    I recant many opinions on the crisis in the Church and moral theology that I have espoused on here from at least 2019-2021 don't take my postings from that time as well as 2022 possibly too seriously.

    Offline TheRealMcCoy

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    Re: Would supplied jurisdiction suffice for this?
    « Reply #1 on: November 17, 2023, 06:31:19 PM »
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    •  Why would you not be able to break your own oath?

     Why do you want to break the oath?
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    Offline TKGS

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    Re: Would supplied jurisdiction suffice for this?
    « Reply #2 on: November 17, 2023, 06:33:25 PM »
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    • Speak with a good traditional priest.  He will know the answer to this question.
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    Offline Univocity

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    Re: Would supplied jurisdiction suffice for this?
    « Reply #3 on: November 17, 2023, 06:53:03 PM »
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    • It depends on the specific oath or private vow taken.  For example, the commuting of a private vow of perpetual celibacy is reserved to the Holy See.  The same holds for a private vow to enter a major Religious Order.  There are 5 such vows but I dont recall them right now.  Other private vows can be commuted (not removed per se) by ANY confessor.  talk to a traditional priest in the confessional. 
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    Offline ElwinRansom1970

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    Re: Would supplied jurisdiction suffice for this?
    « Reply #4 on: November 18, 2023, 05:59:43 AM »
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    • You are in a difficult situation. Merely talking to a traditional priest may ot be enough. You may need recourse to clergy with jurisdiction because ecclesia supplet has no applicability in this circuмstance.

    Do you live in a location where you would have access to a priest of an Eastern Catholic Church?
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    Offline TheRealMcCoy

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    Re: Would supplied jurisdiction suffice for this?
    « Reply #5 on: November 18, 2023, 06:06:16 AM »
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    • I'm surprised that an oath taken by a minor child under pressure of his mother would be binding in any way.
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    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Would supplied jurisdiction suffice for this?
    « Reply #6 on: November 18, 2023, 06:10:14 AM »
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    • I’d email Fr. Peter Scott.  He loves to answer moral questions, and is quite good at doing so.

    My take would be that your intention to only be bound until 18 is inextricable from the vow itself, since God, knowing your intention, would not ask or expect an extension of it beyond what you intended to offer Him.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Would supplied jurisdiction suffice for this?
    « Reply #7 on: November 18, 2023, 07:52:46 AM »
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    • Quote from: TheRealMcCoy on November 18, 2023, 06:06:16 AM
    I'm surprised that an oath taken by a minor child under pressure of his mother would be binding in any way.

    I don't think it would be.  Also, any oath someone takes on their own, before God, vs. before a priest or someone authorized to hear and accept such a vow, would be inherently private, and I should think that any Confessor could dispense from such an oath.  I would bet that if you went to a well-trained confessor, he would tell you that you're not bound by this oath or would release your conscience therefrom.  Also, if the vow was for something wrong or bad, you're certainly not under any obligation to keep it, since God does not view such oaths as binding.

    I would agree to perhaps e-mail Father Peter Scott, as Sean suggested.  Perhaps Sean has Father Scott's e-mail and could share it with you by private message.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Would supplied jurisdiction suffice for this?
    « Reply #8 on: November 18, 2023, 07:55:03 AM »
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    • Quote from: SeanJohnson on November 18, 2023, 06:10:14 AM
    I’d email Fr. Peter Scott.  He loves to answer moral questions, and is quite good at doing so.

    My take would be that your intention to only be bound until 18 is inextricable from the vow itself, since God, knowing your intention, would not ask or expect an extension of it beyond what you intended to offer Him.

    Right.  Between his intention and the fact that it sounded like it was taken under pressure, I would think it's no longer binding.  And this is a private vow.  For a vow to be public, it has to have been done before and receive by a competent authority.  As such, I'm pretty sure that your confessor could just dispense you from it anyway.  OP could just bring it up next time he has a chance to go to Confession.  People make private vows all the time, sometimes due to some fleeting fancy, and it's my understanding that any confessor can simply dispense from these.  "I vow to never eat meat again." ... after reading some book on the lives of the saints.
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    Offline Mithrandylan

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    Re: Would supplied jurisdiction suffice for this?
    « Reply #9 on: November 18, 2023, 08:25:31 AM »
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    • If you explicitly intended, at the time you took the oath, for it to have an expiration date or condition-- then it has an expiration date or condition. Even if that was not explicitly stated in the oath or vow (although in future, it is a good thing to explicitly express these things in writing or verbally, according to the form of the vow or oath--since at least in some instances failing to express such conditions can make a vow or oath invalid, or even count as a sin against the 8th commandment).
    .
    If the expiration date or condition was not thought up until after the oath or vow was taken, then it's a different matter.
    .
    I'm basing this on the Church's attitude toward marriage vows. If someone has an interior contradictory intention, condition, or expiration date for their vow then this factors as evidence to the nature and character of the vow.

    ETA: supplied jurisdiction has nothing at all to do with it. 
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    Offline Cryptinox

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    Re: Would supplied jurisdiction suffice for this?
    « Reply #10 on: November 18, 2023, 09:12:31 AM »
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    • Quote from: Mithrandylan on November 18, 2023, 08:25:31 AM
    If you explicitly intended, at the time you took the oath, for it to have an expiration date or condition-- then it has an expiration date or condition. Even if that was not explicitly stated in the oath or vow (although in future, it is a good thing to explicitly express these things in writing or verbally, according to the form of the vow or oath--since at least in some instances failing to express such conditions can make a vow or oath invalid, or even count as a sin against the 8th commandment).
    .
    If the expiration date or condition was not thought up until after the oath or vow was taken, then it's a different matter.
    .
    I'm basing this on the Church's attitude toward marriage vows. If someone has an interior contradictory intention, condition, or expiration date for their vow then this factors as evidence to the nature and character of the vow.

    ETA: supplied jurisdiction has nothing at all to do with it.
    I mentioned supplied jurisdiction because I want to be released from the oath
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    Offline Mithrandylan

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    Re: Would supplied jurisdiction suffice for this?
    « Reply #11 on: November 18, 2023, 09:50:27 AM »
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    • Quote from: Cryptinox on November 18, 2023, 09:12:31 AM
    I mentioned supplied jurisdiction because I want to be released from the oath
    .
    If the nature of the oath was bound to time or a specific condition, then it ceases once that time has passed or that specific condition was meant. Jurisdiction doesn't factor into it unless it was an oath or vow made to a religious superior. 
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    "Be kind; do not seek the malicious satisfaction of having discovered an additional enemy to the Church... And, above all, be scrupulously truthful. To all, friends and foes alike, give that serious attention which does not misrepresent any opinion, does not distort any statement, does not mutilate any quotation. We need not fear to serve the cause of Christ less efficiently by putting on His spirit". (Vermeersch, 1913).
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