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Author Topic: Women’s pants  (Read 3034 times)

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Offline HeidtXtreme

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Women’s pants
« on: July 21, 2025, 04:22:54 PM »
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  • Are there any direct declarations from a Pope or the Holy See that says explicitly that women should not wear pants? I have a hard time refuting the pro-pants argument that Rome never mentioned it specifically. I know Padre Pio and Cardinal Siri’s rules, but I was looking for a statement with binding authority on the matter.

    Offline Seraphina

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    Re: Women’s pants
    « Reply #1 on: July 21, 2025, 04:29:25 PM »
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  • Not that I know of. In the western (Christianized) world, pants came to be associated with men while women continued to wear robes. After all, Jesus and the disciples did not wear pants. Both sexes wore robes of some sort, but there was always a way to distinguish male from female clothing. Mary and Joseph did not swap out each other’s clothing! 


    Offline moneil

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    Re: Women’s pants
    « Reply #2 on: July 21, 2025, 04:46:24 PM »
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  • Not that I know of. In the western (Christianized) world, pants came to be associated with men while women continued to wear robes. After all, Jesus and the disciples did not wear pants. Both sexes wore robes of some sort, but there was always a way to distinguish male from female clothing. Mary and Joseph did not swap out each other’s clothing!
    I am simple making an observation, not expressing an opinion.  In the image below Our Lord has a beard and his head is uncovered.  Our Lady is wearing a veil.  One is obviously male and one obviously female.  I discern no distinguishing difference in their clothing.

    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Women’s pants
    « Reply #3 on: July 21, 2025, 04:55:47 PM »
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  • Are there any direct declarations from a Pope or the Holy See that says explicitly that women should not wear pants? I have a hard time refuting the pro-pants argument that Rome never mentioned it specifically. I know Padre Pio and Cardinal Siri’s rules, but I was looking for a statement with binding authority on the matter.
    Women only (widely) began wearing pants in the 1960s, and Cardinal Siri spoke out about it, in great detail.  The reason why Rome didn't speak up is because they were all battling it out over V2, which began in 1963. 

    People who are arguing that it's ok because "the Church hasn't said no" are obviously ignoring Our Lady of Fatima's warnings from 1917 about "certain fashions will be introduced".  And then they are also ignoring Cardinal Siri.  They won't be able to ignore the Judgement day, that's for sure.

    Offline Catholic Knight

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    Re: Women’s pants
    « Reply #4 on: July 22, 2025, 06:47:16 AM »
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  • Women only (widely) began wearing pants in the 1960s, and Cardinal Siri spoke out about it, in great detail.  The reason why Rome didn't speak up is because they were all battling it out over V2, which began in 1963. 

    People who are arguing that it's ok because "the Church hasn't said no" are obviously ignoring Our Lady of Fatima's warnings from 1917 about "certain fashions will be introduced".  And then they are also ignoring Cardinal Siri.  They won't be able to ignore the Judgement day, that's for sure.

    Will you please supply a link to Cardinal Siri's position on this?


    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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    Re: Women’s pants
    « Reply #5 on: July 22, 2025, 07:50:04 AM »
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  • Douay-Rheims Bible

    A woman shall not be clothed with man's apparel, neither shall a man use woman's apparel : for he that doeth these things is abominable before God.

    Deuteronomy 22:5
    May God bless you and keep you

    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Women’s pants
    « Reply #6 on: July 22, 2025, 08:08:45 AM »
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  • Will you please supply a link to Cardinal Siri's position on this?
    I don't have it.  It was posted on here long ago.  Use search.

    Offline Boru

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    Re: Women’s pants
    « Reply #7 on: July 22, 2025, 08:41:35 AM »
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  • Douay-Rheims Bible

    A woman shall not be clothed with man's apparel, neither shall a man use woman's apparel : for he that doeth these things is abominable before God.

    Deuteronomy 22:5
    I believe the meaning behind this is that a male should not aim to dress as if he were a woman and visa versa. As for individual pieces of clothing, it depends on why you wear them. If its to be less dangerous on a horse, for example, then your aim is not to dress as if you were a man - to look more manly - but rather to be safe. Common sense should always dictate. That said, we do live in an age where fashion mongols are pushing for an androgynous and immodest look. This tells us that we need to make a stand against this push, and encourage ourselves and our daughters to dress in a classy, distinctively feminine way that encourages us to walk, sit and conduct ourselves with grace. And without question, it is easier for a girl to be more modest in a nice A-line skirt than even baggy pants. But it goes deeper than that. Satan has a pathological hatred against women because it will be 'her' that will crush his head with her heel. That is why he wants to dismantle and destroy womanhood and render her obsolete. Wearing pants as the norm instead of skirts is certainly one of the first steps in that direction.


    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Women’s pants
    « Reply #8 on: July 22, 2025, 09:00:29 AM »
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  • I believe the meaning behind this is that a male should not aim to dress as if he were a woman and visa versa.... As for individual pieces of clothing, it depends on why you wear them....  Wearing pants as the norm instead of skirts is certainly one of the first steps in that direction.
    Your thoughts are reducing the matter to 'intention' which is subjective.  But Scripture does not include allowances for intention; it says "shall not".  Neither does Cardinal Siri make allowances for "intention".  And the age-old loophole that "you need to wear pants if you're riding a horse or doing farm work."  Well, in the 1800s, it was considered unladylike for women to ride horses, as a man does.  And plenty of women have done farm work (and even hiked and swam) in dresses.  Intention is not part of the equation.

    Offline Boru

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    Re: Women’s pants
    « Reply #9 on: July 22, 2025, 10:01:33 AM »
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  • Your thoughts are reducing the matter to 'intention' which is subjective.  But Scripture does not include allowances for intention; it says "shall not".  Neither does Cardinal Siri make allowances for "intention".  And the age-old loophole that "you need to wear pants if you're riding a horse or doing farm work."  Well, in the 1800s, it was considered unladylike for women to ride horses, as a man does.  And plenty of women have done farm work (and even hiked and swam) in dresses.  Intention is not part of the equation.
    "Shalt not be clothed with man's apparel..."  The meaning is not directed at 'pants' per say as a piece of individual clothing but in the broader sense of "dressing as a man" in masculine attire. My intent to put on trousers to back a horse, is not to attire myself as a man, but to ensure that my clothing doesn't cause me to become ensnared in the saddle and break my neck. Gone are the days when you can pick up a side-saddle for cheap. And this is where common sense comes into play. The last time I checked the calendar it was 2025. You cannot apply the norms of the 1800's to the here and now. That is YOU dictating. Regardless of when they were introduced, today, pants are considered both male and female apparel. As such, although we should be encouraging a more feminine way of dressing, making 'pants' a cardinal sin in itself, and reaching for your stones, is turning Catholicism into a pharisaical religion.

    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Women’s pants
    « Reply #10 on: July 22, 2025, 10:33:52 AM »
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  • "Shalt not be clothed with man's apparel..."  The meaning is not directed at 'pants' per say as a piece of individual clothing but in the broader sense of "dressing as a man" in masculine attire.
    Pants have been man's attire since the day they were invented (600s BC).  So that's 2,600 years.
    Women have only worn pants since 1960 -- 60 years.
    2,600 years vs 60 years.  Do the math.

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    My intent to put on trousers to back a horse, is not to attire myself as a man, but to ensure that my clothing doesn't cause me to become ensnared in the saddle and break my neck. Gone are the days when you can pick up a side-saddle for cheap. And this is where common sense comes into play. 

    The exception proves the rule.  If you want to argue that in SPECIFIC circuмstances, it's ok to wear pants, fine.  This is about 1% of ones' time.  99% of the time, you're not working with horses.  ...Unless you're a horse worker, which again, is only about 1% of the population (probably less).  

    99% of the time, the 99% of women have no need to wear pants.

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    The last time I checked the calendar it was 2025. You cannot apply the norms of the 1800's to the here and now.
    :facepalm:  Morals don't change.  The 10 commandments don't change.  God doesn't change.  Your argument is Modernist.

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    That is YOU dictating.

    No, it's God dictating.  It's Scripture teaching.  It's Our Lady of Fatima's warnings.  It's Cardinal Siri preaching.  ...I'm just explaining it to you.

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    Regardless of when they were introduced, today, pants are considered both male and female apparel.
    :facepalm:  A godless society does not get to re-write God's rules.  Catholics don't live their lives based on "what is considered normal" by anti-catholic people.  Can't believe you're making this argument.

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    As such, although we should be encouraging a more feminine way of dressing, making 'pants' a cardinal sin in itself, and reaching for your stones, is turning Catholicism into a pharisaical religion.
    If women wore pants in the 1950s (or anytime PRIOR to this), there would be shock and scandal.  Let that sink in.  

    Your arguments are Modernist...that morals can change over time.  No, they can't.  Pants have always been men's attire.  From day 1.


    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Women’s pants
    « Reply #11 on: July 22, 2025, 10:46:25 AM »
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    My intent to put on trousers to back a horse, is not to attire myself as a man, but to ensure that my clothing doesn't cause me to become ensnared in the saddle and break my neck. Gone are the days when you can pick up a side-saddle for cheap. And this is where common sense comes into play. 
    So when you're not working with horses, or doing farming activities, or yard work, etc....are you wearing non-pants the rest of the time?  

    Offline Seraphina

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    Re: Women’s pants
    « Reply #12 on: July 22, 2025, 11:50:55 AM »
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  • My calendar also indicates it’s 2025, not 1825, 1525, 1025, 125, or 25. It’s certainly not the time of Moses, either.  Clothing customs change over time and between cultures.  What doesn’t change are the principles of God’s Word. Throughout time and across cultures, there have, until recently, different clothing for men and for women, whatever outward form they may take. Our Lord and Our Lady call for Catholics to wear clothing that is modest, suitable to one’s sex, suitable to one’s age, and to one’s state in life. Clothing, in addition to meeting these qualifications, must be practical for the activity of the wearer. 
    When Our Lady about “certain fashions,” she did not specify what they were or for which sex.  She did not limit the fashions to clothing, either. Could fashions not apply also to accessories, to hair styles, to the manner of carrying oneself?  
    Within Christ-like and Mary-like appearance, there is wiggle room. Ask yourself, am I modest? Obviously male or female? Dressed in accord with my state in life? Dressed appropriately for my activity? For the climate?  Am I age appropriate? Are my clothes suited to my culture, or do I draw unnecessary attention to myself?  The same should be asked of my hair style, makeup, jewelry, accessories like hats, gloves, scarves, etc.
    Whether some trads like it or not, there IS no standardized “Traditional Catholic Uniform” for all but religious orders and organized institutions like schools and certain clubs. Many uniforms are reserved for specific times, like during school hours, on the job, or to club meetings. 


    Offline Gray2023

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    Re: Women’s pants
    « Reply #13 on: July 22, 2025, 11:54:02 AM »
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  • I am guessing that the point that is being lost is that a woman putting on a dress in 2025 is not going to change her heart and suddenly make her behave as God intended.

    There needs to be a conversion of heart.  What that is, or what that will look like, I have no idea.  The only thing we can do as Catholics is pray and sacrifice and plant whatever seeds we can in society.
    1 Corinthians: Chapter 13 "4 Charity is patient, is kind: charity envieth not, dealeth not perversely; is not puffed up; 5 Is not ambitious, seeketh not her own, is not provoked to anger, thinketh no evil;"

    Offline Gray2023

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    Re: Women’s pants
    « Reply #14 on: July 22, 2025, 11:54:33 AM »
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  • My calendar also indicates it’s 2025, not 1825, 1525, 1025, 125, or 25. It’s certainly not the time of Moses, either.  Clothing customs change over time and between cultures.  What doesn’t change are the principles of God’s Word. Throughout time and across cultures, there have, until recently, different clothing for men and for women, whatever outward form they may take. Our Lord and Our Lady call for Catholics to wear clothing that is modest, suitable to one’s sex, suitable to one’s age, and to one’s state in life. Clothing, in addition to meeting these qualifications, must be practical for the activity of the wearer.
    When Our Lady about “certain fashions,” she did not specify what they were or for which sex.  She did not limit the fashions to clothing, either. Could fashions not apply also to accessories, to hair styles, to the manner of carrying oneself? 
    Within Christ-like and Mary-like appearance, there is wiggle room. Ask yourself, am I modest? Obviously male or female? Dressed in accord with my state in life? Dressed appropriately for my activity? For the climate?  Am I age appropriate? Are my clothes suited to my culture, or do I draw unnecessary attention to myself?  The same should be asked of my hair style, makeup, jewelry, accessories like hats, gloves, scarves, etc.
    Whether some trads like it or not, there IS no standardized “Traditional Catholic Uniform” for all but religious orders and organized institutions like schools and certain clubs. Many uniforms are reserved for specific times, like during school hours, on the job, or to club meetings.
    This ^^^
    1 Corinthians: Chapter 13 "4 Charity is patient, is kind: charity envieth not, dealeth not perversely; is not puffed up; 5 Is not ambitious, seeketh not her own, is not provoked to anger, thinketh no evil;"