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Offline SouthernBelle

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Women wearing pants
« Reply #15 on: August 09, 2011, 03:21:17 PM »
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  • No, it is not a sin to wear pants, and the article linked does not say that.

    The topic is the differentiation in clothing between men and women and how blurring those distinctions can cause problems. Cardinal Siri is writing from a Western European standpoint, where pants were traditionally worn by men and dresses/skirts by women.

    I think this article is almost prophetic, and it was my primary impetus towards dressing almost exclusively in dresses/skirts.


    Offline Darcy

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    Women wearing pants
    « Reply #16 on: August 09, 2011, 05:02:10 PM »
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  • Joan of Arc was burned at the stake for wearing pants.


    Offline Sigismund

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    Women wearing pants
    « Reply #17 on: August 09, 2011, 09:22:42 PM »
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  • Yes.  SAINT Joan of Arc.
    Stir up within Thy Church, we beseech Thee, O Lord, the Spirit with which blessed Josaphat, Thy Martyr and Bishop, was filled, when he laid down his life for his sheep: so that, through his intercession, we too may be moved and strengthen by the same Spir

    Offline MrsZ

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    Women wearing pants
    « Reply #18 on: August 11, 2011, 02:27:51 PM »
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  • Was St. Joan of Arc really burned at the stake because she wore pants??  Also, was it "pants" she was wearing or a suit of armor / soldier's attire?

    Offline SouthernBelle

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    Women wearing pants
    « Reply #19 on: August 11, 2011, 04:20:04 PM »
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  • Quote from: Darcy
    Joan of Arc was burned at the stake for wearing pants.



    I'm not really sure what this has to do with the link, or the question. It is not a sin to wear pants today, and it wasn't during the time of Cardinal Siri.


    Offline Darcy

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    Women wearing pants
    « Reply #20 on: August 11, 2011, 07:06:51 PM »
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  • Quote from: MrsZ
    Was St. Joan of Arc really burned at the stake because she wore pants??  Also, was it "pants" she was wearing or a suit of armor / soldier's attire?


    From the trial of St. Joan of Arc

    Quote
    "Who counseled you to take a man's dress?"

    To this question she several times refused to answer. "In the end, she said: "With that I charge no one."

    Many times she varied in her answers to this question. Then she said:

    "Robert de Baudricourt made those who went with me swear to conduct me well and safely. 'Go,' said Robert de Baudricourt to me, 'Go! and let come what may!' I know well that God loves the Duke d'Orleans; I have had more revelations about the Duke d'Orleans than about any man alive, except my King. It was necessary for me to change my woman's garments for a man's dress. My counsel thereon said well.

    .....

    "Would you like to have a woman's dress?"

    "Give me one, and I will take it and begone; otherwise, no. I am content with what I have, since it pleases God that I wear it."

    .....

    "Was it God who prescribed to you the dress of a man?"

    "What concerns this dress is a small thing - less than nothing. I did not take it by the advice of any man in the world. I did not take this dress or do anything but by the command of Our Lord and of the Angels."

    "Did it appear to you that this command to take man's dress was lawful?"

    "All I have done is by Our Lord's command. If I had been told to take some other, I should have done it; because it would have been His command."

    "Did you not take this garment by order of Robert de Baudricourt?"

    "No."

    "Do you think it was well to take a man's dress?"

    "All that I have done by the order of Our Lord I think has been well done; I look for good surety and good help in it."

    "In this particular case, this taking of man's dress, do you think you did well?"

    "I have done nothing in the world but by the order of God."

    .....

    "When you first came to the King, did he ask you if you had any revelation about your change of dress?"

    "I have answered you about that. I do not remember if I was asked. It is written at Poitiers."

    "Do you not remember if the Masters who questioned you in the other Consistory, some during a month, others during three weeks, questioned you about your change of dress?"

    "I do not remember. But they asked me where I had assumed this man's dress; and I told them it was at Vaucouleurs."

    "Did the aforesaid Masters ask you if it were by order of your Voice that you took this dress?"

    "I do not remember."

    .....

    "Do you think that you would have done wrong or committed mortal sin by taking a woman's dress ?"

    "I did better to obey and serve my Sovereign Lord, who is God. Had I dared to do it, I would sooner have done it at the request of these ladies than of any other ladies in France, excepting my Queen."

    "When God revealed it to you that you should change your dress, was it by the voice of Saint Michael, Saint Catherine, or Saint Margaret?"

    "You shall not have anything more at present."

    ......

    "Did you receive the said Sacraments in man's dress?"

    "Yes; but I do not remember ever to have received them armed."

    .....

    "Was it at the request of Robert de Baudricourt or of yourself that you took man's dress ?"

    "It was of myself, and at the request of no living man."

    "Did your Voices command you to take man's dress?"

    "All that I have done of good, I have done by the command of my Voices. As to the dress, I will answer about it another time: at present I am not advised, but tomorrow I will answer."

    "In taking man's dress, did you think you were doing wrong ?"

    "No; even now if I were with those of my own side and in this man's dress, it seems to me it would be a great good for France to do as I did before I was taken."

    .....

    "We recall to you: That you attacked Paris on a Feast Day; That you had the horse of my Lord the Bishop of Senlis; That you threw yourself down from the Tower of Beaurevoir; That you wear a man's dress; That you consented to the death of Franquet d'Arras: do you not think you have committed mortal sin in these?"

    "For what concerns the attack on Paris, I do not think myself to be in mortal sin; if I have so done, it is for God to know it, and the Priest in confession. As to the horse of my Lord the Bishop of Senlis, I firmly believe I have not sinned against Our Lord: the horse was valued at 200 gold crowns, of which he received assignment; nevertheless, this horse was sent back to the Sire de la Tremouille, to restore it to my Lord of Senlis; it was not fit for me to ride; besides, it was not I who took it; and, moreover, I did not wish to keep it, having heard that the Bishop was displeased that it had been taken from him, and, beyond all this, the horse was of no use for warfare. I do not know if the Bishop was paid, nor if his horse was restored to him; I think not. As to my fall from the Tower at Beaurevoir, I did not do it in despair, but thinking to save myself and to go to the help of all those brave folk who were in danger. After my fall, I confessed myself and asked pardon. God has forgiven me, not for any good in me: I did wrong, but I know by revelation from Saint Catherine that, after the confession I made, I was forgiven. It was by the counsel of Saint Catherine that I confessed myself."

    "Did you do penance for it?"

    "Yes, and my penance came to me in great part from the harm I did myself in falling. You ask me if I believe this wrong which I did in leaping to be mortal sin? I know nothing about it, but refer me to God. As to my dress, since I bear it by command of God and for His service, I do not think I have done wrong at all; so soon as it shall please God to prescribe it, I will take it off.

    .....

    "When you asked to hear Mass, did it not seem to you that it would be more proper to be in female dress? Which would you prefer, to have a woman's dress to hear Mass, or to remain in a man's dress and not hear it?"

    "Give me assurance beforehand that I shall hear Mass if I am in female attire, and I will answer you this."

    "Very well, I give you assurance of it: you shall hear Mass if you put on female attire."

    "And what say you, if I have sworn and promised to our King my Master, not to put off this dress? Well, I will answer you this: Have made for me a long dress down to the ground, without a train; give it to me to go to Mass, and then on my return I will put on again the dress I have."

    "I say it to you once again, do you consent to wear female attire to go and hear Mass?"

    "I will take counsel on this, and then I will answer you: but I beseech you, for the honor of God and Our Lady, permit me to hear Mass in this good town."

    "You consent simply and absolutely to take female attire?"

    "Send me a dress like a daughter of your citizens that is to say, a long 'houppeland.' I will wear it to go and hear Mass. I beseech you as earnestly as I can, permit me to hear it in the dress I wear at this moment and without changing anything!"(4)....( In the Minute: "mesme le chaperon de femme.")

    .....

    On the subject of the passage relative to her dress, she said in addition :

    "Give me a woman's dress to go and rejoin my mother; I will take it that I may get out of prison, because when I am outside I will consider as to what I should do."

    .....

    We told her, that many times already and notably yesterday, she had requested, because of the solemnity of these days and the time, that she might be permitted to hear Mass today, Palm Sunday; in consequence, We were come to ask her if, supposing this favor were accorded to her. she would consent to put off her man's dress, and to take the dress of a woman, as formerly she had been accustomed to wear it in her birth-place, and as worn by all the women of her country?

    The said Jeanne answered by again asking of Us permission to hear Mass in the dress she now wears, and in the same dress to receive the Eucharist on Easter Day.

    "Reply," We said to her, "to what we ask you; tell us, in the event of your being permitted to hear Mass, if you will consent to abandon the dress you wear."

    "I have not consulted thereon," she said, "and cannot yet take a woman's dress."

    "Do you wish to have counsel of your Saints to know if you ought to take woman's garments?"

    "May I not then," she said, "be permitted to hear Mass in the state in which I am? I desire it ardently! As to changing my dress, I cannot: it is not in my power."

    All the Assessors then joined themselves with Us, and each exhorted her, for so great a benefit, and to satisfy the feeling of devotion with which she seemed animated, to consent to take the only garment which was suitable to her sex.

    "That," she declared, "is not in my power: if it were, it would soon be done!"

    "Speak of it to your Voices," said the Assessors, "to know if you may again take your woman's dress, in order that at Easter you may receive the Viaticuм."

    "I cannot change my dress: I cannot therefore receive the Viaticuм. I beg of you, my Lords, permit me to hear Mass in man's dress; this dress does not weigh upon my soul, and is not contrary to the laws of the Church."

    .....

    ACT OF ACCUSATION PREPARED BY THE PROMOTER

    THE SEVENTY ARTICLES


    ARTICLE 12

    In order the more openly and better to attain her end, Jeanne asked of Robert de Baudricourt to have made for her a man's dress and armor appropriate. This captain, with great repugnance, ended by acquiescing in her request. These garments and armor made and furnished, Jeanne, rejecting and abandoning women's clothing, her hair cut en-round like a young coxcomb, took shirt, breeches, doublet, with hose joined together and fastened to the said doublet by twenty points, long leggings laced on the outside, a short mantle [surcoat] to the knees, or thereabouts, close-cut cap, tight-fitting boots or buskins, long spurs, sword, dagger, breastplate, lance and other arms in fashion of a man of war, affirming that in this she was executing the order of God, as had been prescribed to her by revelation.

    "What have you to say on this Article?"

    "I refer to what I said before."

    "Did you then take this costume, these arms, and all this warlike apparel by the order of God?"

    "On this also I refer to what I said before." (10)....(Cf. 2nd Public Examination, February 22nd; 4th Public Examination, February 27th; 3rd Private Examination, March 12th; and 8th Private Examination, March 17th.)

    .....

    ARTICLE 13

    Jeanne attributes to God, His Angels and His Saints, orders which are against the modesty of the sex, and which are prohibited by the Divine Law, things abominable to God and man, interdicted on pain of anathema by ecclesiastical censure, such as dressing herself in the garments of a man, short, tight, dissolute, those underneath as well as above. It is in virtue of these pretended orders that she had attired herself in sumptuous and stately raiment, cloth-of-gold and furs; and not only did she wear short tunics, but she dressed herself in tabards, and garments open at both sides; and it is notorious that she was taken prisoner in a loose cloak of cloth-of-gold. She was always seen with a cap on her head, her hair cut short and a-round in the style of a man. In one word, putting aside the modesty of her sex, she acted not only against all feminine decency, but even against the reserve which men of good morals, wearing ornaments and garments which only profligate men are accustomed to use, and going so far as to carry arms of offense. To attribute all this to the order of God, to the order which had been transmitted to her by the Angels and even by Virgin Saints, is to blaspheme God and His Saints, to destroy the Divine Law and violate the Canonical Rules; it is to libel the sex and its virtue, to overturn all decency, to justify all examples of dissolute living, and to drive others thereto.

    "What have you to say to this Article?"

    "I have not blasphemed God nor His Saints."(11)....(The two following questions and answers appear in the Minute only.) "But, Jeanne, the Holy Canons and Holy Writ declare that women who take men's dress or men who take women's dress, do a thing abominable to God. How then can you say that you took this dress at God's command?"

    "You have been answered. If you wish that I should answer you further, grant me delay, and I will answer you."

    "Will you not take the dress of a woman to receive your Savior on Easter Day?"

    "Neither for that nor for anything else will I yet put off my dress. I make no difference between man's dress and woman's dress for receiving my Savior. I ought not to be refused for this question of dress." (12)....(Cf. 4th Public Examination, February 27th, and 6th Public Examination, March 3rd.)

    .....

    ARTICLE 14

    Jeanne affirms that she has done right in attiring herself in garments worn only by dissolute men; she does profess that she will continue to retain them until she shall have received, by revelation, the express order of God: by this, she outrages God, the Angels, and the Saints.

    "What have you to say to this Article?"

    "I do no wrong in serving God; tomorrow I will answer you."

    [One of the Assessors]: "Did you have revelation or order to wear a man's dress?"

    "I have already answered that elsewhere. I refer to my previous sayings. To-morrow I will answer. I know well who made me take a man's dress; but I do not know how I can

    reveal it." (13)....(Cf. 3rd Public Examination, February 24th; 3rd Private Examination; March 12th; 8th Private Examination, March 17th. These questions and answers come after Article XIII. in the minute.)

    .....

    ARTICLE 15

    Jeanne, having many times asked that she might be permitted to hear Mass, had been invited to quit the dress she now wears and to take again her woman s dress; she had been allowed to hope that she will be admitted to hear Mass and to receive Communion, if she will renounce entirely the dress of a man and take that of a woman, as her sex; she had refused. In other words, she had chosen rather not to approach the Sacraments nor to assist in Divine Service, than to put aside her habit, pretending that this would displease God. In this appears her obstinacy, her hardness of heart, her lack of charity, her disobedience to the Church, and her contempt of Divine Sacraments.

    "What have you to say to this Article?"

    "I would rather die than revoke what I have done by the order of Our Lord."

    "Will you, to hear Mass, abandon the dress of a man?"

    "I will not abandon it yet; the time is not come. If you refuse to let me hear Mass, it is in the power of Our Lord to let me hear it, when it shall please Him, without you. I recollect being admonished to take again a woman's dress. As to the irreverence and such like things, I deny them."(14)....(Cf. 7th Private Examination, March 15th; 8th Private Examination, March 17th. After Article XV., the following sentence is inserted in the Extracts, but is not in the Procés. "She added that the Demoiselle de Luxembourg prayed the Seigneur de Luxembourg not to give her up to the English.")


    ARTICLE 16

    Previous to, and since her capture, at the Castle of Beaurevoir and at Arras, Jeanne had been many times advised with gentleness, by noble persons of both sexes, to give up her man's dress and resume suitable attire. She had absolutely refused, and to this day also she refuses with persistence; she disdains also to give herself up to feminine work, conducting herself in all things rather as a man than as a woman.

    "What have you to say on this Article?"

    "At Arras and Beaurevoir I was invited to take a woman's dress; then I refused, and I refuse still. As to the women's work of which you speak, there are plenty of other women to do it." (15)....(Cf. 6th Public Examination, March 3rd.)

    .....

    The next day, Wednesday, March 28th, in the same room, near the great Hall of the Castle of Rouen, before the Bishop and Brother Jean Lemaître, assisted by 35 Assessors.

    Before them had been resumed the reading, begun the preceding day, of the Articles in the docuмent produced by the Promoter. Their contents in French, being shown to Jeanne, Article by Article, she had been questioned on each of these Articles and had continued to reply, as here follow, after having anew sworn to speak truth on everything touching the Trial.(29)....(The following incident occurs in the Minute only) The Bishop, referring to the promise given on the previous day by Jeanne that she would answer on the subject of her dress, asks that, before proceeding with the reading, this answer may be given. To which Jeanne replies:

    "The dress and the arms that I wear, I wear by the permission of God: I will not leave them off without the permission of God, even if it cost me my head: but, if it should so please Our Lord, I will leave them off: I will not take a woman's dress if I have not permission from Our Savior."

    .....

    ARTICLE 32

    By this refusal to make known these pretended revelations, you may and should presume strongly that the revelations and visions of Jeanne, if she had them always, came to her from lying and evil spirits rather than from good. And all the world may take it for certain, considering her cruelty, her pride, her dress, her actions, her lies, the contradictions here given in various Articles, that all these together constitute in this respect the most powerful of presumptions, both of law and right.

    "What have you to say on this Article?"

    "I did it by revelation, from Saint Catherine and Saint Margaret; and I will maintain it even unto death.' If I put on my letters the names 'Jhesus Maria,' it was because I was advised to do so by certain persons of my party; sometimes I used these names, sometimes not.' As to that passage in my answer of which you remind me, "All that I did, I did by the counsel of Our Lord,' it should be completed thus: 'All that I did well.' "

    .....

    ARTICLE 40

    Forgetful of her salvation, impelled by the devil, she is not and had not been ashamed several times and in many and divers places to receive the Body of Christ, having upon her a man's dress of unseemly form, a dress which the Jaws of God and man do forbid her to wear.

    "What have you to say on this Article?"

    "I have answered elsewhere.' I rely upon what I have said before.' I rely upon Our Lord."(39)....(Cf. 6th Public Examination, March 3rd.)

    .....

    "I beseech Our Lord and Our Lady that they will send me counsel and comfort, and then They send it to me."

    "In what words do you beseech this?"

    "I say 'Most sweet Lord, in honor of Thy Holy Passion I beseech Thee, if You love me, that You wilt reveal to me how I should answer these Clergy. I know well, as regards this dress, the command by which I have taken it; but I do not know in what way I should leave it off: for this, may it please Thee to teach me.' And soon they come to me. I often by my Voices have news of my Lord of Beauvais."

    The Bishop: "What do your Voices say of Us?"

    "I will tell you apart. . . . To-day they came to me three times."

    "In your chamber?"

    "I have answered you; I hear them well. Saint Catherine and Saint Margaret have told me what I should say on the subject of my dress."(49)....(Cf. 3rd Public Examination, February 24th; 4th Public Examination, February 27th; 2nd Private Examination, March 12th; 4th Private Examination, March 13th; 5th Private Examination, March 14th.)

    .....

    THE TWELVE ARTICLES OF ACCUSATION.

    ARTICLE 1

    Besides this, she did say that Saint Catherine and Saint Margaret appeared and shown themselves to her adorned with most beautiful and most precious crowns. At this time and very often since, they have announced to her, by the order of God, that she was to go in search of a certain secular Prince, promising that, by her help and succor, this same Prince should, by force of arms, recover a great temporal domain and the honor of this world, and should obtain victory over his adversaries: this same Prince received her, and furnished her with arms and soldiers for the carrying out of what has just been said. Further, Saint Catherine and Saint Margaret have ordered this same woman, by the command of God, to take and to wear a man's dress, which she had borne and did still bear, persisting in obeying this order, to the extent that she said she would rather die than give up this dress, adding that she will only abandon it by the express order of God. She had even preferred not to assist in the Office of the Mass and to deprive herself of the Holy Communion of the Eucharist, at the time when the Church commands the faithful to receive it, rather than to resume female dress and to quit this man's habit.

    .....

    ARTICLE 5

    The same woman did say and affirm that, by the command and good pleasure of God, she had taken and borne and continues still to bear a man's dress. Further, she did say that, because she had had God's command to bear this habit, it was necessary that she should have a short tunic, cap, jerkin, breeches, hose with many points, hair cut close above her ears, keeping no garment which might indicate her sex. She did say and affirm that she had, in this dress, several times received the Sacrament of the Eucharist. She had not desired and did still not desire to resume woman's dress, although many times required and charitably admonished so to do. At times she said that she would rather die than leave off the dress which she bears; at times she said that she will leave it off only by the command of God. She did also say, that if she again found herself with this dress among those for whom she had armed herself she would act as she did before her capture; and this would be, she did add, one of the greatest benefits that could happen to the whole kingdom of France. Also, for nothing in the world will she swear to wear this dress or to take arms no more. In all this she did say that she had done and did well, obeying God and His Commandments.

    .....

    ARTICLE 7

    The same woman did say and confess that, being of the age of seventeen, by revelation, as she said, and spontaneously, she went to seek a Knight whom she had never seen, abandoning for this the paternal roof, against the will of her parents. These, when they had knowledge of her departure, were wild with grief. This same woman ordered the Knight to conduct her, or to have her conducted, to the Prince already mentioned. The said Knight, or Captain, furnished this woman, on her demand, with a man's dress and a sword, and appointed and commanded for her conduct a Knight, a Squire, and four servants. When they had come to the Prince, this woman told him that she wished to fight against his adversaries. She promised to establish him in great sovereignty and to vanquish his enemies; and for this she had been sent by the God of Heaven. She said she had acted well, having had revelation and the command of God.

    .....

    [Here follows, in the Original Docuмents, an Exhortation in Six Articles, addressed to Jeanne in the French language by the Archdeacon, on her submission to the Church, her dress, her Visions and Revelations.]

    On the subject of the 3rd Article, she replied:

    "As to my garments, I will indeed take a long dress and a woman's hood to go to Church and to receive there the Sacrament of the Eucharist - as I said elsewhere-provided that, directly after, I may put off that dress and take again what I bear at this moment. [And when it was suggested to her that she had taken this dress without necessity, especially while in prison, she said:] "When I have done that for which I am sent by God, I will resume woman's dress."

    "Do you think you do well to wear a man's dress?"

    "I refer me to Our Lord."

    "Will you leave off wearing this dress and the believing that you do right in wearing it? Will you resume a woman's dress?"

    "I will do nothing different."

    .....

    Exhortation made to Jeanne by the Deputy Inquisitor, in Prison.

    We, and the persons assisting us, did set forth before her how God had on this day had mercy on her, and how the Clergy had shown themselves merciful in receiving her to the Grace and pardon of Holy Mother Church. In return, it was right that she, Jeanne, should obey with humility the sentence and orders of the Judges and the Ecclesiastics; that she should wholly give up her errors and all her inventions, never to return to them: because, in case she should return to them, the Church could no longer admit her to pardon, and must abandon her altogether. We told her to leave off her man's dress and to take a woman's garments, as the Church had ordered her.

    In all our observations Jeanne did reply that she would willingly take woman's garments, and that in all things she would obey the Church.

    Woman's garments having been offered to her, she at once dressed herself in them, after having taken off the man's dress she was wearing; and her hair, which up to this time had been cut "en ronde" above her ears, she desired and permitted them to shave and take away.

    .....

    SECOND PROCESS: THE RELAPSE, THE FINAL ADJUDICATION AND THE SENTENCE OF DEATH


    Monday, May 28th, the day following Trinity Sunday.

    We, the aforesaid Judges, repaired to the place of Jeanne's prison, to learn the state and disposition of her soul. There were found with us the Lords and Masters Nicolas de Venderès, Guillaume Haiton, Thomas de Courcelles, Brother Ysambard de la Pierre; witnesses, Jacques Cannes, Nicolas Bertin, Julien Floquet and John Grey.

    And because Jeanne was dressed in the dress of a man - that is to say, a short mantle, a hood, a doublet and other effects used by men-although, by our orders, she had, several days before, consented to give up these garments, we asked her when and for what reason she had resumed this dress.(1)....(Several versions of the reasons which caused Jeanne to resume the forbidden dress were given in the evidence taken at the Rehabilitation, all purporting to have come from her. According to Massieu, her woman's dress was taken away while she was asleep, and the English soldiers refused to give it back to her, offering in its stead the man's dress she had previously worn, 'which they emptied from a sack.' She refused to wear it, reminding them that it was forbidden her; but at last, at midday, finding them deaf to her remonstrance, she was obliged to rise and attire herself in the prohibited garments. The Dominican Brothers declared that she had been assaulted by an English milord, as she told them, and that she therefore considered it necessary to return to the protection of her old dress; but considering the type of soldier in whose care she was placed, there seems no need to seek for any further explanation than her own, as given in the text, and as later corroborated by Manchon and De Courcelles. In the Rehabilitation Inquire, both Jean de Metz and de Poulengey claim to have suggested the male attire. At Poitiers, Jeanne herself stated that she had adopted it as most suitable to her work and the company she must share.)

    She answered us:

    "I have but now resumed the dress of a man and put off the woman's dress."

    "Why did you take it, and who made you take it?"

    "I took it of my own free will, and with no constraint: I prefer a man's dress to a woman's dress."

    "You promised and swore not to resume a man's dress."

    "I never meant to swear that I would not resume it."

    "Why have you resumed it?"

    "Because it is more lawful and suitable for me to resume it and to wear man's dress, being with men, than to have a woman's dress. I have resumed it because the promise made to me has not been kept; that is to say, that I should go to Mass and should receive my Savior and that I should be taken out of irons."

    "Did you not abjure and promise not to resume this dress?"


    If the Judges wish, I will resume a woman's dress ; for the rest, I can do no more."

    .....

    But since that day, driven by the Devil, behold! she had, in the presence of many persons, declared anew that her Voices and the spirits that appeared to her have returned to her, and have said many things to her; and, casting away her woman's dress she had again taken male garments. As soon as We, the Judges, did receive information of this lapse, We were eager to return to her and to question her.

    .....

    Death Sentence

    O, shame! -that, as the dog returns again to his vomit, so have you returned to your errors and crimes; and it had been proved to us in a most certain manner that you have renounced thy guilty inventions and thy errors only in a lying manner, not in a sincere and faithful spirit. For these causes, declaring thee fallen again into your old errors, and under the sentence of excommunication which you have formerly incurred, WE DECREE THAT YOU ART A RELAPSED HERETIC, by our present sentence which, seated in tribunal, we utter and pronounce in this writing; we denounce thee as a rotten member, and that you may not vitiate others, as cast out from the unity of the Church, separate from her Body, abandoned to the secular power as, indeed, by these presents, we do cast thee off, separate and abandon thee; - praying this same secular power, so far as concerns death and the mutilation of the limbs, to moderate its judgment towards thee, and, if true signs of penitence should appear in thee, [to permit] that the Sacrament of Penance be administered to thee.










    Offline MrsZ

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    « Reply #21 on: August 12, 2011, 02:28:29 PM »
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  • Wow, I had no idea.  And so much information!  Thanks for posting all that.   :smile:

    Offline Sigismund

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    « Reply #22 on: August 12, 2011, 08:25:00 PM »
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  • That was fascinating.  Thanks!
    Stir up within Thy Church, we beseech Thee, O Lord, the Spirit with which blessed Josaphat, Thy Martyr and Bishop, was filled, when he laid down his life for his sheep: so that, through his intercession, we too may be moved and strengthen by the same Spir