Author Topic: Women playing sports Working Out (Read 22704 times)

Telesphorus · « **Reply #45 on:** August 01, 2012, 04:00:45 PM »

Quote from: Scriptorium

And I don't have to take back everything to "Christendom." There was slavery in Christendom too, so everything wasn't rosy and perfect

There was slavery and women didn't play sports as much as men!

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I am not going to carbon copy everything from the middle ages to this time in terms of society.

You were the one saying that women playing sports is nothing new. Well, it is relatively new.

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Organized sports is a modern thing in itself besides.

Nonsense. Ever hear of the tournament?

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My basic point is women played sports in the past.

And you're trying to use it to justify what women do today in sports.

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Ireland had a vibrant Catholic society, and they were fine with women playing camogie.

Sports are not evil and there are many sports suitable for women but the idea that women should be raised participating in them as being vital for their social development is evil.

Scriptorium · « **Reply #46 on:** August 01, 2012, 06:42:19 PM »

Quote from: Telesphorus

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Organized sports is a modern thing in itself besides.

Nonsense. Ever hear of the tournament?

You know what I mean.

Quote from: Telesphorus

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My basic point is women played sports in the past.

And you're trying to use it to justify what women do today in sports.

Not what women do today, but that women can participate in sports, as well as vote, as well as go to school and be educated, as well as work, as well as learn to protect themselves, etc. If none of those things are a detriment to family life, then I can't see the problem. I think some trads have this vision, which really is not accurate, that a woman's ONLY place is the home. I know many trad women who do all these things and have healthy personal and family lives. Plus, sports are fun.

Quote from: Telesphorus

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Ireland had a vibrant Catholic society, and they were fine with women playing camogie.

Sports are not evil and there are many sports suitable for women but the idea that women should be raised participating in them as being vital for their social development is evil.

I didn't make that argument, so I don't know where that is coming from. Plus we can't broad-brush girls either as though they all want to play sports. Some girls are quite fine doing other things.

ServusSpiritusSancti · « **Reply #47 on:** August 01, 2012, 07:33:10 PM »

Quote from: Scriptorium

I think some trads have this vision, which really is not accurate, that a woman's ONLY place is the home. I know many trad women who do all these things and have healthy personal and family lives. Plus, sports are fun.

That is not a Catholic mindset. What you just wrote is extremely dangerous, not to mention false. The woman's place is at home PERIOD. The Catechism of the Council of Trent stated this specifically. You should look up what the Church teaches before just writing your opinion.

Jaynek · « **Reply #48 on:** August 01, 2012, 07:53:18 PM »

Quote from: SpiritusSanctus

Quote from: Scriptorium
I think some trads have this vision, which really is not accurate, that a woman's ONLY place is the home. I know many trad women who do all these things and have healthy personal and family lives. Plus, sports are fun.

That is not a Catholic mindset. What you just wrote is extremely dangerous, not to mention false. The woman's place is at home PERIOD. The Catechism of the Council of Trent stated this specifically. You should look up what the Church teaches before just writing your opinion.

This is what it says:

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Duties Of A Wife

On the other hand, the duties of a wife are thus summed up by the Prince of the Apostles: Let wives be subject to their husbands. that if any believe not the word, they may be won without the word by the conversation of the wives, considering your chaste conversation with fear. Let not their adorning be the outward plaiting of the hair, or the wearing of gold, or the putting on of apparel: but the hidden man of the heart in the incorruptibility of a quiet and meek spirit, which is rich in the sight of God. For after this manner heretofore the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection to their own husbands, as Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling hint lord.

To train their children in the practice of virtue and to pay particular attention to their domestic concerns should also be especial objects of their attention. The wife should love to remain at home, unless compelled by necessity to go out; and she should never presume to leave home without her husband's consent.

Again, and in this the conjugal union chiefly consists, let wives never forget that next to God they are to love their husbands, to esteem them above all others, yielding to them in all things not inconsistent with Christian piety, a willing and ready obedience.

Pius IX · « **Reply #49 on:** August 01, 2012, 08:01:57 PM »

There is nothing wrong with a woman exercising or working out. St. Pius X and Pope Pius XII rightfully commended sports and exercise for physical health. These activities can be done modestly.

ServusSpiritusSancti · « **Reply #50 on:** August 01, 2012, 08:59:08 PM »

Jaynek, I'm not sure how you interpret that, but it does affirm that women have no role outside the home. Popes Pius XI and Pius XII also both condemned the woman working outside the home.

ServusSpiritusSancti · « **Reply #51 on:** August 01, 2012, 09:03:24 PM »

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Communism is particularly characterized by the rejection of any link that binds the woman to the family and the home, and her emancipation is proclaimed as a basic principle.- Pope Pius XI

ServusSpiritusSancti · « **Reply #52 on:** August 01, 2012, 09:17:55 PM »

Thanks for posting that by the way, Jaynek. :)

Mithrandylan · « **Reply #53 on:** August 01, 2012, 09:23:40 PM »

I certainly wouldn't say it's sinful for women to play sports or work out. All things in moderation. Sports or exercise become sinful once more important things like family or prayer become subjugated to them. But that' doesn't just go for women, that's for anyone with a hobby.

Sports are certainly *less* important for women than men. Women are not naturally competitive or aggressive and thus aren't in "need" of a way to physically vent like men. Doesn't mean it's wrong to play them. Sports are a healthy interest for any person with the right direction.

As far as exercise, no problem here. Women who have the time and inclination ought to exercise. It keeps them busy (keeps anyone busy) and looking good.

As far as women and weights, again, no problem. Not sure if the people against women and weights understand that when women lift weights, they don't really build bulk or mass. They certainly *can* with the right approach, but what weights do for women more than anything is tone. Women who lift weights with that approach certainly gain a health benefit. And looks benefits.

My thoughts, anyways.

Jaynek · « **Reply #54 on:** August 02, 2012, 06:02:53 AM »

Quote from: SpiritusSanctus

Jaynek, I'm not sure how you interpret that, but it does affirm that women have no role outside the home. Popes Pius XI and Pius XII also both condemned the woman working outside the home.

There are important qualifiers in the Catechism that you do not seem to be taking into account: "unless compelled by necessity to go out; and she should never presume to leave home without her husband's consent."

Church teaching recognizes that a woman may be compelled by necessity to be outside the home and that her husband may permit this. While the ideal is for women to be at home, it is not as absolute as you were making it sound.

Jaynek · « **Reply #55 on:** August 02, 2012, 06:04:17 AM »

Quote from: SpiritusSanctus

Thanks for posting that by the way, Jaynek. :)

Well, someone here doesn't like it. I got a thumbs down for posting it and you got one for thanking me. :rolleyes:

Traditional Guy 20 · « **Reply #56 on:** August 02, 2012, 06:30:01 AM »

Quote from: wallflower

Today's sports-crazy world aside, (I agree it's a bit much), women need to exercise, even weights. You may not be sexist but you may misunderstand what it means to be feminine if it's leading you to think women don't need healthy competition and exercise as well (you too SS). That's not a gender thing, that is a human being thing, part of what makes us healthy and happy. Strength training for example helps protect a woman against osteoporosis as she ages. It helps women during pregnancy and in labor when they are strong and in good shape. It helps her have more energy for her daily duties. Most of us would be better wives and mothers in many ways for exercising. It doesn't take away from the traditional role at all. Ideally gyms would not be mixed, but as I said, modern world aside, we need to stay active and at more than just housekeeping in order to be healthy.

Usually I don't agree with the women on here but I have no problem with women being female athletes. I don't think women should life weights though, that is a masculine activity, as is football, basketball, baseball, and boxing. However physical attraction for women is not about the consumeristic tendencies in terms of fashion or the intellectual development but should be about physical beauty and that makes a healthy body come first.

Traditional Guy 20 · « **Reply #57 on:** August 02, 2012, 06:35:49 AM »

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Communism is particularly characterized by the rejection of any link that binds the woman to the family and the home, and her emancipation is proclaimed as a basic principle.- Pope Pius XI

That statement could also speak for global capitalism as well which sees women as emancipated from the family and home so that they can become means of production. Anyway yes women should stay in the home and have children.

Traditional Guy 20 · « **Reply #58 on:** August 02, 2012, 06:39:24 AM »

Quote from: wallflower

Today's sports-crazy world aside

Well the entertainment values might be a bit much but physical activity I would argue is more important than any intellectual development. The man who cannot defend himself cannot defend his future wife either. There is no need for one who is physically weak while intellectually strong for words or arguments will not back down an opponent.

Scriptorium · « **Reply #59 on:** August 02, 2012, 07:37:09 AM »

Quote from: SpiritusSanctus

That is not a Catholic mindset. What you just wrote is extremely dangerous, not to mention false. The woman's place is at home PERIOD. The Catechism of the Council of Trent stated this specifically. You should look up what the Church teaches before just writing your opinion.

You're overplaying your hand, as has already been established. Let's be clear, everyone's place is the home. The fact that men have to leave home for 8 to 10 or more hours per day to work is probably just as destructive to the family as mothers doing the same. Distant fathers is a proven contributor to same-sex attraction, for instance. And we needn't recite fully the complaints about dads coming home and expecting to be waited on hand and foot, and contributing little to rearing of the children because that isn't his "territory." It is an overly dichotomous view of home life. The fact that we think the place of the woman is in the home "period," but the man apparently is a globe-trotter is just wrong because it still drive a wedge between the man and the woman, as does the view that both are globe-trotters. Some men may be called to those responsibilities far from home or for long spans of time, but that is not the norm. The clear paradigm is man on the land (breadwinning), and woman with the children. Up to marriage it seems quite reasonable that there could be great latitude in their ability to cultivate skills outside of their parent's home. There are certain things which are proven situations which are good for humanity, like maintaining family homes instead of people single in apartments, but all these circuмstances are not sinful. A former boss of mine was over 40 and single. I can't fault her for wanting to have her own home, but she still is closely tied to her parents and sister, who live near-by. She's not under a man, and that is fine because she isn't trying to break down families. It was just an accident of her life.

I am not going to press this, but I wonder how many of these comments come from people married or who have grown female children. I am not saying you need to have these things to know, but some comments seem to be dictated from a sort of idealistic view with no regard for the reality of woman being actual humans and not abstract concepts. Women are not all the same. They have character and temperament just like men, and some women operate better outside of the physical structure of a home. There is a way to balance their desires with the requirements of benefit to family and society. Women and men should be home-centered.

Quote from: Traditional Guy 20

I don't think women should life weights though, that is a masculine activity, as is football, basketball, baseball, and boxing.

Please explain why these are masculine and not feminine activities.