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Author Topic: Women in University  (Read 8396 times)

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Offline amiga

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Women in University
« Reply #15 on: November 02, 2007, 12:57:17 AM »
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  • Ok, Ok... do not argue pls. I know this is quite a sensitive issue but please EVERYONE KEEP THEIR TEMPER!  I know we can all state our opinion in a way no one will be hurt. Please... I beg eveyone... Please...
    Christ on my daily round

    I pray each morn that I may not be blind
    To Christ, Who moves that day among my kind.
    I dare not turn a hungry man away,
    Lest I be leaving Him unfed today.
    I dare not slight some tattered, unclothed one,
    Lest I should fail


    Offline Kephapaulos

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    « Reply #16 on: November 02, 2007, 01:03:03 AM »
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  • Don't worry, amiga, it ends up being a common thing with the message boards when there are issues like this that come up. Logic gets thrown out the door, and emotionalism takes hold.
    "Non nobis, Domine, non nobis; sed nomini tuo da gloriam..." (Ps. 113:9)


    Offline amiga

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    « Reply #17 on: November 02, 2007, 01:37:48 AM »
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  • Quote from: MichaelSolimanto
    No woman can be forbidden, but discouraged for moral and societal reasons. First, many women get bigger ideas of themselves after a degree and struggle with the idea of being a stay at home mother, and secondly it may conflict with their husband if they cannot temper their pride if they feel he is intellectually superior (something I've seen many times).

    Lastly, all actions aim to one's perfection. If it is done to get a noble feminine career in nursing or in teaching I can see the need. Most people do it for career hunting and here there is a grave danger as people now place their careers above the good of the family. They will feel like they wasted time and money.

    On a different subject I don't think men or women should be going to universities unless they can be done online or in the proximity of their homes because of the great loss of innocence and Hell that goes on at most of them. Most people I knew from high school are avowed atheists, ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖs, deviants, or picked up other vices of some sort. Most of the ideological formation is anti-Catholic, feminist, egalitarian, and morally depraved. Most departments of philosophy hate the idea of truth (which is a paradox considering the subject) and they hurt the minds of youth because people think professors are so intelligent when in fact so many of them are idiots prancing around with agendas with easy to obtain PhDs.

    Never in the history of the world has young people picked up and ran off from home without being grounded in their finality of their state in life first, and even then it was rare. This was so that the wisdom of your family can help you in dark times with bad influences. Some I know even run to college to escape a bad family situation, and for this reason I could see it as something permissable, but only if the school was trying to have some semblance of a truly Catholic life like St. Mary's in Kansas.


    Thank you very much for this very detailed analysis! I now know my Catholic stand! Thanks again!!! God Bless!
    Christ on my daily round

    I pray each morn that I may not be blind
    To Christ, Who moves that day among my kind.
    I dare not turn a hungry man away,
    Lest I be leaving Him unfed today.
    I dare not slight some tattered, unclothed one,
    Lest I should fail

    Offline amiga

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    « Reply #18 on: November 02, 2007, 01:39:40 AM »
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  • Quote from: Kephapaulos
    Don't worry, amiga, it ends up being a common thing with the message boards when there are issues like this that come up. Logic gets thrown out the door, and emotionalism takes hold.


    yup, I agree....

    It is so bad!!! :cry:
    Christ on my daily round

    I pray each morn that I may not be blind
    To Christ, Who moves that day among my kind.
    I dare not turn a hungry man away,
    Lest I be leaving Him unfed today.
    I dare not slight some tattered, unclothed one,
    Lest I should fail

    Offline clare

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    « Reply #19 on: November 02, 2007, 04:34:15 AM »
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  • Quote from: MichaelSolimanto
    Quote from: erin is nice
    Only a prideful, insecure man would be resentful of his wife being educated.


    We all have pride and insecurities, it all depends on to what degree. To think it can't happen to real people and who have real problems is naive at best, just plain stupid at worst.


    You seem to be saying that an educated woman is an occasion of sin for men. The sins occasioned in this instance being pride and envy, rather than lust.


    Offline Dulcamara

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    « Reply #20 on: November 02, 2007, 12:41:33 PM »
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  •  The better question is WHY do women need to be educated? Why do they want to be? Is it because they have a family to support, and they must work? Ok, that's a good reason. Is it to become respected by the world and prove women are oh so much greater then men? Then obviously pride motivates it, and pride is a sin.

     There are legitimate reasons why some women need to be educated beyond high school. The world is such today that you need to work (even two jobs perhaps) just to live by yourself, let alone have a family. So there are cases in which it's a matter of survival, and there's nothing wrong with that. But the Catholic has to remember humility, whether they're a man or woman, and some people pursue careers for reasons of pride.

     Then there's another question outside of the whole man-woman issue that nobody virtually ever looks at. The question of VOCATION. Now by that I'm not talking about habits and cassocks. I'm talking about the reason which God, from eternity, had in mind to create YOU. The talents that he gave YOU, not everybody, but you among a select portion of people whom He meant to have those particular talents, and nobody else. Everybody can hold a crayon. Not everybody can draw above stick figure simplicity. There are far, far fewer Thomas Kinkades. This is what I'm talking about. And a lot of people never think about this because they are never told that it is, and should be a factor in choosing their career.

    Everybody wants the "good paying job" but... did God create us for the office? Or did He give us particular gifts, and intend that we use them for His purposes? The crisis in art (with this garbage being touted as art, such as the graffitied (sp?) urinal on display at a museum recently... is chiefly perpetuated precisely because so few people are willing to give up a high paying office job to perfect and give themselves over to a perhaps impoverished life nevertheless doing what God intended them to do with those talents. Art does not pay well in this sick world. You cannot have a nice house and a nice car on a writer or artist budget. And the effect has been, everybody abandons the arts for the office jobs, and the arts go to hell because we've happily handed them over to a godless lot in lieu of an easy chair and a big screen TV. Well, if the Catholics don't do their jobs by the talents God gave them, the atheists will do the job... just a little differently. And so we get the big bad media everybody laments now.

    The same is true in just about any other field. A person might have a vocation as a teacher... but if they can't handle the barbarian hordes they have to try to reach at great personal sacrifice, then what teachers take their places? Or in science? If no Catholic scientists have the guts to stand up and get pounded by the whole atheist scientific world, and be absolutely ridiculed for telling the truth, then the atheists will have little resistance in teaching their errors there. In psychology, people don't even pretend to challenge the errors. The whole "science" disregards many fundamental truths about human life, not the least of which is the existence of God, sin and the human soul. But unless Catholics are out there doing what they were MADE for, rather than just what they want or what's easy or what pays better, the godless masses are going to have free reign in every field, because the Catholics they meet there are probably largely not qualified to be there, and subsequently are easily overcome. The Catholic who tries to be an artist and isn't, will hardly strike a blow for art of Catholic quality.

    Vocation does not mean simply nun, monk, priest or married. What our vocation is, is the optimal road upon which to achieve our own salvation, and be the most in line with God's will that we can be. God gives us talents, and as the Bible suggests, He expects us to increase and multiply them accordingly... not to take an easy out, as they say, and get ourselves an office with a view. Work of that sort isn't even natural or healthy for the soul, let alone divinely ordained.

    The woman, AND the man, of today, would do well to step back and think about what it is they have in terms of talents and intellectual equipment... and dare I say... pray for God to make HIS will manifest? ... before running out and saying "I want to be THIS!" Well, the question with eternal implications is... does God want you to be it? Is this what God equipped you for, in your talents, personality, circuмstances, etc? Is this the handwriting of God you see scrawled across your whole life thus far?

    Most of us Catholics never, ever hear something like this... that there is a vocation from God for each of us, to some particular work, and that our duty is to discover it, and submit ourselves to it. Most of us are tossed out into life without any such sensible advice, because most of our parents were never fortunate enough to hear it either. Here's hoping a few more people will now be lucky enough to read this (as I was extremely lucky to hear it myself, albeit late), and will try to live by it.

     The greatest question in any problem, is pretty much always either that of God's will or of truth. Sometimes both. And that, I think, is a much bigger issue than trousers or skirts (even if that's part of the issue, since God's will has a say in everything).
    I renounce any and all of my former views against what the Church through Pope Leo XIII said, "This, then, is the teaching of the Catholic Church ...no one of the several forms of government is in itself condemned, inasmuch as none of them contains anythi

    Offline Miss_Fluffy

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    « Reply #21 on: November 02, 2007, 12:51:10 PM »
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  • Thanks for the post Dulcamara, you've given me things to think about.  :scratchchin:

    Offline gladius_veritatis

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    « Reply #22 on: November 02, 2007, 04:13:40 PM »
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  • Quote from: gilbertgea
    Only an anti-Catholic feminist would encourage women being educated beyond that which is necessary for her survival.


    This is ABSURD.
    "Fear God, and keep His commandments: for this is all man."


    Offline Gemma

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    « Reply #23 on: November 02, 2007, 04:18:20 PM »
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  • I liked your first comment better, Gladius, but agree wholeheartedly with the second.

    Offline gladius_veritatis

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    « Reply #24 on: November 02, 2007, 04:22:16 PM »
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  • I thought it best to eliminate anything personal (although accurate).
    "Fear God, and keep His commandments: for this is all man."

    Offline MichaelSolimanto

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    « Reply #25 on: November 02, 2007, 05:51:56 PM »
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  • Quote from: Clare
    Quote from: MichaelSolimanto
    Quote from: erin is nice
    Only a prideful, insecure man would be resentful of his wife being educated.


    We all have pride and insecurities, it all depends on to what degree. To think it can't happen to real people and who have real problems is naive at best, just plain stupid at worst.


    You seem to be saying that an educated woman is an occasion of sin for men. The sins occasioned in this instance being pride and envy, rather than lust.


    It depends on how you define educated. Education without intelligence is dangerous for men and women. Most schools teach education without intelligence. People may know a quote or a fact, but not why it's a fact or how we can know facts. True logic is not taught so education in the hands of such a person (as evinced in talking with "traditional" Catholics) is dangerous and it doesn't matter the gender.

    If wisdom is the unifying principle of education and the will is taught with the intellect there is no problem with higher education for men or women. In women though their principle defects are pride and vanity. If she is given a higher education and her vanity and pride is not tempered you have a raving monster who is doomed for divorce as her will is not trained. Pride is rarely seen by ourselves so if it were so that a women were brought forward in higher education it would be under the recommendation of a good superior (her father or a priest) who would make sure that we realize that "knowledge puffeth up" and having knowledge for knowledge's sake is vanity. It must serve a higher purpose such as self-edification or the edification of others. This holds true for men as well.

    So in a sense a higher education without recourse to the ideas of self-edification or edifying others is a sin for everyone who endeavors to learn for it's own sake. It must be pragmatic (for work) or for the better understanding of truth for our soul. This is not true in many fields of education which lead on a road of work for money's sake without due reflection to one's state in life and the role you are to play as to your vocation.

    Because vanity and pride are the predominant fault to women a higher education can and frequently does become an occasion of sin, but it does not necessarily follow that it is per se which is an absurdity. I see nothing wrong with higher education in the traditional quadrivium of education in the field for teaching which is feminine, and also if a woman was a nun. I see nothing wrong with her learning philosophy and theology if it helps learn the humility to the truth. In essence there is great discernment involved and most of the time it should be avoided because in the case of predominant faults we must avoid them when we can because as St. Paul reminds us that anyone who thinks they can stand should be careful because they will fall.

    St. Phillip Neri said those who entered Heaven were the cowards to the occasions of sin. If only such wisdom was heeded.
    God bless,
    Michael Solimanto


    Offline clare

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    « Reply #26 on: November 02, 2007, 05:55:35 PM »
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  • Quote from: MichaelSolimanto
    It depends on how you define educated. Education without intelligence is dangerous for men and women.

    I'm intelligent without being educated!

     :rahrah:

    I know the difference. Intelligence is a capacity for knowledge.


    Offline MichaelSolimanto

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    « Reply #27 on: November 02, 2007, 11:21:12 PM »
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  • Quote from: Clare
    I'm intelligent without being educated!


    You certainly act like your educated and shouldn't because you don't know what you are talking about in matters of feminity or intelligence.

    Quote
    I know the difference. Intelligence is a capacity for knowledge.


    You are incorrect (which again proves my point). Intelligence is the faculty of understanding. Knowledge as a capacity is cerebral and can be parroted by parrots. The ability to understand that knowledge is the intelligence. Knowledge can be perceptual or conceptual. Intelligence knows and understands the difference of distinguishing ideas clearly. I may know the word man, but the idea is to be understood. Obviously the complexity of ideas becomes more complicated when you get into discursive premises and make conclusions.

    It's pride to think of yourself higher than what you are. To make such statements over and over again shows a high degree of arrogance, which is usually preceded by ignorance. Sorry if that sounds harsh, but I'm telling you out of charity.

    My point was a little education without intelligence is like a wildman in civil society with a shotgun. You think you know what you are talking about but misleading others because you lack the humility to realize you don't understand (intelligence) your knowledge.

    An example on a very practical and real level is I don't know how intelligent it is to use a swastika as your avatar when it can be misconstrued as an attachment to the Third Reich and nαzιsm, which is clearly connects to as a symbol of their ideology which you may knowingly or unknowingly support.
    God bless,
    Michael Solimanto

    Offline Incognito

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    « Reply #28 on: November 02, 2007, 11:40:47 PM »
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  • Can I ask that the ladies lay off of Micheal, please?  He is trying to help, can you try to keep that in mind?  I have almost always found what he has written on these forums to be helpful and often edifying.  Can he be abrasive at times?  Sure, I've told him that before.  Just because you may not like the way a message is delivered, don't dismiss what he is saying out of hand.  He clearly loves the Church and cares about souls.  Perhaps, instead of attacking him, you could read what he writes a couple of times through and try to understand what he is saying without getting defensive?  
    "If you do not live as you believe you will believe as you live."

    Offline Gemma

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    « Reply #29 on: November 02, 2007, 11:48:55 PM »
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  • Quote
    It's pride to think of yourself higher than what you are. To make such statements over and over again shows a high degree of arrogance, which is usually preceded by ignorance. Sorry if that sounds harsh, but I'm telling you out of charity.


    Then, I'm telling you out of charity, that your posts literally ooze of arrogance and condescension. Perhaps you really would catch more flies with honey rather than vinegar?  :confused1: