Author Topic: Women going to college? (Read 24922 times)

Caraffa · « **Reply #60 on:** April 23, 2012, 11:58:30 PM »

Quote from: Clelia

I only agree with that because it is true of many women. NOT ALL.

The Church does NOT TEACH that this is THE ONLY role of women!
It teaches to be fruitful and multiply, but if we do not find a good and loving mate right away, we ought to get some kind of education in the best possible school armed with the True Faith and be a true helpmate to our husbands if the need arises.

One also does not have to go college in order to be "educated." We must understand the word education in a Catholic sense and not in a modern way.

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Or, to be a good Doctor like St. Giana Molla.

The St. Gianna Molla's are the expections, not the rule. The enthusiasts would have us believe that such things are possible for all women, but such is not the case.

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A highly educated and trained Heart Surgeon saved my Dad's life about 15 years ago. I was grateful.

And your father's soul?

Telesphorus · « **Reply #61 on:** April 24, 2012, 01:17:11 AM »

Quote from: egoveritas

I am strictly speaking of single women in my last comment when I say that I find no evil in a college education.

That I doubt very much. Perhaps you don't wish to see any evil in it?

Because the reality of what goes in colleges is very obvious. It was obvious to my mother in the early 70s. I'm sure it's ten times as pernicious now. if you think godless companions and their values are not harmful, you are deluding yourself.

MrsZ · « **Reply #62 on:** April 24, 2012, 05:57:37 PM »

I have been and still am very concerned about negative influences on my children...at jobs, or college ...or really anywhere. I don't want to send our daughter off to war, or even to college (Catholic or not) hundreds or thousands of miles from where we live.

But as I mentioned earlier in this thread: we live where we live. The options are very limited. We don't have family around, we have no Catholic friends (who aren't worldly and sending their kids to college miles away)...There is no Traditional Latin Mass parish within 250 miles from here.

I have been beseeching God for years to change our circuмstances and He has continued to will or allow this situation to remain. My task all this time is to stop railing against Him, and trust in His Divine Plan. Maybe it's been my lack of trust all this time that has caused us to find no opportunities that would change our circuмstances.

Sede Catholic · « **Reply #63 on:** April 24, 2012, 07:45:58 PM »

Yes, Mrs. Z,

You are right in your concern.

College is another very bad option for your daughter.

These places are incredibly anti-Catholic.

If she is troubled in her soul now, then think what could happen to her precious soul at college.

They could turn her against the Faith.

Then there is the totally immoral and carnal atmosphere at colleges.

It is good that you are not hoping college is the answer.

It could start new problems instead of solving the present ones.

Has she ever thought of the religious life?

Are things this bad because she was intended by God for the religious life, and she has not understood?

I do not know the answer to that at all. I am just wondering if it is a possibility.

But I am only a layman. And I am just wondering.

How happy if your daughter does have a vocation.

The Council of Trent infallibly teaches us that marriage is not to be preferred to the state of virginity:

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If anyone saith that the marriage state is to be preferred before the state of virginity, let him be anathema.

Sede Catholic.

Clelia · « **Reply #64 on:** April 24, 2012, 08:19:47 PM »

Quote from: Caraffa

Quote from: Clelia

I only agree with that because it is true of many women. NOT ALL.

The Church does NOT TEACH that this is THE ONLY role of women!
It teaches to be fruitful and multiply, but if we do not find a good and loving mate right away, we ought to get some kind of education in the best possible school armed with the True Faith and be a true helpmate to our husbands if the need arises.

One also does not have to go college in order to be "educated." We must understand the word education in a Catholic sense and not in a modern way.

Quote
Or, to be a good Doctor like St. Giana Molla.

The St. Gianna Molla's are the expections, not the rule. The enthusiasts would have us believe that such things are possible for all women, but such is not the case.

Quote
A highly educated and trained Heart Surgeon saved my Dad's life about 15 years ago. I was grateful.

And your father's soul?

Who said anything about "The Rule?" My point is there are possibilities for women to further their education for the good of their souls, their families, and society. God calls us in different ways to serve.

BTW: my Father's soul is a work in progress like you, me, any everyone else. What are you trying to do, challenge his Faith because a woman Doctor saved His life by the grace of God? Mighty uppity.

Dad was a seminarian who left because of the garbage that existed even back on the 40's. Obviously, he wasn't meant to be a priest, but, he lives an life as a devoted Catholic and CREDO is his motto. He reads and studies his Vulgate and prayers in Latin, and has been a good Catholic man, husband, and Father. He goes to Confession like every other struggling Catholic and puts his Traditional Catholic pants on like you and everybody else.

I didn't realize a female doctor would cause so much scrutiny and judgement of his soul for allowing an educated woman to be his surgeon.

I am not uncharitable, here - I am not a feminist, either.

People need to answer God's call for worthy service. Indeed, marriage is to beget babies and train souls. If there is no marriage and those people choose a holy life of chaste service, that is not a sin. That service may entail training. Get over it. God's Will be done; NOT our own "superiority". Men and women are not equal; but St. Catherine of Sienna might have a thing or two to say to you men.

Clelia · « **Reply #65 on:** April 24, 2012, 08:38:55 PM »

Quote from: Sede Catholic

Clelia,

You say that you are not a Feminist.

You possibly genuinely mean that.

But you have imbibed Feminist principles.

You are simply wrong in some of what you have posted on this thread.

Try to see the truth.

Pray to the Immaculate Heart of Mary for the grace to see the truth and to accept it.

Pray to God the Holy Ghost for guidance.

I do hope that you come to understand what God really intends for girls and women in life.

God Bless you, Clelia.

I am NOT a feminist!

I went to college in the 70's, and I AGREE that it CAN be a cesspool of filth and erroneous teaching to boot.

YET - the subject here seems to have drifted from the quality of college in general to women not being given the opportunity to answer God's call for her which may not be to marry just anybody at 18. There are schools that are better than others, and good and holy Catholic women have been able to learn to be excellent Catholic nurses, doctors, social workers, AND good mothers and NOT ALL WOMEN WHO GO TO COLLEGE are putting off marriage and family - THAT is the point: not all women loose their souls IF they are fortified with The True Faith and PRAYER. I am not addressing those women who are faint of heart. weak in faith, or have not the True Religion.

You men make it sound like women are not worth educating, rather than give rational caveats and warnings that indeed would be helpful to readers here, instead of one-size pantyhose fits all.

There are the notions of ideal and real. In the real world, not all women find AN ACCEPTABLE MATE either at 18, 20, or 30, if at all, because there are many more pagan jerks walking the earth than good Traditional Catholic Men, like YOU all profess to be.

Wouldn't it be wonderful if there were more men like YOU for a Traditional Catholic young lady to choose from. Otherwise, she must learn to support herself, perhaps help her future husband even if only part-time while raising the children, and maybe she will not find a suitable and loving mate at all. Maybe she will choose to be chaste and not selfish, but serving in her field. Maybe many realities that do not fit your one-way thinking.

What about saints who did not copulate? Or separate like St Nilus and his wife to be married religious after having (at least as far as I can remember reading) two children, one went with him to a monastery, and the other with mom, I believe.

Reality; not idealism.

God Bless you all.

Caraffa · « **Reply #66 on:** April 24, 2012, 08:47:50 PM »

Quote from: Clelia

BTW: my Father's soul is a work in progress like you, me, any everyone else. What are you trying to do, challenge his Faith because a woman Doctor saved His life by the grace of God? Mighty uppity.

No that was not my point. My point was closer to that of Queen Blanche's famous statement about mortal sin to King St. Louis IX. You said that she saved his life, but my thought was, what about his soul, did she save that? I'd also warn about being uncritical about modern technology and how it is used to upset the natural, creational order.

Clelia · « **Reply #67 on:** April 24, 2012, 08:53:02 PM »

The example of the Good Samaritan shows that it would be up to the injured man to save his own soul; it's not The GS's job.

My Dad is responsible for his own soul. Not the doctor.

BTW: we are using technology right now....

I am outta here - time to snooze.

I shan't return to this discussion - I have to return to my duties as helpmate.

May The Lord Bless and keep you all.

Caraffa · « **Reply #68 on:** April 24, 2012, 08:55:27 PM »

Quote from: Clelia

BTW: we are using technology right now....

But we can still be critical of it and the effects that it can have on people.

Clelia · « **Reply #69 on:** April 24, 2012, 08:59:04 PM »

True. Anything (and any concept) can be used properly or abused, don't you agree?

Good night, sir.

Sede Catholic · « **Reply #70 on:** April 24, 2012, 09:12:37 PM »

Quote from: Clelia

Quote from: Sede Catholic
Clelia,

You say that you are not a Feminist.

You possibly genuinely mean that.

But you have imbibed Feminist principles.

You are simply wrong in some of what you have posted on this thread.

Try to see the truth.

Pray to the Immaculate Heart of Mary for the grace to see the truth and to accept it.

Pray to God the Holy Ghost for guidance.

I do hope that you come to understand what God really intends for girls and women in life.

God Bless you, Clelia.

I am NOT a feminist!

I went to college in the 70's, and I AGREE that it CAN be a cesspool of filth and erroneous teaching to boot.

...You men make it sound like women are not worth educating...

God Bless you all.

Dear Clelia,

God Bless you as well.

Women are worth much more than educating in a way that only does harm.

My point was that you have imbibed some of the lies told to you.

I do not disparage women at all.

It is just frustrating that they are being led away from what God has planned for

them by all these lies and

deceptions.

I think you have many good points and I hope that you can iron out the confusion that these liars have instilled

into your soul.

God Bless you, Clelia.

ServusSpiritusSancti · « **Reply #71 on:** April 24, 2012, 09:33:47 PM »

Quote from: Clelia

Who said anything about "The Rule?" My point is there are possibilities for women to further their education for the good of their souls, their families, and society. God calls us in different ways to serve.

Again, women who intend to marry should not go to college.

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Men and women are not equal; but St. Catherine of Sienna might have a thing or two to say to you men.

She'd have a thing or two to say to all the career women out there, I think.

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There are schools that are better than others, and good and holy Catholic women have been able to learn to be excellent Catholic nurses, doctors, social workers, AND good mothers and NOT ALL WOMEN WHO GO TO COLLEGE are putting off marriage and family - THAT is the point: not all women loose their souls IF they are fortified with The True Faith and PRAYER.

I personally think the average Catholic woman would be better of marrying at a young age than going to college. Just because she is a good Catholic does not mean she should put herself in such an ocassion of sin. I can say I'm a good Catholic all I want.... wouldn't change the fact that I shouldn't go to a bar, for instance.

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You men make it sound like women are not worth educating, rather than give rational caveats and warnings that indeed would be helpful to readers here, instead of one-size pantyhose fits all.

There have been plenty of women (and men) throughout history who received proper education without attending college.

Quote

Wouldn't it be wonderful if there were more men like YOU for a Traditional Catholic young lady to choose from. Otherwise, she must learn to support herself, perhaps help her future husband even if only part-time while raising the children, and maybe she will not find a suitable and loving mate at all. Maybe she will choose to be chaste and not selfish, but serving in her field. Maybe many realities that do not fit your one-way thinking.

This is simply an uncharitable ad hominem attack on us for saying women should not go to college. We all know you're not a feminist, but you are unintentionally supporting a view that feminists themselves hold. We're trying to help you realize why that is wrong, not put you down.

ServusSpiritusSancti · « **Reply #72 on:** April 24, 2012, 10:21:57 PM »

Clelia, you seem like a kind woman that strives to be a good Catholic, but we are just trying to help you realize that women who intend to marry shouldn't go to college. In fact, college should pretty much be avoided by both men and women, as Spork pointed out on page one of this thread. That's not to say there aren't certain situations where people have to attend, but in general it is an ocassion of sin.

Clelia · « **Reply #73 on:** April 25, 2012, 05:37:39 PM »

I think you guys need to attend courses in reality.

But, getting to know this much about you, being practiced in the art of politely but firmly putting down women and making sure they stay in their place utilizing just the right little slams and labels so we might cry and run away from a discussion that is simply too much for us little women who have been imbibed with liberal ideas has been very enlightening.

Save it for yourselves.

And have a nice day.

Telesphorus · « **Reply #74 on:** April 25, 2012, 05:54:03 PM »

Quote from: Clelia

I think you guys need to attend courses in reality.

But, getting to know this much about you, being practiced in the art of politely but firmly putting down women and making sure they stay in their place utilizing just the right little slams and labels so we might cry and run away from a discussion that is simply too much for us little women who have been imbibed with liberal ideas has been very enlightening.

Save it for yourselves.

And have a nice day.

Clelia, let's talk about the reality today.

1) The reality today is that most young men are treated very badly by most young women, and have fewer opportunities for earning a respectable family wage than before.

2) The reality today is that most young women delay marriage a long time, and are not chaste before marriage. Not just a matter of impure thoughts or bad movies or magazines and novels, but giving themselves to men not their husbands. The excuse given for delaying marriage is that they need "education" and "career" - and that they "have their whole life in front of them" - what's the reality? The reality is that most, at least a plurality of women are interested in the sort of men who will never marry them, but who will use them as harlots.

3) The birth-rate is lower than ever before

4) The rate of illegitimacy is higher than ever before.

5) the rate at which people live in marriage is lower than before

6) the rate of divorce has never been higher.

Men have nothing to gain and only to lose by marrying unchaste women who want a man to take care of them and a baby or two. The laws are absolutely stacked against them.

No respectable man wants the sort of woman who would have rejected him 10 years ago, but now wants him as a meal ticket and as a way to get pregnant. Only a fool will marry a woman like that. And to think there are wicked people trying to shame men into that!

Now these are generalizations. They obviously don't apply to everyone. The idea that women should not go to college is a generalization. It need not apply to everyone.

But it's common sense. What is she doing there?

A young woman who wants to marry is at the peak of her desirability. She only loses desirability as she waits. So why do women wait? Because no man will marry them? That is a rationalization. There are men who will marry them. The men they desire as young women are not the sort of men who will commit to women like that. More often than not. Indeed, it's so bad I think that some of these women will reject a man if they think he's in love with her, whereas when they didn't think that, they sought his attention! Loving a girl has become "creepy"!