Author Topic: Wise educated and holy Catholics - the Majority is always right (Read 656 times)

Matthew · « **on:** July 13, 2021, 12:39:58 PM »

Some might say the opposite, that the majority is always wrong. But no, ALL THINGS BEING EQUAL (absence of Je**sh propaganda, slavery to passions, cօռspιʀαcʏ to promote errors) the majority is usually CORRECT.

When you're talking about Catholics who are BOTH A) well-informed AND B) holy, serving God first at all costs -- I'll go with the majority every time.
I'm talking about 100 wise, intelligent, and holy Catholics. When the lion's share of them go direction A, I'll certainly be following them.

What are the chances they are wrong? How could the vast majority be wrong? Again, I'm not talking about following raw numbers. The majority of mankind at large can be misled by any number of ways. Being brought up in paganism or a false religion, for example. I'm talking about those who HAVE THE FAITH, and have committed to giving up anything to follow God and practice that Faith. Not just men of good-will and holiness, but actually MANAGED to discover that faith/truth and grasp onto it. If back in the 70s/80s/90s about 90 out of 100 decided that the SSPX was the safest path, who am I to disagree?

The Resistance is the minority now. But almost ALL current SSPX attendees are stopping up their ears to the truth -- to the changes and contradictions -- of what's going on. They are not well-informed. And their putting God first (objective holiness) is certainly in question: they are not willing to give up their conveniently located weekly Mass. They can't/won't homeschool, because they don't want to give up their free time (spent watching TV?). They want their convenience and ease. They refuse to go to the catacombs for Mass. They have inordinate attachments. They want the world to NOT call them "extremist", "radical", "cօռspιʀαcʏ theorist" or "crazy". See how they are compromised, and therefore why their "vote" doesn't count? Actually, the majority of SSPXers are being "disqualified" from consideration only because they are WEAK and/or they're not really choosing the neo-SSPX over the Resistance position. They want their Mass. They would follow the Resistance if they could, but there's not a chapel in their area.

But when CathInfo gives someone 12+ downvotes and almost no upvotes, the person is *always* a problem. Why is that?

A certain % of people are very suggestible. And most people are sheep. But if you exclude the sheep and those of bad will, leaving you with 5%, 10%, 20% (?) of people putting God first above all, and honestly looking for the most prudent, safest path for their families to keep the Faith -- and 85% of THAT ELITE GROUP go in one direction -- is that the direction to go? If not, why not?

Matthew · « **Reply #1 on:** July 13, 2021, 12:47:24 PM »

And don't give me that agnostic nonsense "How can we know truth"?

When I see SSPXers taking their families to waterparks -- I know they're wrong. I just know it. No one is going to gaslight me into thinking I can't tell worldly from putting God first. I know darn well who I should exclude from my consideration.

Jesus Himself taught that we are, EACH ONE OF US, competent to Judge the Fruits. Anyone want to tell Jesus He is wrong?

Matto · « **Reply #2 on:** July 13, 2021, 12:52:00 PM »

So are you now arguing that most Catholics in the world should be homealoners? And I haven't gotten any emails from the closest resistance chapel.

2Vermont · « **Reply #3 on:** July 13, 2021, 12:57:23 PM »

I am confused by your post(s). In one breath you're saying the majority is always right, but then you say that all of the SSPXers are doing the wrong thing(s). Which is it? If the SSPX are no longer the majority to follow and the Resistance is in the minority, then who are these people who are right and should be followed?

Matthew · « **Reply #4 on:** July 13, 2021, 12:59:05 PM »

Quote from: Matto on July 13, 2021, 12:52:00 PM

So are you now arguing that most Catholics in the world should be homealoners? And I haven't gotten any emails from the closest resistance chapel.

No I'm not. If I didn't include C) and D), you'd be absolutely correct.

I'll clarify here: I'm not going to follow the majority of SSPXers in their path (continuing to attend SSPX), because they are disqualified for one or more reasons:

A) Spiritual/moral failings: lack of putting God first, cowardice, laziness, apathy, worldliness
B) Educational failings: lack of being informed -- whether vincible OR invincible ignorance of the situation
C) not actually choosing SSPX over Resistance -- they just want to go to Mass
D) weakness, albeit understandable -- needing Mass, place for kids to go to school, chapel with good population to find a spouse, etc.

Matthew · « **Reply #5 on:** July 13, 2021, 01:00:41 PM »

Quote from: 2Vermont on July 13, 2021, 12:57:23 PM

If the SSPX are no longer the majority to follow and the Resistance is in the minority, then who are these people who are right and should be followed?

In short, you have to look at WISE, HOLY CATHOLICS who aren't being forced by necessity (needing to send kids to private school, youth desperate to find a spouse, Catholics desperate for a place to attend Mass, etc.).

Read my post above this one, for more details.

But yes, EVERY SINGLE PERSON who meets my description above that I find going a different way than me, I immediately become nervous, and make sure they fit into one of those categories. If I start running into smart, intelligent, educated, holy Catholics doing something different from me -- I need to know why. Maybe I'm wrong! I need to be able to dismiss their prudential judgment -- oh, they just want a place for Mass. Oh, they need a school to send their kids to. Oh, they're a young person and Resistance chapels don't have enough/any young people to court. Stuff like that.

Cera · « **Reply #6 on:** July 13, 2021, 01:41:25 PM »

Quote from: Matthew on July 13, 2021, 01:00:41 PM

In short, you have to look at WISE, HOLY CATHOLICS who aren't being forced by necessity (needing to send kids to private school, youth desperate to find a spouse, Catholics desperate for a place to attend Mass, etc.).

Read my post above this one, for more details.

But yes, EVERY SINGLE PERSON who meets my description above that I find going a different way than me, I immediately become nervous, and make sure they fit into one of those categories. If I start running into smart, intelligent, educated, holy Catholics doing something different from me -- I need to know why. Maybe I'm wrong! I need to be able to dismiss their prudential judgment -- oh, they just want a place for Mass. Oh, they need a school to send their kids to. Oh, they're a young person and Resistance chapels don't have enough/any young people to court. Stuff like that.

When you put it that way, it just sounds like healthy Catholic humility to me. Humility is the beginning of wisdom.

2Vermont · « **Reply #7 on:** July 13, 2021, 04:48:52 PM »

Quote from: Matthew on July 13, 2021, 01:00:41 PM

In short, you have to look at WISE, HOLY CATHOLICS who aren't being forced by necessity (needing to send kids to private school, youth desperate to find a spouse, Catholics desperate for a place to attend Mass, etc.).

Read my post above this one, for more details.

But yes, EVERY SINGLE PERSON who meets my description above that I find going a different way than me, I immediately become nervous, and make sure they fit into one of those categories. If I start running into smart, intelligent, educated, holy Catholics doing something different from me -- I need to know why. Maybe I'm wrong! I need to be able to dismiss their prudential judgment -- oh, they just want a place for Mass. Oh, they need a school to send their kids to. Oh, they're a young person and Resistance chapels don't have enough/any young people to court. Stuff like that.

OK. If you're talking about individual Catholics, then I see your point. It seemed that your introduction of the OP in the other thread was going in a different direction.

I am thankful that I have good Catholics and priests at my chapel. There are certainly times when, by their words or actions (or lack thereof ;-), they show me that I can learn to be a better Catholic from them.

SimpleMan · « **Reply #8 on:** July 13, 2021, 06:24:09 PM »

Quote from: Matthew on July 13, 2021, 12:47:24 PM

And don't give me that agnostic nonsense "How can we know truth"?

When I see SSPXers taking their families to waterparks -- I know they're wrong. I just know it. No one is going to gaslight me into thinking I can't tell worldly from putting God first. I know darn well who I should exclude from my consideration.

Jesus Himself taught that we are, EACH ONE OF US, competent to Judge the Fruits. Anyone want to tell Jesus He is wrong?

If you don't mind my asking, aside from the possibility of seeing women in swimwear that offends grievously against Catholic modesty, what is wrong with waterparks? Following that reasoning, it seems that one could never go to any public pool or to a public beach.

If it's a family venue, I have to doubt that the more skimpy and immodest of women's swimwear fashion would work at a waterpark. Not to be crude, but it could easily come off, with all the splashing, sliding, water jets, and so on. Most such swimwear is seldom worn in the water or for swimming anyway. It's for show. Moms with several kids generally don't dress that provocatively for sun-and-water venues.

The problem I have with waterparks is the price. Both Great Wolf Lodge and the various Legoland hotels are way, way out of our budget. We have to go places we can afford.

Matto · « **Reply #9 on:** July 13, 2021, 06:31:19 PM »

Quote from: SimpleMan on July 13, 2021, 06:24:09 PM

If you don't mind my asking, aside from the possibility of seeing women in swimwear that offends grievously against Catholic modesty, what is wrong with waterparks? Following that reasoning, it seems that one could never go to any public pool or to a public beach.

If the woman grievously offends against modesty, it can be a grievous sin to look at her unless necessary. So it would be a near occasion of mortal sin. Unless you and everyone with you have such control over your urges that you never lust. YES. Men should never go to a public pool or public beach where many of the women, including beautiful young women, are wearing bikinis. It's like turning on pornography and watching it while trying not to lust. One does not have to go to such places. It is bad enough walking down a normal street in the summer time. There should be segregated beaches and pools so people could go swimming without having to deal with looking at the opposite sex in immodest attire.

Limoges · « **Reply #10 on:** July 13, 2021, 06:41:08 PM »

"Wise, educated and holy Catholics" ... LOL

Matthew 7:21-23

Matthew 24:24

Luke 18:8

SimpleMan · « **Reply #11 on:** July 13, 2021, 07:58:42 PM »

Quote from: Matto on July 13, 2021, 06:31:19 PM

If the woman grievously offends against modesty, it can be a grievous sin to look at her unless necessary. So it would be a near occasion of mortal sin. Unless you and everyone with you have such control over your urges that you never lust. YES. Men should never go to a public pool or public beach where many of the women, including beautiful young women, are wearing bikinis. It's like turning on pornography and watching it while trying not to lust. One does not have to go to such places. It is bad enough walking down a normal street in the summer time. There should be segregated beaches and pools so people could go swimming without having to deal with looking at the opposite sex in immodest attire.

I am 60 years old and was with my wife, a very beautiful woman, for 14 years. I suppose the combination of age and familiarity tends to tamp urges down a bit. I would not have been terribly affected at the sight of a scantily dressed woman at age 40, or age 50, or now. I can imagine that this causes more of a problem for single men, especially those who are single and have little hope of ever being married, i.e., "incels". In other words, I can imagine that it could bear on a young man's mind so much, having to look at that which he may never be able to have, that a beach or pool could be a near occasion of at least internal mortal sin. So maybe it's a little hard for me to stand back and see it from the standpoint of those whose urges are stronger than mine, and possibly not able to be requited.

As I've said before in these forums, men need to lower their aesthetic expectations, and women need to lower their financial expectations. Until then, there will be a lot of involuntary celibacy, and not a few lifelong spinsters. I've known of both.

ByzCat3000 · « **Reply #12 on:** July 15, 2021, 08:25:40 AM »

//The Resistance is the minority now. But almost ALL current SSPX attendees are stopping up their ears to the truth -- to the changes and contradictions -- of what's going on. They are not well-informed. And their putting God first (objective holiness) is certainly in question: they are not willing to give up their conveniently located weekly Mass. They can't/won't homeschool, because they don't want to give up their free time (spent watching TV?). They want their convenience and ease. They refuse to go to the catacombs for Mass. They have inordinate attachments. They want the world to NOT call them "extremist", "radical", "cօռspιʀαcʏ theorist" or "crazy". See how they are compromised, and therefore why their "vote" doesn't count? Actually, the majority of SSPXers are being "disqualified" from consideration only because they are WEAK and/or they're not really choosing the neo-SSPX over the Resistance position. They want their Mass. They would follow the Resistance if they could, but there's not a chapel in their area.

But when CathInfo gives someone 12+ downvotes and almost no upvotes, the person is *always* a problem. Why is that?

A certain % of people are very suggestible. And most people are sheep. But if you exclude the sheep and those of bad will, leaving you with 5%, 10%, 20% (?) of people putting God first above all, and honestly looking for the most prudent, safest path for their families to keep the Faith -- and 85% of THAT ELITE GROUP go in one direction -- is that the direction to go? If not, why not?
//

Is there something wrong with choosing to go to an SSPX mass each week if you don't have a Resistance chapel? Even if you think the Resistance is *correct* why would that be wrong? Does the Resistance say don't attend SSPX at all?

Furthermore I'm curious if you're considering the "weak" to be sheep or of bad will here.

Matthew · « **Reply #13 on:** July 15, 2021, 04:26:33 PM »

Quote from: ByzCat3000 on July 15, 2021, 08:25:40 AM

Is there something wrong with choosing to go to an SSPX mass each week if you don't have a Resistance chapel? Even if you think the Resistance is *correct* why would that be wrong? Does the Resistance say don't attend SSPX at all?

Furthermore I'm curious if you're considering the "weak" to be sheep or of bad will here.

It's a prudential decision for each head of household. I, and anyone else, can't pretend it's a matter of dogma.
If I bothered to create additional categories, I'm literally distinguishing, you can be pretty sure I'm distinguishing, between the two. In other words, they're not the same thing.
If I said "liberals, conservatives, and communists" I'm implying that communists are NOT the same as liberals or conservatives. Otherwise I would be quite redundant, don't you think?

Author Topic: Wise educated and holy Catholics - the Majority is always right (Read 656 times)

Matthew

Wise educated and holy Catholics - the Majority is always right

Matthew

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Matto

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2Vermont

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Matthew

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Matthew

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Cera

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2Vermont

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SimpleMan

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Matto

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Limoges

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SimpleMan

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ByzCat3000

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Matthew

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